SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[BrightBow]

Or the first year of Melee where people considered Zelda top 5.

That was actually a thing? What did people see in her? Besides her down-b of course.

[Dotty]

It doesn't help that Corrin looks like shit.

Corrin looks pretty good actually!

SideB killed Marth at 85% offstage in one video.

uTilt and dTilt have, like, no knockback even at really high percents, so there's lots of combo potential there.

nAir and fAir seem really lagless, so same deal there.

uAir can kill at reasonable percents (dTilt > uAir looking good right now)

I mean, sure they aren't as flashy as Bayonetta and they almost certainly won't be top tier, but they don't seem bad at all.

[General Horace]

i'm no expert but i'm guessing people were just bad and lightning kick is honestly ridiculously strong and not that hard to hit (before all the movement options were discovered anyway)

EDIT: TAKE THAT JEDI

I guess she was like Bowser in 3ds when people thought he was good for some reason.

Edited January 31, 2016 by General Horace

[Jedi]

That was actually a thing? What did people see in her? Besides her down-b of course.

Lightning Kicks and her ground game was considered good at the time, But then Ken entered the scene and taught people how dominant the aerial game was (along with the advent of Dash Dancing, Wave Dashing etc etc), Zelda quickly fell fell fell fell.

Edit: Damn it Horace.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Jedi

[Jave]

A character that's not even released yet is being called OP?

HOLY SHIT THAT'S GOTTA BE A NEW ONE

[The DanMan]

Roy is a fairly combo based character, do you dislike that too? I mean most of his mileage in fights are off his combo game.

No, because it's nowhere near as crazy as Bayonetta and not a key design point of his. He also doesn't have an "I win at middling percents button" (witch time->charged smash attack at 70%-ish) and poor recovery to balance out his rush-down, in-your-face-design.

A character that's not even released yet is being called OP?

HOLY SHIT THAT'S GOTTA BE A NEW ONE

I'd just like to get this out there: the only character who I have called OP pre-release is Ryu.

Ryu is easily in the top ten of the cast.

[Jedi]

No, because it's nowhere near as crazy as Bayonetta and not a key design point of his. He also doesn't have an "I win at middling percents button" (witch time->charged smash attack at 70%-ish) and poor recovery to balance out his rush-down, in-your-face-design.

I'd just like to get this out there: the only character who I have called OP pre-release is Ryu.

Ryu is easily in the top ten of the cast.

Witch Time isn't going to be as good as it seems it is in competitive play I don't think. Plus that Corrin had really bad DI by the looks of it.

Despite this, Ryu doesn't have the best results in the world atm and has few players, then again his tech level is pretty high, he still has weaknesses. I mean one of the players here on SF Knife, handily beat Trela's Ryu with Link in a socal tourney.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Jedi

[Jave]

I'll have to see it myself first, but Witch Time seems that it needs to be used PRECISELY in order to connect, otherwise Bat Within is triggered. It also seems pointless to attempt it at low percentages, since the short duration barely seems to give Bayo time to do anything. I also doubt her combos are easy to master.

She definitely feels High Tier, but OP? Nah.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Witch Time isn't going to be as good as it seems it is in competitive play I don't think. Plus that Corrin had really bad DI by the looks of it.

As one of the people who says "We'll just have to wait and see." It's pretty simple to get this counter if your opponent not on the floor ready to grab. They can attack as they retreat from the air. I catch these commonly.

I agree. High Tier, maybe. OP? We'll see. (Probably won't, because Sakurai makes a lot of balanced DLC fighters except Mew2)

Are we still just gonna ignore the fact that Bayo just gave a 20% beat down on Corrin doh... using only Jab? Reminds me of Mac back in the day.

[solrocknroll]

yeah well even if Bayonetta's OP I'm still using her in every match here on SF online whether people like it or not oops

Corrin is okay. I'm sure he's Mid Tier.

but still Bayonetta's the best ever so

[Jedi]

As one of the people who says "We'll just have to wait and see." It's pretty simple to get this counter if your opponent not on the floor ready to grab. They can attack as they retreat from the air. I catch these commonly.

I agree. High Tier, maybe. OP? We'll see. (Probably won't, because Sakurai makes a lot of balanced DLC fighters except Mew2)

Well Mewtwo is considered higher mid tier nowadays by a few, even possibly high tier in some Japanese circles atm.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Jedi

[Busterman64]

Jeez, the night all this is happening (the DLC release info and nico match) I decide to go to sleep early (and usually go to sleep pretty late)...dang it.

Oh well...got to see it now though. Bayonetta looks pretty cool and witchtime looks as deadly as I thought. Corrin looks pretty good too, but I didn't see enough of Corrin to get a grasp of how he seemed (playstyle wise), but that's what Feb 3'rd is for. :P

I still think Witch Time is cheap and disgusting; just don't spam it and you've got a massive opportunity to kill your opponent when you do use it.

I think the underlying issue is that the 3rd party DLC have underlying gimmicks that make them so different from every fighter and extremely powerful in their own right. Ryu is firmly at the top of the cast (where I'm expecting Bayonetta to join him), and Cloud is looking like he's high-tier.

To me, ideally everyone should feel like a mid-tier character; not the best, not the worst.

That said, Corrin's recovery got a massive buff since the direct, and that side-smash comes out pretty darn fast.

EDIT: But they decreased movement speed. *Sigh* I guess first part characters have to have obvious weaknesses.

I'll just post this from Smashboards:

"Slow run speed, mediocre air speed, bad throws, neutral b easy to deal with... [/size]"

I'm seeing people compare them to "Pit without his f-throw". Glad to see I kept my expectations low.

Witch Time isn't going to be as good as it seems it is in competitive play I don't think. Plus that Corrin had really bad DI by the looks of it.

Despite this, Ryu doesn't have the best results in the world atm and has few players, then again his tech level is pretty high, he still has weaknesses. I mean one of the players here on SF Knife, handily beat Trela's Ryu with Link in a socal tourney.

I'll have to see it myself first, but Witch Time seems that it needs to be used PRECISELY in order to connect, otherwise Bat Within is triggered. It also seems pointless to attempt it at low percentages, since the short duration barely seems to give Bayo time to do anything. I also doubt her combos are easy to master.

She definitely feels High Tier, but OP? Nah.

Witch time may be more of a mind game thing (if you use it right and don't spam it). Unless you have projectiles, you need to get in close. You won't have to worry a whole lot until maybe 80% and up. At that point, you need to do 3 things:

1.) Stick more on the ground.

2.) If in the air, try to be really high in the air to avoid an up smash.

3.) Try to hit fast and pressure your opponent.

(I'm trying to sound all competitive and stuff. :3 )

Timeing seems pretty important to witch time, so unless you time it before you're hit, you'll get bat within instead.

Also...is it just me or do Corrin and Bayonetta counter one another a bit... (Maybe just me...)

Bayonetta does seem pretty top tier, but not "Metaknight in brawl" tier.

[Jedi]

Bayonetta does seem pretty top tier, but not "Metaknight in brawl" tier.

I highly doubt she'll dethrone Sheik.

[Ema Skye]

Side note: Marth (and presumably Lucina) got a 3% damage buff on FAir.

It also seems like Bayo doesn't have much in terms of kill moves outside of Smashes. Seems like Witch Time -> Smash Attack will be her main way of killing. That said, it looks like she has Falcon's UAir so we'll see. Her damage output is ridiculous though (13% on Fair and her Jab does 19%).

Edited January 31, 2016 by Scrub Lord Doof

[Jedi]

Side note: Marth (and presumably Lucina) got a 3% damage buff on FAir.

It also seems like Bayo doesn't have much in terms of kill moves outside of Smashes. Seems like Witch Time -> Smash Attack will be her main way of killing. That said, it looks like she has Falcon's UAir so we'll see.

Noticed that, Marth and Lucina might be able to actually kill with Fair now, considering % buffs mean KB buffs. I mean the only other thing that could have been a benefit would be to make fair faster and do less % so you could do the ye olden, fair to fair that Marth was known for. But this may work out.

Also yeah, Bayonetta doesn't seem to have much in terms of KO potential, she'll probably be akin to Pikachu (Except with a much bigger hitbox), able to deal a fair bit of damage quickly, but struggles to get KO's, her moveset seems to lack gimp moves outside of her guns too. Considering her movement doesn't seem to be all that fast.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Jedi

[Dotty]

Side note: Marth (and presumably Lucina) got a 3% damage buff on FAir.

It's 2%, I think. It only did 13% in that match because of the freshness bonus, it does 12% afterwards.

I wish they'd address Marcina's real problems instead of fairly (ba-dum-tsss) useless damage buffs.

[Jedi]

It's 2%, I think. It only did 13% in that match because of the freshness bonus, it does 12% afterwards.

I wish they'd address Marcina's real problems instead of fairly (ba-dum-tsss) useless damage buffs.

Yes like those grabs lacking combos outside of like low % dthrow to bair.

I miss when I could fthrow to a tipper.

[Ema Skye]

Considering her movement doesn't seem to be all that fast.

It's not fast but it's not slow either. Seems around Mario speed to me. She's also got side B which looks like it moves faster than running.

Also want to note that Sakurai made sure to mention that she's light, which we kinda anticipated.

[Jedi]

It's not fast but it's not slow either. Seems around Mario speed to me. She's also got side B which looks like it moves faster than running.

Also want to note that Sakurai made sure to mention that she's light, which we kinda anticipated.

Tis true, the side B does look like it helps quite a bit.

Also big and light huh, will it effect her as much as Mewtwo? (Even despite his really good buffs that remains his main flaw). Rosalina suffers from it as well

Edited January 31, 2016 by Jedi

[Great Geargia Gateway]

What Marth really needs is to combo easier. Less end lag on Fair would work well into more Fair combo's instead of strings.

[Ema Skye]

Also big and light huh, will it effect her as much as Mewtwo? (Even despite his really good buffs that remains his main flaw). Rosalina suffers from it as well

I would legit be surprised if Bayo is the same weight class as Mewtwo and Rosalina.

Sheik, ZSS and Pikachu are light and they're fine.

[Jedi]

From what people are finding, Bayonetta's jab and grab are frame 9

That's very bad. That's worse than Zelda.

Also resident Serenes Smasher (And top player in Puerto Rico PKL) thinks that Bayo looks meh and Corrin looks potentially high/top tier.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Jedi

[Comet]

zelda's grab is frame 10 and her jab is frame 11, so she's actually worse!

greninja edits are too good

Edited February 1, 2016 by Comet

[Jedi]

zelda's grab is frame 13 and her jab is frame 6 i think

Ok, well the jab is bad in comparison at least, my mistake lol.

[scrub_Lord]

From what people are finding, Bayonetta's jab and grab are frame 9

That's very bad. That's worse than Zelda.

Also resident Serenes Smasher (And top player in Puerto Rico PKL) thinks that Bayo looks meh and Corrin looks potentially high/top tier.

Honestly to me, both, Cory and Bayo *look* low high tier or high mid tier. Edited February 1, 2016 by scrub_Lord