PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Soule]

Eheh no offense meant man. I'm super laid back. But its true that smash was not developed to be a competitive game XD. It just turned out to be an awesome one. In fact, it was almost not released in the US at all :P. Thank god it was and went on to be one of my favorite childhood games lol.

Also, i'm not elitist... the thought kinda makes me sad x.x... I'm just enthusiastic! Stuff is neat.

While I'm here, why do people run Sage leader / Sniper support for VVDS+? Wouldent focusing on physical attacks or magical attacks have higher DPS (DPT???)? Or is that for safety in case you run a cross a res sponge or def sponge so you can still kill it in one go?

Edited October 1, 2014 by Soule

[YayForYuffie]

First of all, thank you for the advice on pairings (especially given my many instances of critical research failure *coughBerserkerStahl!Geromecough*).

Just for the sake of clarification, I chose Fred!Inigo as I recall reading that he was one of the only offspring of Frederick with a non-terrible speed mod, and a nice str. mod. I thought he'd make a good Galeforce Wyvern Lord/Berserker husband for ladies who enjoy stabbing people instead of blasting them with magic

My Avatar has a +Spd/-Luck asset flaw combination, and after checking out the resulting stats, Virion!Yarne!Morgan seems to far surpass Fred!Inigo!Morgan, with a very nice +7 Skill and +10 Speed modifiers at the expense of a -1 magic mod (eh), and a -2 luck mod.

[Czar_Yoshi]

While I'm here, why do people run Sage leader / Sniper support for VVDS+? Wouldent focusing on physical attacks or magical attacks have higher DPS (DPT???)? Or is that for safety in case you run a cross a res sponge or def sponge so you can still kill it in one go?

They usually don't. Sniper x Sage is used when you want magical dual strikes on a Longbow (DS+ optional, it's possible to reach 100% DS without it) or if you're trying to do a VV setup without DS+ (Sniper is the only thing that will be getting Sage to 100% DS without DS+). But using a VV Sniper/Sage setup with DS+ is kind of a waste.

First of all, thank you for the advice on pairings (especially given my many instances of critical research failure *coughBerserkerStahl!Geromecough*).

Just for the sake of clarification, I chose Fred!Inigo as I recall reading that he was one of the only offspring of Frederick with a non-terrible speed mod, and a nice str. mod. I thought he'd make a good Galeforce Wyvern Lord/Berserker husband for ladies who enjoy stabbing people instead of blasting them with magic

My Avatar has a +Spd/-Luck asset flaw combination, and after checking out the resulting stats, Virion!Yarne!Morgan seems to far surpass Fred!Inigo!Morgan, with a very nice +7 Skill and +10 Speed modifiers at the expense of a -1 magic mod (eh), and a -2 luck mod.

Yarne has epic mods in general. His physical Morgans will usually be a cut above the rest. Fred!Inigo's Spd isn't much of a selling point, he just doesn't mind Fred's -2 as much compared to the other children. I guess you can make him a Wyvern, but his usual build is as a dodgetank (Fred!Inigo has a ton of +Avo skills and is one of the few units in the game capable of functionally reaching the maximum Avo threshold).

[PsychicFlamingo]

Since rate my pairings seems like a fairly good idea, I'll give it a shot here.

Henry!Owain as a sage

Lon'qu! Inigo as a hero

Chrom x Sumia!Lucina as a great lord/Cynthia as a falcon knight

Libra!Morgan as a grandmaster

Donnel!Severa as a disgraceful failure hero

Ricken!Laurent as a sage

Freddy!Brady as a battle monk

Vaike!Gerome as a Warrior

Stahl!Kjelle as a general

Gaius!Noire as a sniper

Kellam!Yarne as a taguel

I am aware that a lot of these pairings are pretty bad (Chrom x Sumia is canon, I ship Sully and Stahl, I was experimenting with a more defensive Morgan, and Donnel being Severa's father is an ungodly waste) but a lot of them I am genuinely curious about.

I was experimenting with a utility Owain by giving him sorcerer and dork knight access, and Gerome gets a rather monstrous 55 strength, something I just couldn't resist.

Edited October 1, 2014 by PsychicFlamingo

[Diabeasty]

Just for the sake of clarification, I chose Fred!Inigo as I recall reading that he was one of the only offspring of Frederick with a non-terrible speed mod, and a nice str. mod. I thought he'd make a good Galeforce Wyvern Lord/Berserker husband for ladies who enjoy stabbing people instead of blasting them with magic

If you pair Wyvern Lord Freddynigo up with an Assassin he can reach 69 speed(unless my math is off), which is nice. I like that setup a lot.

As a general question, how good are Sniper x Sniper pairs? I've been thinking of ways that I could make Robin!Nah work, and I realize that if I had an A rank support with +Skl Robin and Sumia!Lucina I could reach 100% DS if both of them were snipers.

[Duke of Dozel]

Snipers in general shouldn't be at the forefront of fights, especially in harder difficulties. Snipers make incredible supports because of their insane SKL boost and nice STR/SPD, but with a lack of 1 range, they just can't make the cut unless they have Galeforce.

[Alastor15243]

Since rate my pairings seems like a fairly good idea, I'll give it a shot here.

Henry!Owain as a sage Pretty good, and a perfectly balanced str/mag dread fighter.

Lon'qu! Inigo as a hero Inigo won't have a reliable proc, which is really important

Chrom x Sumia!Lucina as a great lord/Cynthia as a falcon knight Chrom x Sumia's fantastic, especially since it passes down the awesome aether skill to another child. Great Lord is basically Hero with lances, so I've heard it's pretty good. But definitely go Dark Flier instead of Falcon knight, it's a better class in general.

Libra!Morgan as a grandmaster There's pretty much no good reason to do a second generation male morgan who isn't Chrom's son (and even then many would argue that's a dubious idea). Robin's partner should either offer Morgan an otherwise inaccessible skill (rightful king, shadowgift, etc.), epic mods, or another avatar child. LIbra offers none of the above.

Donnel!Severa as a disgraceful failure hero Donnel's mods kinda suck and there's almost total class overlap. AND you're keeping Donnel from one of the three mothers whose daughters he can give galeforce.

Ricken!Laurent as a sage See, THIS is the sort of character who you should have your FeMU marry, namely if you have a good magic mod on your FeMU, because then Morgan will have an amazing magic modifier.

Freddy!Brady as a battle monk Brady's got all the skills he needs, all he needs are good mods. Frederick does not give remotely good mods for a mage.

Vaike!Gerome as a Warrior Like Laurent, if your Robin's mods lean towards physical, marry this guy, your Morgan will be a physical powerhouse.

Stahl!Kjelle as a general Stahl's a great father for any physical kid, but not Kjelle. Kjelle has everything she needs (And in fact has most of what Stahl offers besides archer) except for galeforce, which only Donnel, Gaius or a male Avatar can give.

Gaius!Noire as a sniper This one is great. Gaius is generally recommended to go with Tharja, while Donnel is recommended to go with Kjelle. I'd switch Stahl with Donnel and make Stahl!Severa and Donnel!Kjelle.

Kellam!Yarne as a taguel Taguel kinda sucks big time, and Kellam doesn't give Yarne the only thing he really needs, which is hit+20 so he can utterly rock house as a berserker hard support.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Alastor15243

[isetrh]

What I need to decide is whether to have Nah be a tank or a skirmisher. I don't have to give up too much to make her a skirmisher, but what I'm wondering is if there's any point to adding an 8th Apo pair, since that doesn't leave much room for Staffbots. If she is going to be a tank, am I wrong in thinking that Fred would be the best non-Avatar dad for her? He gives PavGis and DG+, and she already has healing from innate Lifetaker.

Snipers in general shouldn't be at the forefront of fights, especially in harder difficulties. Snipers make incredible supports because of their insane SKL boost and nice STR/SPD, but with a lack of 1 range, they just can't make the cut unless they have Galeforce.

What. Snipers are great leads--they have Longbow access and high proc rates. And "harder difficulties" is where Bow users are at their best because of Counter.

[Alastor15243]

What I need to decide is whether to have Nah be a tank or a skirmisher. I don't have to give up too much to make her a skirmisher, but what I'm wondering is if there's any point to adding an 8th Apo pair, since that doesn't leave much room for Staffbots. If she is going to be a tank, am I wrong in thinking that Fred would be the best non-Avatar dad for her? He gives PavGis and DG+, and she already has healing from innate Lifetaker.

What. Snipers are great leads--they have Longbow access and high proc rates. And "harder difficulties" is where Bow users are at their best because of Counter.

Well if you want to go pavgis, Freddy's the only father besides a male avatar who can give both Aegis and Pavise to a kid. And since Nowi has neither, it's pretty much your only option. But I'm not sure tanking's a good option on Apotheosis. I tried it with my Chrom!Morgan, who had +6 skill and rightful king, and it was of dubious help...

[isetrh]

Tank Nah wouldn't be for Apo. That's why I mentioned skirmisher Nah--she would be for Apo. PavGis isn't mandatory, but it looks useful outside of Apo.

About your advice to PsychicFlammingo, just a couple things look off to me. It's not my place to say Dread Fighter Henry!Owain is a bad option, but it's definitely very non-standard. Yarne doesn't need Hit +20 as badly if he's in a high Skill class. I completely agree with you on Donnel!Severa. As far as I can tell, Donnel!Severa is the closest thing there is to a bad Severa. He doesn't give her good mods, another faire, a harder hitting Lance class, or even the option to use Luna. He doesn't make her any more powerful or add the slightest bit of versitality.

[Alastor15243]

Tank Nah wouldn't be for Apo. That's why I mentioned skirmisher Nah--she would be for Apo. PavGis isn't mandatory, but it looks useful outside of Apo.

About your advice to PsychicFlammingo, just a couple things look off to me. It's not my place to say Dread Fighter Henry!Owain is a bad option, but it's definitely very non-standard. Yarne doesn't need Hit +20 as badly if he's in a high Skill class. I completely agree with you on Donnel!Severa. As far as I can tell, Donnel!Severa is the closest thing there is to a bad Severa. He doesn't give her good mods, another faire, a harder hitting Lance class, or even the option to use Luna. He doesn't make her any more powerful or add the slightest bit of versitality.

Yeah I suppose it is a bit non-standard to have Owain as a dread fighter. It's just kind of a rule of mine that Owain must always have a sword hand to twitch, so I always wind up making him one, since it's a good class anyway.

[Czar_Yoshi]

If you pair Wyvern Lord Freddynigo up with an Assassin he can reach 69 speed(unless my math is off), which is nice. I like that setup a lot.

As a general question, how good are Sniper x Sniper pairs? I've been thinking of ways that I could make Robin!Nah work, and I realize that if I had an A rank support with +Skl Robin and Sumia!Lucina I could reach 100% DS if both of them were snipers.

38(base) +0(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +9(Assassin) +2(tonic) =69. He's in the clear.

He probably won't be fighting Thronie and his ilk too much though due to 1-range being a bad idea against those guys. Maybe if you forge a Tomahawk he could do it.

Sniper x Sniper is interesting, though I tend to avoid it due to Snipers having poor distribution and being very valuable elsewhere. For your purpose though, Snipers aren't quite required- +Skl Avatar x Sumia!Lucina have a maximum Skl of 164 (including everything except Defender), which gives you 4 extra to play around with. Unfortunately you have to either spend all of that on dropping Lucina's Skl+2 and All+2 to fit in the rest of her skills, so they're still your best option.

Oh, speaking of Snipers and DS, I found time to work on my 100% DS team some more. I realized that I forgot about Stahl when making my last build (which is a huge oversight) and managed to milk him for a second pair that can go 75 Spd Wyvern outside of 100% mode, two extra turns of Agg support, three extra turns of Longbow leads, and more Atk on Yarne (which is pretty good for one unit and really tells you how tight things are). I also moved a pair of Boots. The new team:

Stahl!Inigo@Sniper (LB/All+2/GF/Agg/Defender) x Virion!Nah@Sniper-B (LB/BF/All+2/Str+2/Skl+2)

Gaius!Kjelle@Assassin (LB/All+2/GF/SF/Deliverer) x Vaike!Yarne@Assassin (LB/Agg/All+2/Str+2/filler)

Chrom!Cynthia@Falco (LB/All+2/Defender/GF/LF) x Avatar@Sniper (LB/Agg/BF/All+2/Skl+2)

Ricken!Brady@Sniper-B (LB/Agg/All+2/GF/Skl+2) x Fred!Noire@Sniper (LB/BF/All+2/Skl+2/filler)

Lon'qu!Severa@Assassin (LB/GF/All+2/Deliverer/SF) x Gregor!Laurent@Assassin (LB/Agg/SF/All+2/AT)

Morgan@Falco (LB/All+2/Skl+2/GF/LF) x Henry!Gerome@Assassin (LB/Agg/All+2/Deliverer/filler)

If anyone spots anything I overlooked, please let me know. There are still a few things bugging me (namely the lack of Faires on Yarne and Gerome) that I want to get sorted out before I build this.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Sorin]

So, after a long avoidance from this thread in hopes I'd never ask for more advice, I return. I'm doing a Lunatic run with my headcanon pairings. Postgame will be done, as well as grinding. Since I pretty much know the best the kids can do when maximized with most of these parents, I was wondering if we could keep them as close to base class as possible(Aside from those specified, though I already have a class in mind for them.) Be warned, one of those is REALLY unique(in the sense I never see it).

So to sum up my rambling, can someone tell me the best the kids can do in my given classes with that parent? It'd be very much appreciated. Oh, and I have all DLC except the one for All+2

MaMU(Spd+Lck-)!Severa: Hero, paired with Inigo

Sumia!Lucina: Great Lord, paired with Laurent

Chrom!Cynthia: Dark Flier, paired with Gerome

Cordelia!Morgan: Dark Flier, prob gonna be paired with Brady

Lon'qu!Owain: Swordsmaster(Yes, shoot me), not sure who to pair with

Libra!Inigo: Hero(Since, I've done Sage before), paired with Severa

Stahl!Yarne: Taguel, not sure who to pair with

Ricken!Laurent: Sage, paired with Lucina

Gaius!Gerome: Wyvern Lord, paired with Cynthia

Henry!Noire: Sorcerer, not sure who to pair with

Virion!Nah: Manakete, prob gonna drop

Vaike!Kjelle: Paladin(Or Hero), not sure who to pair with

Gregor!Brady: Sage(Or DF), prob gonna be with Morgan

Edited October 1, 2014 by Sorin

[Czar_Yoshi]

MaMU(Spd+Lck-)!Severa: Hero, paired with Inigo Pretty good.

Sumia!Lucina: Great Lord, paired with Laurent For canon classes it's good, but you've got a support boost mismatch there.

Chrom!Cynthia: Dark Flier, paired with Gerome Can you go Falco instead? It would be better.

Cordelia!Morgan: Dark Flier, prob gonna be paired with Brady Should work.

Lon'qu!Owain: Swordsmaster(Yes, shoot me), not sure who to pair with Herp derp. He gets Noire, Nah or Kjelle. Kjelle looks best out of those.

Libra!Inigo: Hero(Since, I've done Sage before), paired with Severa

Stahl!Yarne: Taguel, not sure who to pair with Taguel = rubbish. But Stahl!Yarne is awesome if you can change him to... Pretty much anything but SM/Trickster.

Ricken!Laurent: Sage, paired with Lucina

Gaius!Gerome: Wyvern Lord, paired with Cynthia

Henry!Noire: Sorcerer, not sure who to pair with Eh, maybe.

Virion!Nah: Manakete, prob gonna drop

Vaike!Kjelle: Paladin(Or Hero), not sure who to pair with A Galeboy. Any Galeboy.

Gregor!Brady: Sage(Or DF), prob gonna be with Morgan Iffy but not bad.

So, you've got a really lot of girls without Galeforce... And you're marrying all your Galeboys to girls that do have it. That's going to get half your team benched pretty quickly. Aside from Owain, you don't have anybody open for Kjelle/Noire/Nah to marry (and one of them needs to be benched anyway because you're marrying Avatar first gen), and there's also nobody left for Yarne.

[Diabeasty]

I've been comparing Vaike!Severa@Axefaire Hero to Lon'Qu!Severa@Lancefaire Wyvern Lord and overall they seem pretty similar stat-wise. They both should have the same damage per hit, the only real differences are that Hero has 2 more skill and higher speed(doesn't matter, they both can reach 75) along with Axefaire(better vs lances, which are more common), while Wyvern Lord has higher mov and a little bit better accuracy.

So really my only question is, does having axes end up being a bigger advantage than the extra mov and accuracy? I can give her boots which somewhat mitigates the issue of being less mobile. She also has anathema to give her a better hit rate and crit(along with helping the backline, which would be virion!yarne), but that may be unnecessary. Obviously I'm only comparing these two setups specifically, with the same skillsets of LB/Proc/Faire/GF/Fill.

[Alastor15243]

I've been comparing Vaike!Severa@Axefaire Hero to Lon'Qu!Severa@Lancefaire Wyvern Lord and overall they seem pretty similar stat-wise. They both should have the same damage per hit, the only real differences are that Hero has 2 more skill and higher speed(doesn't matter, they both can reach 75) along with Axefaire(better vs lances, which are more common), while Wyvern Lord has higher mov and a little bit better accuracy.

So really my only question is, does having axes end up being a bigger advantage than the extra mov and accuracy? I can give her boots which somewhat mitigates the issue of being less mobile. She also has anathema to give her a better hit rate and crit(along with helping the backline, which would be virion!yarne), but that may be unnecessary. Obviously I'm only comparing these two setups specifically, with the same skillsets of LB/Proc/Faire/GF/Fill.

Another difference is procs. Vaike!Severa has Vengance and Luna, while Lon'qu!Severa just has Vengance, and Vengance requires setup, which at times means baiting a single enemy to attack you in EP, which renders the extra move in those situations meaningless.

[Czar_Yoshi]

8 flying Mov while maintaining high Atk is pretty much the point of Wyverns. Severa just happens to be a good candidate.

[Sorin]

So, you've got a really lot of girls without Galeforce... And you're marrying all your Galeboys to girls that do have it. That's going to get half your team benched pretty quickly. Aside from Owain, you don't have anybody open for Kjelle/Noire/Nah to marry (and one of them needs to be benched anyway because you're marrying Avatar first gen), and there's also nobody left for Yarne.

Okay, so what if I opened up all the second gen pairings to change? How much would that effect? Also, yeah, I'll probably end up changing Yarne's final class but I was interested to know what he can manage.

[Diabeasty]

Alright, so looking at +Skl Robin!Nah/Nowi!Morgan, with the right pair ups she should actually be able to overcome her -1 speed. As an assassin with a berserker pair up I believe she can actually hit 75 speed. Problem is, there's not actually very many good berserkers (or physical male children in general) to pair her with. So, going down the magic route might actually be better in this case. With +Mag/-Def Robin her mods end up being 2 Str, 6 Mag, 0 Skl, and 1 Spd. Pretty similar to Ricken!Owain. Only issue is I'd lose out on 100% DS with Lucina, but a magic based Robin could support a Sage lucina. Anyone else have some thoughts?

Just for context, MaMu x Nowi was something that I always wanted to do, but was never really sure how to make it work. This would probably be an idea for a later playthrough, since I've pretty much got my current one all planned out.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Diabeasty

[PsychicFlamingo]

Thank you for the quick reply, as always.

As I agreed myself, I realised Donnel!Severa was despicable, to be honest, the only thing I did it for was aptitude, which is only good on a non-grind luna/luna+ playthrough. However, Donnel is practically a meatshield in those difficulties, so my choice remains unjustified.

The overall plan for my endgame team was a large portion of my team being very tanky, preferably with pavise, to run the front and sages and other healbots in the back. That was my plan of thought in giving Morgan early recovery access and making Kellam!Yarne and Freddy!Brady as a war cleric. I do plan to change Yarne out of a taguel, since that full support berserker sounds rather interesting, but I stand by a few things, such as falcon knights>dark fliers and so on.

Thanks again for the support, you guys never cease to amaze.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Okay, so what if I opened up all the second gen pairings to change? How much would that effect? Also, yeah, I'll probably end up changing Yarne's final class but I was interested to know what he can manage.

Quite a bit. Severa/Morgan are good, Cynthia/Lucina are good, Owain is still iffy, Inigo is good, Yarne is good, Laurent is good, Gerome will work but is hogging a very valuable father, Noire is iffy but can be useful with some creativity, Virion!Nah is in the same boat as Noire but better equipped to become useful, so is Kjelle, and Brady is lackluster but not bad.

Alright, so looking at +Skl Robin!Nah/Nowi!Morgan, with the right pair ups she should actually be able to overcome her -1 speed. As an assassin with a berserker pair up I believe she can actually hit 75 speed. Problem is, there's not actually very many good berserkers (or physical male children in general) to pair her with. So, going down the magic route might actually be better in this case. With +Mag/-Def Robin her mods end up being 2 Str, 6 Mag, 0 Skl, and 1 Spd. Pretty similar to Ricken!Owain. Only issue is I'd lose out on 100% DS with Lucina, but a magic based Robin could support a Sage lucina. Anyone else have some thoughts?

75 Spd isn't important to have on all your units, it's only important to have on a few pairs and the upper target to shoot for. Don't jump through any unnecessary hoops to get it.

And yeah, -1 Spd isn't really a big deal. Remember, it's very hard to make something in Awakening that's actively bad, just things that don't perform as well as they could.

[Duke of Dozel]

Another difference is procs. Vaike!Severa has Vengance and Luna, while Lon'qu!Severa just has Vengance, and Vengance requires setup, which at times means baiting a single enemy to attack you in EP, which renders the extra move in those situations meaningless.

I didn't know Vaike gave the cavalier/knight line to Severa. Also Vaike passes the merc line to Severa, which means overlap.

The only thing you'd want to go Lon'qu!Severa for is insane speed that can double even the fastest enemies in Apo. She lacks great procs like Luna and V/V isn't recommended due to her low magic mod. That's not saying she's bad, but there are some things you want.

Assassin and Wyvern Lord are your best bet, because Assassin allows Severa to make the best use of her two best stats (Speed/Skill) while Wyvern Lord gives her the STR and DEF she needs to be a great physical fighter without her being slow unlike many other child characters.

I also think her SKL and SPD also cancel out the weaknesses Sorcerer gives, but she wont excel there much, even wiith Sol at her desposel.

[Alastor15243]

I didn't know Vaike gave the cavalier/knight line to Severa. Also Vaike passes the merc line to Severa, which means overlap.

Yep, for Vaike's daughters, Fighter and Barbarian are replaced with Knight and Mercenary.

[Armanyte]

Since we're on the topic of Severa. I married Cordelia (I'll report to the gallows later) and I'm trying to figure out how to build her. MU is +Spd/-Lck and this is my planned build:

MU!Severa @ Hero/Dark Flier

-Limit Breaker

-Galeforce

-Luna/Ignis

-Swordfaire/Tomefaire/(insert whatever -faire here)

She'd going to be paired with a Lon'qu!Inigo so my real question, outside of general advice is which class should I pick and whether to use Luna or Ignis. Thanks for your help!

[Alastor15243]

Since we're on the topic of Severa. I married Cordelia (I'll report to the gallows later) and I'm trying to figure out how to build her. MU is +Spd/-Lck and this is my planned build:

MU!Severa @ Hero/Dark Flier

-Limit Breaker

-Galeforce

-Luna/Ignis

-Swordfaire/Tomefaire/(insert whatever -faire here)

She'd going to be paired with a Lon'qu!Inigo so my real question, outside of general advice is which class should I pick and whether to use Luna or Ignis. Thanks for your help!

The general consensus is that girls with the avatar gene should use BOTH, for the obscene proc success rate it offers. Boys with the avatar gene can also use both, but when they don't have both a pavise and an aegis weapon, they're generally better off using just one and a faire and aggressor.

But if you REALLY must choose one, pick Luna if you go hero, Ignis if you go dark flier.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Alastor15243