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Vaike!Severa unless I am mistaken does not get Deliverer

I want to have a magical hard support Laurent, would LIbra be a good option for Laurent's father since he's only 1 mag short of Ricken? Gregor is currently but I don't really want to have Laurent do vantage+vengeace, so there's basically no point in doing that pairing outside of general availability and the option to go physical(not necessary) from what I can tell.

I don't see why you don't want to go Vantage+Vengeance. That's about the closest thing Laurent will get to becoming an upfront unit.

If you don't do that, Ricken beats Libra because he has Luna. Gregor comes with Armsthrift, and Laurent still gets a +3 magic mod which isn't bad. He also comes with Astra, and Astra is much more useful for magic users than physical. Your call.

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Hey, so, as Isetrh suggested, I'm having my +Skl-Def FeMU be a sniper and her husband Lon'qu!Yarne be an assassin. Now, Isetrh also said that if I put all+2 on both of them they could reach 100% DS. Now that's an option, BUT... since Yarne is fairing in swords anyway I could just have Yarne constantly equip Mystletainns during Apotheosis since I'm not using braves. If I do this, I can replace AS+2 with bowfaire for 3 more damage. Since even with AS+2 she's not going to be doubling Anna, that sounds like it could be a good idea, except that if I used AS+2 instead of Bowfaire on Robin like originally planned, I could use Mercurius with Yarne, which would be +3 damage for him. And since apparently raw attack in the front is inferior to raw attack in the back because of pavgis, that suggests to me I should go AS+2 on Robin. Which is correct?

I'm not going to try to say which options are best--that's for an expert like CY or AC, or at least someone who has actually completed Apotheosis themselves before--but I will state some facts I thought might be relevant.

Yarne will have a pretty amazing Hit rate, but it still might occasionally not be 100%. Extra skill is one way to increase reliability in those situations. This is minor, but it is one thing in Mystletainn's favor. Other than this, I don't see a reason to put damage in front instead of in back, but that could.just mean I don't see one.

If you find yourself tight on skill slots, Vengeance instead of proc-stacking is an option. That's what I'm doing on my FeMU who is going to do the same build with Gregor!Yarne. LB/GF/Vengeance/All+2/Deliverer. Still don't have room for BF on mine, but consider how Vengeance+BF compares to Luna+Ignis.

I don't see why you don't want to go Vantage+Vengeance. That's about the closest thing Laurent will get to becoming an upfront unit.

If you don't do that, Ricken beats Libra because he has Luna. Gregor comes with Armsthrift, and Laurent still gets a +3 magic mod which isn't bad. He also comes with Astra, and Astra is much more useful for magic users than physical. Your call.

Laurent doesn't need to go in front outside of VV. He and his wife get two attacks per turn whether she takes both or gets a kill and then switches to Laurent. Laurent makes better use of Agg when he is in the back, so outside of VV he really doesn't ever need to lead. Edited by isetrh
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Hey, so, as Isetrh suggested, I'm having my +Skl-Def FeMU be a sniper and her husband Lon'qu!Yarne be an assassin. Now, Isetrh also said that if I put all+2 on both of them they could reach 100% DS. Now that's an option, BUT... since Yarne is fairing in swords anyway I could just have Yarne constantly equip Mystletainns during Apotheosis since I'm not using braves. If I do this, I can replace AS+2 with bowfaire for 3 more damage. Since even with AS+2 she's not going to be doubling Anna, that sounds like it could be a good idea, except that if I used AS+2 instead of Bowfaire on Robin like originally planned, I could use Mercurius with Yarne, which would be +3 damage for him. And since apparently raw attack in the front is inferior to raw attack in the back because of pavgis, that suggests to me I should go AS+2 on Robin. Which is correct?

Since Mystletainn gives +5 Skl instead of +2, that'll also give you the option to swap Yarne's All+2 for something else. I'm leaning Mystletainn personally.

But do be warned that farming substantial quantities of Regalia is a massive pain. They're cool, but I don't like to use them without either AT or being in a challenge run.

I don't see why you don't want to go Vantage+Vengeance. That's about the closest thing Laurent will get to becoming an upfront unit.

If you don't do that, Ricken beats Libra because he has Luna. Gregor comes with Armsthrift, and Laurent still gets a +3 magic mod which isn't bad. He also comes with Astra, and Astra is much more useful for magic users than physical. Your call.

And I don't see why you'd want him to ever be a lead. He's got Agg, Agg does double damage in the back, he wants to be in the back as much as possible. VV is cool, but it tends to over-centralize teams that it's a part of and if you're going to build your whole team around one pair, it should be Avatar/Morgan x Lucina, not Laurent x Lucina. There is that 100% crit build for him I came up with, but that costs a Tactician support and is pretty gimmicky.

Luna does nothing on support units. Neither does Astra. Gregor!Laurent also has the (often unspoken) advantage of being one of the best units in the game for everything except Apo.

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It's a great skill usually, but if you've already got 100% DS then all it's actually doing is giving you +2 Str. Basically it's gone from indispensable to something you could swap out if there's anything that matters more.

Thanks! I think my plan is complete now. Stahl ends up unused because I can't find anyone who needs him, but oh well.

Oh, and I missed this. Consider Stahl for Nah, as she'll lose General and 1 Skl in exchange for Sniper (and Skl+2), Assassin and some Faires. Even if you aren't using her, she'll be way better.

I don't know how tight your Yarne's Skl is, but if he (and Morgan) can take the -1 Skl Stahl is an option for him too.

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Oh, and I missed this. Consider Stahl for Nah, as she'll lose General and 1 Skl in exchange for Sniper (and Skl+2), Assassin and some Faires. Even if you aren't using her, she'll be way better.

I don't know how tight your Yarne's Skl is, but if he (and Morgan) can take the -1 Skl Stahl is an option for him too.

I was planning on having Frederick!Nah be a pavgis Manakete with Sorc support. What would Stahl!Nah do?

Unfortunately neither Yarne or Morgan can take the -1 Skill.

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Soooo Hi! I'm new here. And to Fire emblem in general. I haven't even beat the game yet so i lack experience (On chapter 14. Where you start pairing people), but regular games are kinda boring anyways.... I mean, who here plays pokemon for the story and has been playing since red/blue/yellow? So i tend to like to get down to the nitty gritty complexities and competition in a game right away rather than pay attention to story. I'm not watching a movie here.

Anyways, I need help pairing my FeMu!Lucina. As this is my first play through of Fire Emblem (ever), i want to gain experience in the most used strategies in FE, the first of which i came a cross was VVDS+. Sooooo, I want to try a Sage!Luci with a sniper support as that seems to be the most talked about strat (positive or negative).

Kinda having problems here as i really dont know what makes a good sniper support (and wading through thousands of posts to comb for the specific info i need is like impossible). It's mostly for the high skill to get those Dual Strikes yeah? Was thinking something like this:

LQ!Ingo gets +5 to skill and speed which is like awesome... But this doesn't allow for the Sniper class. I hear ingo makes a decent Wyvern Rider support?

Stahl!Laurent I've just seen high praise in general for Laurent. The problem here is that it seems like a waste to set up a fully capable VVDS+ tank as a support character for a different tank.

And a few others i suppose. Seems like the only three fathers that give sniper are virion stahl and ricken and ricken's modifiers arent good for a physical support.

Verion!Ingo seems good too. 0/1/1/4/4/0/-2/0 modifiers and access to sniper, myrmidon, and assassin. Hmm with that support i could try a variety of support builds. But LQ!Ingo just has overall better stats.

Also, how does Gerome get Dual Support+.

Also, does each of the 4 support levels from Dual Support+ give an aditional 10% to Dual Strikes for a total of 40% on top of the 60% from S rank support for a total of 100% Dual Strikes?

Thoughts? Tips? I'm pretty new at this and i dont think i fully understand the more complex strats yet. For instance, i dont know how you are supposed to get below half health consistantantly with vantage. Other similar infinite tanking builds that rely on HP percentages always had some sort of item to reduce health. Like the guid wars 55 monk held items to reduce its health to 55. With pokemon, you use Focus sash to stay alive at 1HP, like Miracle except 100% activation while at full health. Do you just let enemies hit you? What if they kill you instead of just getting you below half health?

Edited by Soule
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I was planning on having Frederick!Nah be a pavgis Manakete with Sorc support. What would Stahl!Nah do?

Be slightly faster and have more options is you decide to swap her to support. It's not a big deal though.

Anyways, I need help pairing my FeMu!Lucina. As this is my first play through of Fire Emblem (ever), i want to gain experience in the most used strategies in FE, the first of which i came a cross was VVDS+. Sooooo, I want to try a Sage!Luci with a sniper support as that seems to be the most talked about strat (positive or negative).

Something you need to know when looking up stuff online for Awakening: the game is 2-3 years old. Its metagame is still evolving (though it's slowing down now) and something even a few months old is likely to be out of date. This probably doesn't sound like a big deal, but for Awakening it is. So don't blindly trust anything unless a) it's something you hear firsthand at the time it was said, and b) it makes sense.

That said, this is probably the best place out there to get acquainted with the meta. Stay away from GameFAQs though. I'll write up some in-depth explanations later if you have any specific questions (very busy so they might not come at my usual speed), and there are lots of other people here who know their stuff.

There's no magic "drop HP to 1" button in Awakening. There's the skill Miracle, but that's a massive pain to use because it's both random (outside of setups specifically designed for 100% Miracle and nothing else) with death as the bad outcome, and takes up a skillslot which are very valuable. The only way to get 1HP setups is to look at the enemy data ahead of time, run your calcs and find some way to always reach 1 HP (very tricky when Dual Guards are involved, they mess with a lot of strategies). It's a big caveat that many people neglect to mention when promoting VV setups, and one reason why I don't really like them.

Now, even though you want to jump right into the meta and build a cool team and will obviously ignore my standard "first playthrough" speech, I still advise you to complete this one without grinding too much or worrying about pairings. Playing through the game normally is a great way to get familiar with some of the core mechanics that make high-level play possible (damage is always static and predictable being the biggest one, followed by unit management and avoiding scenarios with a chance of death) that are taken for granted when talking about the meta.

Gerome can inherit DS+ from Cherche (Dual Support+, whether people mean it or Dual Strike+ by DS+ depends on context but DSp+ does not give any extra Dual Strike). Stahl!Yarne will serve you well if you need a Sniper hard support, but I'm a bit dubious on using Lucina for a VV lead with a Sniper support.

Edited by Czar_Yoshi
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Thats cool. If you think sniper isnt the way to go for support with Luci, I'm not hard set on the class. Its just what people were talking about. What would you prefer? Sage/Sage? I chose sniper because people seem to say physical vs high def is better than magic vs high res. Also, why would you choose that over a sniper support for Luci?

Also i get the basic game mechanics. My fundamentals could use a little work, but i dont want to waste time running through my first run while i could be doing my first run plus learning about how the metagame works as well. Just efficiency. Even if it takes a bit more work >.>

So is Dual Support mainly to help activate more Support Guards? Or is it only relevant for the stat boosts?

Stop reading here to avoid angry video game rant:

I mean, its hard to find a complex game in this standard of slow ass realistic FPS's and trashy pretty looking graphics over gameplay mechanics. Developers wont take chances on mechanics like they once did in the hayday of Genesis and SNES. They leave that to Indy game developers who are great at making side scrollers or platformers, but just dont have the resources to put together a proper complex RPG or Fighter with properly varied and complex yet balanced metagames. In fact most of the time, when metagames get interesting it's largely an accident by the developer. Do any of you think Smash Bros was designed to be competitive? Nintendo still tells people to stop playing it competitively lol. Bluntly put, developers prefer extremely simple mechanics so their game is noob friendly and more time can be devoted to making the game look flashy... BORING! EASY! I want the challenge of a game I can spend 10 years practicing and developing new tactics for (Still playing Gunz the Duel since 04 and discovered new useful moves about a month and a half ago. That single new move's implications and tactics will take another 6 months to develop a foundation for offensively, defensively and psychologically, and another 3 or 4 months for those tactics to be implemented perfectly and fluidly into your gameplay style. Its very literally like martial arts in that sense.) and still find new mechanics that can be useful and meta shifting.

All in all, FE is something of an interest i suppose. I wasnt expecting any kind of metagame at all when i picked it up. Just some standard tactics RPG. By all means, its not as much of a complex game of chess as competitive pokemon, or an intense psychological battle between you and your oponent like in -good- fighting games like Soul Calibur 3... But it has merits i suppose. I'll probably master it in a few months and get bored again :P. Especially since it seems the hardest maps in the game's DLC are severely underpowered.

Edited by Soule
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@Czar_Yoshi

I've already picked up my Child pairing :)

Lucina x Avatar
Morgan x Yarne
Kjelle x Inigo
Cynthia x Laurent
Severa x Gerome
Nah x Brady
Noire x Owain
Also decided for my Noire to have the ff setup
Assasin
Skills SOL,PASS,PRAVISE,GF,LimitBreaker
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Hey, I know this has been asked numerous times beforehand, but I was wondering if I'd be able to get some advice on my pairings, if at all possible.

Thus far, I've planned them out as such:

Chrom!Cynthia, as a Dark Flier.
Sumia!Lucina, as a Sniper.

Ricken!Owain, as a Sage.
Donnel!Kjelle, with an undecided final class.

Gregor!Laurent, as a Sage.
Henry!Brady as a Sage.
Virion!Yarne as a Berserker.

Lon'Qu!Severa, as a Wyvern Rider.

Vaike!Nah, with an undecided final class,

Gaius!Noire, as a Dark Flier.

Frederick!Inigo, most likely as a Berserker.

Stahl!Gerome, as a Berserker.

Inigo!Morgan, with an undecided final class. I could easily swap around his father.

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Stop reading here to avoid angry video game rant:

I mean, its hard to find a complex game in this standard of slow ass realistic FPS's and trashy pretty looking graphics over gameplay mechanics. Developers wont take chances on mechanics like they once did in the hayday of Genesis and SNES. They leave that to Indy game developers who are great at making side scrollers or platformers, but just dont have the resources to put together a proper complex RPG or Fighter with properly varied and complex yet balanced metagames. In fact most of the time, when metagames get interesting it's largely an accident by the developer. Do any of you think Smash Bros was designed to be competitive? Nintendo still tells people to stop playing it competitively lol. Bluntly put, developers prefer extremely simple mechanics so their game is noob friendly and more time can be devoted to making the game look flashy... BORING! EASY! I want the challenge of a game I can spend 10 years practicing and developing new tactics for (Still playing Gunz the Duel since 04 and discovered new useful moves about a month and a half ago. That single new move's implications and tactics will take another 6 months to develop a foundation for offensively, defensively and psychologically, and another 3 or 4 months for those tactics to be implemented perfectly and fluidly into your gameplay style. Its very literally like martial arts in that sense.) and still find new mechanics that can be useful and meta shifting.

All in all, FE is something of an interest i suppose. I wasnt expecting any kind of metagame at all when i picked it up. Just some standard tactics RPG. By all means, its not as much of a complex game of chess as competitive pokemon, or an intense psychological battle between you and your oponent like in -good- fighting games like Soul Calibur 3... But it has merits i suppose. I'll probably master it in a few months and get bored again :P. Especially since it seems the hardest maps in the game's DLC are severely underpowered.

If you want a real (and not self-imposed) challenge from FEA, you can get it, but look to the higher difficulties rather than to postgame.

As Alastor said, Stahl!Gerome doesn't get Berserker. I think he's mostly used for his ability to use Bow classes.

Edited by isetrh
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One more thing, YayForYuffie, Olivia's... kind of a crappy grandmother for Morgan. Her stat mods are pretty crappy, and her versatile class selection is meaningless to Morgan. Inigo!Morgan is really only worth it if the grandfather is Chrom and you really want to do the 100% Proc gimmick with rightful king and +7 skill.

Depending on your mods, I might go for Virion!Yarne instead, or Ricken!Owain.

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Sorry I didn't respond to the last advice you gave me Czar, I needed some time to think about what to do.

The only reason I tried to make Nah a tank instead of a skirmisher is because I didn't see much point in having an 8th pair of skirmishers, since fielding all of them leaves me very little room for Staffbots. If I were to make Nah into a skirmisher, I could go all out without hurting anyone else much. Change Libra!Inigo back to Stahl!Inigo, change Henry!Owain to Libra!Owain, change Nah to Henry!Nah. Change Lucina's partner from Owain to Ricken!Laurent, Cynthia's from Brady to Owain, and Nah's from Ricken!Laurent to Lon'qu!Brady. I'm just questioning whether it's worth it at all considering I need Staffbots.

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Hey, I know this has been asked numerous times beforehand, but I was wondering if I'd be able to get some advice on my pairings, if at all possible.

Thus far, I've planned them out as such:

Chrom!Cynthia, as a Dark Flier.

Sumia!Lucina, as a Sniper.

Ricken!Owain, as a Sage.

Donnel!Kjelle, with an undecided final class.

Gregor!Laurent, as a Sage.

Henry!Brady as a Sage.

Virion!Yarne as a Berserker.

Lon'Qu!Severa, as a Wyvern Rider.

Vaike!Nah, with an undecided final class,

Gaius!Noire, as a Dark Flier.

Frederick!Inigo, most likely as a Berserker.

Stahl!Gerome, as a Berserker.

Inigo!Morgan, with an undecided final class. I could easily swap around his father.

Frederick Inigo isn't all that great, especially for his speed. If you want a father with Luna, Stahl Chrom and Ricken (Only for a magic Inigo, it's a bit iffy) are better choices. Plus Frederick doesn't pass Berserker, but that shouldn't matter too much since Inigo can easily share a leading spot with his wife.

Also Stahl!Gerome is only recommended for a Bowfaire support. It shouldn't be too much of a problem given that I doubt anyone else is available.

Frederick Inigo should be a Wyvern Rider/Hero/General <- Support only.

Stahl!Gerome should be a Warrior archer.

Kjelle is meh in terms of stats with Donnel, but it's the only pair that doesn't hold Gaius down from Tharja and gives her Galeforce, making her a potential lead. Either way, she isn't too spectacular.

Cynthia isn't spectacular as a Dark Flier, and she's only really wanted as a Dark Flier if she's the supporter. Try a different class.

Pass down Axefaire for Nah and keep her as a Hero/General.

Gregor!Laurent is awesome and underrated. Enjoy.

Sorcerer Noire should be considered at the least.

Edited by Duke of Dozel
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If you want a real (and not self-imposed) challenge from FEA, you can get it, but look to the higher difficulties rather than to postgame.

As Alastor said, Stahl!Gerome doesn't get Berserker. I think he's mostly used for his ability to use Bow classes.

Nah I dont think its possible as challenge is based on static rules that dont really update. Which is fine. All RPGs are like that except massively complex ones like Pokemon, and even that one has non changing aspects until the next generation or remake, ie: weather teams from gen 5. Yay! Boring! (woulda been fine if there were more than 2 competitive weathers though >.>) Lol. In fighters (good ones) and in a lesser but still massive extent Pokemon, gameplay changes depending on how your oponent -thinks-. I dont think FE can provide that sort of intensity. But it has more complexity than anticipated and mastering the game will be fun for a little while :P.

Oh if you're talking about lunatic and lunatic+, eventually it just comes down to run memorization and perfect placement with diversity coming from different team builds. Lol believe me I've been there in both guild wars games as well as Elder Scrolls online. Its fun for a while when everything still doesnt quite make sense and you have to develop new strats and new experiences. Thats the reason i play the genre XD. So of course i'll be playing lunatic lol. At least until the tedium gets to me :P

Edited by Soule
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Nah I dont think its possible as challenge is based on static rules that dont really update. Which is fine. All RPGs are like that except massively complex ones like Pokemon, and even that one has non changing aspects until the next generation or remake, ie: weather teams from gen 5. Yay! Boring! (woulda been fine if there were more than 2 competitive weathers though >.>) Lol. In fighters (good ones) and in a lesser but still massive extent Pokemon, gameplay changes depending on how your oponent -thinks-. I dont think FE can provide that sort of intensity. But it has more complexity than anticipated and mastering the game will be fun for a little while :P.

I don't believe you've heard of Lunatic+ mode.

In addition to every enemy having massively inflated stats and reinforcements being a pain in general, each enemy randomly (except some major bosses) receives two of seven skills specifically designed to shut down one of several major FE strats such as unit specialization, enemy phase sweeping, tanking, dodgetanking, holding chokepoints etc. The skills are random though, so building a proper team to react to them and being able to come up with new plans on the fly while still staying ahead of the heavy stat growth curve is quite a legitimate challenge.

Also, don't be elitist. Especially against Smash. There are a lot of smash fans on this forum and you're going to make people mad talking like that.

Kjelle is meh in terms of stats with Donnel, but it's the only pair that doesn't hold Gaius down from Tharja and gives her Galeforce, making her a potential lead. Either way, she isn't too spectacular.

Go ahead, try Gaius!Kjelle. She's almost another Severa. Noire can take Donnel and go be average with Vengeance, or even forget about GF in exchange for good mods and being a hard support (I'm using Vaike!Noire@Sniper myself). It's not as big of a loss as it seems.

Edited by Czar_Yoshi
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Hey, I know this has been asked numerous times beforehand, but I was wondering if I'd be able to get some advice on my pairings, if at all possible.

Thus far, I've planned them out as such:

Chrom!Cynthia, as a Dark Flier.

Sumia!Lucina, as a Sniper.

Ricken!Owain, as a Sage.

Donnel!Kjelle, with an undecided final class. - Lancefaire Wyvern Lord or Dodge Tank Hero w/ Underdog.

Gregor!Laurent, as a Sage.

Henry!Brady as a Sage.

Virion!Yarne as a Berserker.

Lon'Qu!Severa, as a Wyvern Rider.

Vaike!Nah, with an undecided final class, - Axefaire Hero/General, depending on the needs of the front unit

Gaius!Noire, as a Dark Flier. - Sniper. You will get much more mileage out of her as a Sniper. She doesn't have Tomefaire and DF's Str is too low to fix with Lancefaire.

Frederick!Inigo, most likely as a Berserker. - Axefaire Wyvern Lord, Swordfaire Pally, Axe/Swordfaire Hero are also things to consider. Inigo has a lot of good classes to end as.

Stahl!Gerome, as a Berserker. - Stahl!Gerome doesn't have Zerker. Bowfaire Warrior.

Inigo!Morgan, with an undecided final class. I could easily swap around his father. - Lol it's Morgan do whatever.

Everything checks out ok. Thoughts in bold.

Frederick Inigo isn't all that great, especially for his speed. If you want a father with Luna, Stahl Chrom and Ricken (Only for a magic Inigo, it's a bit iffy) are better choices. Plus Frederick doesn't pass Berserker, but that shouldn't matter too much since Inigo can easily share a leading spot with his wife.

Freddy!Inigo is the highest Str Inigo with the 2nd highest skill (+4, behind LQ) and only has a +0 Spd mod. It's not as much of a hindrance as you think.

Also Stahl!Gerome is only recommended for a Bowfaire support. It shouldn't be too much of a problem given that I doubt anyone else is available.

Frederick Inigo should be a Wyvern Rider/Hero/General <- Support only.

As a unit with Astra/Luna/Gale, Inigo is always a lead unit.

Stahl!Gerome should be a Warrior archer.

Kjelle is meh in terms of stats with Donnel, but it's the only pair that doesn't hold Gaius down from Tharja and gives her Galeforce, making her a potential lead. Either way, she isn't too spectacular.

Funny enough base Kjelle is spectacular, considering she has 4 class trees. She really only wants Galeforce.

Cynthia isn't spectacular as a Dark Flier, and she's only really wanted as a Dark Flier if she's the supporter. Try a different class.

With neutral +0 Str/+1 Mag mods, along with Aether/Luna and 3 faires, Chrom!Cynthia is spectacular as *everything*

Pass down Axefaire for Nah and keep her as a Hero/General.

Gregor!Laurent is awesome and underrated. Enjoy.

Sorcerer Noire should be considered at the least.

Gaius!Noire lacks tomefaire. Would be better off as a physical class since she has a faire for Bow, Lance, and Sword.

Thoughts in bold.

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Frederick Inigo isn't all that great, especially for his speed. If you want a father with Luna, Stahl Chrom and Ricken (Only for a magic Inigo, it's a bit iffy) are better choices. Plus Frederick doesn't pass Berserker, but that shouldn't matter too much since Inigo can easily share a leading spot with his wife.

Uh... Frederick doesn't pass berserker to Inigo? Inigo already GETS berseker from Olivia.

Edited by Alastor15243
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