Czar_Yoshi Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 TAlso, don't forget that Virion!Yarne can make a nice sniper for 100% DS setups. Only nice? He's like the best DS% booster in the game. Fred!Inigo has Paladin and Wyvern for extra final classes which are fun to have in non-Apo postgame and might be handy there too. Deliverer is also fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) So I just realized that if I switch Gaius and Donnel around, Kjelle, as a bride paired up with Dread Fighter Ricken!Owain... Gaius!Kjelle @ Bride has 47 speed. + 10 from LB, 10 from Rallies, 2 from tonics, and 6 from Dread Fighter pairup equals exactly 75 speed. So if I dropped Noire and maybe Laurent, I'd have room for staffbots instead of forcing some of my attack units to do that, and to top it off, Kjelle would be another 75 speed unit, although I'd lose Armsthrift so she wouldn't be able to screw around with legendary weapons outside of Apo... And as another argument against this, Gaius!Noire @ Trickster paired up with Laurent @ Sage is way better than Owain (owing to having a partner with magical dual strikes) at taking down Thronie. What do you guys think? Edited January 19, 2015 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckc22 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Ok so I think I've been swayed into: Sumia!Lucina Chrom!Cynthia Lucina!Morgan Donnel!Kjelle Gaius!Noire Ricken!Owain Henry!Nah Lonqu!Severa Gregor!Laurent Fred!Inigo Stahl!Gerome Virion!Yarne Libra!Brady Now I just have to pair the kids up -_- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Ok so I think I've been swayed into: Sumia!Lucina Chrom!Cynthia Lucina!Morgan Donnel!Kjelle Gaius!Noire Ricken!Owain Henry!Nah Lonqu!Severa Gregor!Laurent Fred!Inigo Stahl!Gerome Virion!Yarne Libra!Brady Now I just have to pair the kids up -_- What asset you pick and who you pair Morgan up with are directly connected, so you should probably work that out first. What kind of class do you plan on making Morgan? Edited January 19, 2015 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckc22 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I'll definitely choose def as the flaw since it doesn't hurt any of the first four stats. In terms of asset I'd lean towards skill or speed. Think I'm leaning towards speed. For Mamu it's not going to change much either way. for Morgan its the difference between 2/1/8/5 and 0/1/6/9. The latter gives her a lot more options for 75 speed pairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I'll definitely choose def as the flaw since it doesn't hurt any of the first four stats. In terms of asset I'd lean towards skill or speed. Think I'm leaning towards speed. For Mamu it's not going to change much either way. for Morgan its the difference between 2/1/8/5 and 0/1/6/9. The latter gives her a lot more options for 75 speed pairs. So you should decide what class Morgan will be and who and what Morgan's boyfriend is going to be. If Morgan, in the class you choose, doesn't need any more speed to reach 75 with her boyfriend, you should give MaMU a skill or strength asset which would be more useful to both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 And as another argument against this, Gaius!Noire @ Trickster paired up with Laurent @ Sage is way better than Owain (owing to having a partner with magical dual strikes) at taking down Thronie. Won't Owain have magical DSes too? I think this is probably the superior option. Keep in mind that an Owain x Kjelle pair has a good few alternate sets they could run should you ever want to change your team up, and the extra Staffbots are really huge. Noire's damage will definitely be better than Kjelle's, but Owain isn't too far behind. You could also try to rework Brady into a Trickster to fill her role if you can free up someone for him- I recall he was a close second to Noire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Won't Owain have magical DSes too? Not unless I give Kjelle a shockstick. The idea is that both Kjelle and Owain can hit either pavise or aegis, but Owain's magical (tomes and levin sword) and Kjelle's physical (lances and bows). I'm saying that Owain isn't as good at taking down Thronie with a levin sword as Gaius!Noire is because Gaius!Noire has Laurent to back her up with magical DSes while Kjelle has physical ones that hit Thronie's massive defense, unless I give her an extremely unreliable-to-get shockstick. As for Brady replacing her, he needs Lon'qu for that I believe, who I'm currently using for Yarne. And if I switch Lon'qu and Virion around so it's Lon'qu!Brady and Virion!Yarne, then Virion!Yarne!Morgan @ Assassin won't be able to hit 100% DS with Stahl!Nah @ Sniper when Nah's in front unless I replace bowfaire with skill+2 or give Morgan AS+2 or something. Edited January 19, 2015 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Henry!Brady works too. But couldn't you lead with Kjelle against Thronie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Henry!Brady works too. But couldn't you lead with Kjelle against Thronie? Would that be more effective? I suppose it would be, slightly, because Owain could then use valflame instead of a forged levin sword for slightly higher damage while Kjelle's damage wouldn't be reduced... As for Henry!Brady, he lacks swordfaire, doesn't he? That's what I find so great about Gaius!Noire, she has literally everything she needs to be a levin sword trickster. Edited January 19, 2015 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Yeah, he does. Henry!Inigo/Owain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Yeah, he does. Henry!Inigo/Owain? Ehhh... you know how I feel about vengeance. It's not as bad as I initially thought, but I still don't consider it worth the trouble. Actually, before I think about this any further, I have to work out whether or not Kjelle and Owain can beat Thronie on their own. Do you have Thronie's stats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 HP: 99 Str: 80 Mag: 50 Skl: 65 Spd: 64 Lck: 65 Def: 64 (59 + 5 from Helswath) Res: 55 Source: http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Awakening_Enemy_Data:_Apotheosis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) HP: 99 Str: 80 Mag: 50 Skl: 65 Spd: 64 Lck: 65 Def: 64 (59 + 5 from Helswath) Res: 55 Source: http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Awakening_Enemy_Data:_Apotheosis So... Kjelle's ranged lance attack power: 41 + 10 LB + 10 Rallies + 2 Tonic + 8 Pairup + 19 Gradivus = 90. - 69 defense = 21 / 2 = 10. Luna damage: 27. Astra damage: 25. Owain's tome attack power: 43 + 10 LB + 10 Rallies + 2 Tonic + 7 Pairup + 10 Aggressor + 5 Valflame boost + 16 Valflame = 103. - 55 res = 48 / 2 = 24. Assuming Luna on all hits and all DSes hit, that's 102 damage, just three damage to spare. So, as long as all of the hits are procs and at least one of the hits is Luna, Thronie's going down. If, on the other hand, I had Owain use a Levin sword and gave Kjelle a forged shockstick: Owain's levin sword attack power: 43 + 10 LB + 10 Rallies + 2 Tonic + 7 Pairup + 10 Aggressor + 15 Forged Levin Sword = 97. - 55 res = 42 / 2 = 21. Luna damage: 39. Astra damage: 50. Kjelle's shockstick attack power: 38 + 10 LB + 10 Rallies + 2 Tonic + 6 Pairup + 16 Forged Shockstick = 82. - 55 Res = 27 / 2 = 13. Assuming both hits are Luna: 104 damage. Assuming both are Astra: 126. Looks like getting Kjelle a forged shockstick should put me in the clear for this. Any mistakes in my calculations? Edit: Yes. Yes there was. I mistakenly thought Thronie's def was 64 + 5 rather than 64 (59 + 5). That means... Up front, Kjelle does 13 damage at base, Luna damage is 29, and Astra damage is 30. That bumps assuming-all-DSes-hit damage to 106-108. And since Kjelle's skill is 47 + 10 LB + 10 Rallies + 2 Tonic + 3 Pairups = 72, that makes her chance of proc-whiffing... 17.92%. And with Owain's skill of 40 + 10 LB + 10 Rallies + 2 tonic = 62, 72 + 62 = 134. /4 = 33 1/2. So Dual Strike rate with Kjelle up front is 93%. ...So two 7% chances of failure and two 17.92% chances of failure. Edited January 20, 2015 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckc22 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 So you should decide what class Morgan will be and who and what Morgan's boyfriend is going to be. If Morgan, in the class you choose, doesn't need any more speed to reach 75 with her boyfriend, you should give MaMU a skill or strength asset which would be more useful to both of them. Well I think I like lead (skl/def) morgan sniper, lb/gf/luna/aether/bowfaire (vs ignis? - she'll always be in the lead, and her insane 86 skl would give her a 99% proc rate, not sure how it compares damage output wise vs a faire) supp laurent hero, lb/agg/axefaire/as2/anathema Which gives Morgan 75 speed and 100% ds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Something funky is up. Your calcs are missing WRB and WT in general, nobody has any Faires listed, Thronie's Def is 5 too high and he doesn't have his Throne bonuses, and both the front and back units are getting pairup bonuses. Well I think I like lead (skl/def) morgan sniper, lb/gf/luna/aether/bowfaire (vs ignis? - she'll always be in the lead, and her insane 86 skl would give her a 99% proc rate, not sure how it compares damage output wise vs a faire) Time for more Aether damage calcs. I'll assume the target is Anna as always. What are your Atk and Mag stats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Well I think I like lead (skl/def) morgan sniper, lb/gf/luna/aether/bowfaire (vs ignis? - she'll always be in the lead, and her insane 86 skl would give her a 99% proc rate, not sure how it compares damage output wise vs a faire) supp laurent hero, lb/agg/axefaire/as2/anathema Which gives Morgan 75 speed and 100% ds Seriously? 100% DS rate? Let's check that... With a Sniper and a hero, you need a mod/ability skill bonus total of 14 to 100% DS. Morgan has +8 Skill, and Gregor!Laurent has... 4 + 2, totals to six. You're right! Wow, didn't even think about that! Yeah that sounds like it's probably the way to go, though an assassin support would probably be better for your attack output, as it would offer the needed speed AND give you 4 more strength. But that's just 2 damage per attack, it's almost negligible, it sounds like it could work. Something funky is up. Your calcs are missing WRB and WT in general, nobody has any Faires listed, Thronie's Def is 5 too high and he doesn't have his Throne bonuses, and both the front and back units are getting pairup bonuses. Shoot. Sorry, this is the first time I've ever done damage calcs like that, I knew I'd screw something up. But no, the lack of faires is intentional. I didn't consider it worth it since the entire point of this duo is that they'd both be switching between two weapon types regularly, so I figure Owain's better off with Astra and Kjelle's better of with either Deliverer or AS+2. Edited January 20, 2015 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Seriously? 100% DS rate? Let's check that... A properly prepared Morgan is actually capable of getting 100% DS with any unit in the game (that they can S with, of course) regardless of their parentage, provided Morgan's parentage, both classes, and all skills are under your control. This is true whether Morgan is leading or supporting, and assumes no Barracks Boosts or +Skl weapons. Just one of the fun things you learn while trying to squeeze every last drop out of a 100% DS team. Edited January 20, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 A properly prepared Morgan is actually capable of getting 100% DS with any unit in the game (that they can S with, of course) regardless of their parentage, provided Morgan's parentage, both classes, and all skills are under your control. This is true whether Morgan is leading or supporting, and assumes no Barracks Boosts or +Skl weapons. Just one of the fun things you learn while trying to squeeze every last drop out of a 100% DS team. Seriously? His/her partner doesn't even need Sniper/Assassin? I have trouble seeing that, since my +Skl-Def!Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan just barely achieves 100% DS with Stahl!Nah when she's a sniper with AS+2 equipped and she's in front. How can a morgan with a lower mod than that achieve 100% DS with a character that doesn't have access to sniper/assassin or at least hero? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'll use +Skl Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan@Sniper married to Libra!Nah (the worst DS booster in the game, since her best class is Sage). Morgan will be a Sniper with LB/All+2/Skl+2/Defender- nothing else matters here besides achieving 100%. Nah will be a Sage with LB/All+2. Morgan's Skl: 48(base) +10(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +2(All+2) +2(Skl+2) +2(tonic) =84 Nah's Skl: 43(base) +1(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) =68 Nah's pairup boost: 7+1 (Defender) =8 Morgan's pairup boost: 8 84+68+8 =160 It's completely Skl-perfect on both sides- neither one can possibly get any more bar Barracks and weapons. But it is enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'll use +Skl Lon'qu!Yarne!Morgan@Sniper married to Libra!Nah (the worst DS booster in the game, since her best class is Sage). Morgan will be a Sniper with LB/All+2/Skl+2/Defender- nothing else matters here besides achieving 100%. Nah will be a Sage with LB/All+2. Morgan's Skl: 48(base) +10(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +2(All+2) +2(Skl+2) +2(tonic) =84 Nah's Skl: 43(base) +1(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) =68 Nah's pairup boost: 7+1 (Defender) =8 Morgan's pairup boost: 8 84+68+8 =160 It's completely Skl-perfect on both sides- neither one can possibly get any more bar Barracks and weapons. But it is enough. Wait, Defender boosts the OTHER person? I thought it was like deliverer and improved the skill HOLDER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 It does. Having it on Morgan effectively modifies Nah's pairup bonus to him since it only is effective when he's receiving her bonus, and thus it's simpler to lump it in with the pairup calculations than to put it anywhere else. I probably should have been clearer- Morgan and Nah's pairup boosts refer to the stats they give, not receive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Noodle Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Any ideas on what Henry! Cynthia dark flier support should inherit? Also final skills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 It does. Having it on Morgan effectively modifies Nah's pairup bonus to him since it only is effective when he's receiving her bonus, and thus it's simpler to lump it in with the pairup calculations than to put it anywhere else. I probably should have been clearer- Morgan and Nah's pairup boosts refer to the stats they give, not receive. Ah... Shame though, for a second I was actually interested in using defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Any ideas on what Henry! Cynthia dark flier support should inherit? Also final skills? Support? Why would you be using Henry!Cynthia as a support unit? Edit: Sorry, double post, I realized it just after I pressed the button. Edited January 20, 2015 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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