One-Shot Mafia Game Thread - Game Over

[Refa]

Not really sold on the BBM/Poly scuffle, and I'm not too keen on Refa's explanation (not everyone who's scum will act the same way as you).

I was speaking from my experiences rather than for myself personally, but I concede that scum might act differently than what I'm used too. I'm not justifying a town read on Objection (currently, he's null) because of this, but I'm not finding him nearly as scummy as other people (OK, just Polydeuces) are.

Refa, what are your opinions about Poly? Not really getting what you meant in your comment on my post earlier.

Polydeuces mentioned that he had poor wording in his past posts, but I don't believe he's ever mentioned overreacting himself? Regardless, while I don't like his reasoning, I'm not reading him as particularly scummier than my RVS vote, so my vote is staying for the time being.

Also, if you don't think that it's possible that members of the mafia might react differently than town in RVS, why do you even RVS vote?

Simple, to get the game going. It's just as possible for town to say something to spur on discussion as it is for mafia.

alternatively we could lynch euklyd bc I still think euk is scum

I agree that he seems more self conscious than in his last mafia game, but I'm not getting any scum vibes?

For the record, the people pinging me right now are BBM, Polydeuces, and Objection. I feel like the reason that BBM and Polydeuces are pinging me though is because they're the ones posting the most rather than because I find any of their individual posts to be scummy. While I don't find Objection's 2 vote thing scummy, I don't like how he disappeared after defending his vote and hasn't really contributed much (he exhibited similar behavior in Musical Chairs). I don't really have a solid read on anyone else at the moment.

[eclipse]

For the record, the people pinging me right now are BBM, Polydeuces, and Objection. I feel like the reason that BBM and Polydeuces are pinging me though is because they're the ones posting the most rather than because I find any of their individual posts to be scummy. While I don't find Objection's 2 vote thing scummy, I don't like how he disappeared after defending his vote and hasn't really contributed much (he exhibited similar behavior in Musical Chairs). I don't really have a solid read on anyone else at the moment.

I've been posting quite a bit as of late, as has Bizz. What about BBM/Poly is pinging you? Putting your "pings" into words will help everyone.

[Refa]

I've been posting quite a bit as of late, as has Bizz. What about BBM/Poly is pinging you? Putting your "pings" into words will help everyone.

That's true, I don't know what I was thinking on that front. Still...I'm not really seeing anything that particularly bothers me from either your or Bizz's posts at present. As for BBM/Polydeuces:

BBM

-I don't feel his case on Polydeuces is particularly strong, yet he spends a lot of effort discussing it.

-It seems like he's trying to get other townies to vote for Polydeuces as well, which kind of bothers me (because again, I don't think his case is strong enough to be a wagon), but isn't something that only scum would do.

Polydeuces

-His reasoning for finding Objection scummy is because Objection didn't acknowledge that he overreacted, which seems rather forced.

[euklyd]

I don't like Poly's reasoning, but I don't see a great reason to move my vote at this moment either. If this was near Phase End I'd probably vote there, but this point we have plenty of time, no?

Poly isn't striking me as super scummy, even though I'm leaning scum on him.

Also, I don't really see how BBM is nitpicking, nor how he's handwaving anything. Your reasons, as far as I can tell, literally consisted of only "I'm getting horribly mixed reads from the last sentence, so my vote stays" and "Not an obvious joke necessarily", so there's not a lot to handwave.

Re: Trollstool - I'm really only able to see the "How dare you report on my productivity levels!" as a joke; I don't think any scum, even newbscum, would be stupid enough to say something like that seriously. Doesn't even seem like a newbie thing, just a joke.

However I don't see how the only thing that's going on is little snipes and fight-picking.

tl;dr - Poly is scummy but not super scummy, I don't see eclipse's case on either Trollstool or BBM.

[Refa]

Also as I'm seeing things right now, it's Objection > Polydeuces > BBM > Everyone Else on terms of who I'd want to lynch. I'd like to note that Polydeuces isn't particularly scummier than BBM, but it'd be better for town in terms of associative reads.

[eclipse]

I don't like Poly's reasoning, but I don't see a great reason to move my vote at this moment either. If this was near Phase End I'd probably vote there, but this point we have plenty of time, no?

Poly isn't striking me as super scummy, even though I'm leaning scum on him.

Also, I don't really see how BBM is nitpicking, nor how he's handwaving anything. Your reasons, as far as I can tell, literally consisted of only "I'm getting horribly mixed reads from the last sentence, so my vote stays" and "Not an obvious joke necessarily", so there's not a lot to handwave.

Re: Trollstool - I'm really only able to see the "How dare you report on my productivity levels!" as a joke; I don't think any scum, even newbscum, would be stupid enough to say something like that seriously. Doesn't even seem like a newbie thing, just a joke.

However I don't see how the only thing that's going on is little snipes and fight-picking.

tl;dr - Poly is scummy but not super scummy, I don't see eclipse's case on either Trollstool or BBM.

Fine, fine. . .bold statement. Guess who's playing in this game? YOU. You can do something about this besides complain.

(and that bold statement is the strongest thing I have on you, but not enough for me to move my vote)

[euklyd]

Fine, fine. . .bold statement. Guess who's playing in this game? YOU. You can do something about this besides complain.

(and that bold statement is the strongest thing I have on you, but not enough for me to move my vote)

What?

That's what Trollstool said, not me. I was aiming the statement you bolded at him. I think plenty is going on, and didn't see what he was talking about.

For the record:

(that last sentence was a joke btw :P)

I will do that soon. Alls I'm seeing is people picking fights and making other little snipes. I dunno who to focus on as of yet, ya?

[eclipse]

1. Quoting helps.

2. If you see a lot going on, then where is your vote?

[BBM]

Best way to respond to a "hard" vote IMO is as much of a response as possible to the vote itself, followed by scumhunting elsewhere.

I feel that you're nitpicking Poly for a case (the overall logic is consistent, even if you don't agree with it; you're missing responses), and are handwaving my reasons for keeping my vote where it was. Newbie card isn't a good reason to disregard anything.

. . .come to think of it, I don't like how one person gets all the nitpicky attention and another person gets by with "newbie" excuse.

##Unvote
##Vote: BBM

Which responses am I missing? You can't just say that my case is flawed and then not point out the flaws.

I didn't let Trollstool get by just because he's new. The difference is that there's no scum intent in what Trollstool did. You say I handwaved your case, so then you repeat it again for me. What scum intent did Trollstool have in saying "How dare you question my reads" (if we assume that it was serious) that you were willing to keep your vote there for it? Saying I handwaved it because "lol newb" is incorrect.

As for Poly, he says he was waiting to be sure before placing a vote, yet he votes someone for a relatively small thing that's seems to me to be more gut than anything, and only after I prodded him for not voting. He said that Obj's reaction seemed too much, but that had he admitted that it was too much, he wouldn't have been scummy. How does that make sense, at all? It seems like backtracking to me.

@Refa- I don't like Polydeuces's posts and I think he's suspicious. So I'm going to try to get other people to agree with me. That being said, when I asked you for your opinions on Poly, it was more because you were commenting on the exchange between us without really giving a solid opinion on it. And you're saying that you don't find Poly worse than your RVS vote. So is that you saying that you find Objection scummy? I don't remember you actually saying much about him. Or is it you saying that you don't really have a scumread on anyone?

[BBM]

Eclipse makes a good point against Euklyd though. He picks on Trollstool for not saying anything, yet he's still RVS voting Eury? His reason for not voting Poly is that he doesn't find Poly super scummy, and there's no reason to vote there for consolidation. But what's the reason for just keeping your vote as RVS?

And also I don't think we need majority to lynch in this game; a leading minority will do.

[eclipse]

I believe this was two quotes you pointed out:

It was Objection, not you.

The fact that he seemed to care that much about RVS votes on him made me wonder if he was covering his ass when he didn't have to. I wanted to wait until I had a full-out read on him to make my vote. Basically saying "jk lol" to give a reason for such doesn't seem right IMO.

##Unvote

##Vote: Objection

The initial reaction was bad, but I was thinking it could just be RVS overreaction. When he tried to write off the initial reaction as basically "jk lol", that sealed it for me.

By themselves, they don't look great. . .however, here's two earlier quotes that you're missing:

Bad reaction to votals, seems awfully suspicious IMO

'Twas a joke o serious anti-RVS one.

That response by Objection, along with the timing of it means that Poly's response is plausible. Honestly, I think this entire line of reasoning is absolutely graspy.

I could make a (somewhat weak) case against Momentai, but he's not that high up on my list (currently sitting right below Eukyld). It would also be one of those cases that is extremely hard to argue for/against, as it relies on the psychological aspect of the game.

[eclipse]

@Refa- I don't like Polydeuces's posts and I think he's suspicious. So I'm going to try to get other people to agree with me. That being said, when I asked you for your opinions on Poly, it was more because you were commenting on the exchange between us without really giving a solid opinion on it. And you're saying that you don't find Poly worse than your RVS vote. So is that you saying that you find Objection scummy? I don't remember you actually saying much about him. Or is it you saying that you don't really have a scumread on anyone?

Also, this tells me that you don't have enough confidence in your case to let it stand on its own. If my case is good, then I shouldn't have to persuade others to join me (unless it's five minutes to hammer or something).

[euklyd]

I didn't vote for anyone because I don't really know if I want to vote Poly for having lousy reasoning or eclipse for having lousy reasoning, and I feel like I'm just gonna waffle later because I don't have a great readon either one. Admittedly this not-voting-for-either-of-them doesn't help anyone form reads or really get anything done, so I'll try to choose one of them.
And I didn't remove my vote from Eury because there's still plenty of time and I haven't even seen her post beyond the first one she made. and maybe because I forgot as well

eclipse, you have yet to address the part where neither BBM nor myself see what your argument consists of, and seem content to poke at me instead. If you don't like what BBM is doing, why aren't you trying to convince other people he's scummy?

##Unvote

##Vote: eclipse

pls explain.

@BBM - Was I picking on Trollstool for not saying anything? I commented that I didn't agree with a thing that he did say, but I don't think I've been picking on anyone for not saying anything.

...except maybe Eury, I guess.

[euklyd]

...and cut by eclipse (am I using "cut" right? IDK).

eclipse, why should anyone not have to try and convince people that they have a good case? I thought that's the entire point of a case. This is more me being curious than anything else.

Speaking of being curious, who does Momentai refer to?

I guess you have explained, though, so I'll ##unvote, at least for now, while I consider things further.

PEDIT: Just noticed I never got around to posting this after getting distracted. Not really seeing how the context makes Poly significantly better, nor really seeing a lot of graspy-ness, but I'm still gonna think more.

Still have eclipse and Poly as my highest scumreads, for the record. Not that that's particularly high, mind you, but meh.

[eclipse]

...and cut by eclipse (am I using "cut" right? IDK).

eclipse, why should anyone not have to try and convince people that they have a good case? I thought that's the entire point of a case. This is more me being curious than anything else.

Speaking of being curious, who does Momentai refer to?

I guess you have explained, though, so I'll ##unvote, at least for now, while I consider things further.

PEDIT: Just noticed I never got around to posting this after getting distracted. Not really seeing how the context makes Poly significantly better, nor really seeing a lot of graspy-ness, but I'm still gonna think more.

Still have eclipse and Poly as my highest scumreads, for the record. Not that that's particularly high, mind you, but meh.

IMO, your case should speak for itself. If it's good, sound logic, it'll attract people on its own merits. If I have to convince everyone that my case is good without using the case itself, then it tells me that the case itself can't stand on its own.

I'm not trying to make Poly look good. I don't like how the current case on him is being presented.

[eclipse]

Oh, and Momentai = Toadstool.

[BBM]

Well, yeah, I'm using the merits of my case to convince people. How else would I convince people? You don't see me putting on any performances, do you? But that doesn't mean that asking people about their opinions on the person I'm voting shows non-confidence in my case. Also, people not agreeing with a case right away doesn't make it a bad one, or you'd be required to unvote me soon through your own logic, since nobody's sheeped you yet.

I might not have quoted that first post by Polydeuces, but I made reference to it several times... Again, it involves him saying that what's suspicious about Objection is his reaction to the votes on him, which is why it makes no sense to me why Objection admitting that he'd overreacted a bit would have alleviated that suspicion. I don't see how either of those posts introduces new information.

Also, you admit that your case against Trollstool is somewhat weak and that you yourself don't have her at the top of your list... yet part of your case against me is that I'm handwaving your case against Trollstool?

@Euklyd- Maybe "picking on" wasn't the right phrase to use. What I meant was, you commented on her saying that there was nothing to talk about, while you yourself weren't voting anyone for anything serious. I don't really understand why you unvoted Eclipse right as soon as you voted her either. I don't see anything that she ninja'd you with that countered your argument. Your grievance with her was that she wasn't making an attempt to convince people that I was scum (not really correct; she'd voted for me) and that she wasn't responding back about the Trollstool thing (she still hasn't done this). And she's still one of your highest scumreads?

There's seriously no benefit to not voting in this situation. There's no danger of putting anyone at close to hammer right now, and you can change your vote later if you don't agree with it.

[Eurykins]

Oh... woah. Forgot to check the thread today, pages to read through, yay. o.o

[eclipse]

Well, yeah, I'm using the merits of my case to convince people. How else would I convince people? You don't see me putting on any performances, do you? But that doesn't mean that asking people about their opinions on the person I'm voting shows non-confidence in my case. Also, people not agreeing with a case right away doesn't make it a bad one, or you'd be required to unvote me soon through your own logic, since nobody's sheeped you yet.

I might not have quoted that first post by Polydeuces, but I made reference to it several times... Again, it involves him saying that what's suspicious about Objection is his reaction to the votes on him, which is why it makes no sense to me why Objection admitting that he'd overreacted a bit would have alleviated that suspicion. I don't see how either of those posts introduces new information.

Also, you admit that your case against Trollstool is somewhat weak and that you yourself don't have her at the top of your list... yet part of your case against me is that I'm handwaving your case against Trollstool?

I don't like your case, and I've said why. Whether or not I pursue Momentai as a read is determined by whether or not I think it's important enough. Right now. . .I don't think it is.

There's a fine line between hunting for scum and throwing things until they stick. One is what I'd expect out of town, one is what I'd expect out of scum. My vote should tell you which one of the situations I think that you're emulating at the moment.

[Shinori]

Euklyd, do you think Poly is scummy? You implied it but I don't see your vote anywhere.

Also Shinori who do you think is scum? Do you think Objection is scum? Why aren't you voting him?

Uh, honestly wasn't voting him cause it slipped my mind as I was partially busy at the time and it didn't occur to me later to do that. That being said. I don't intend to vote him at the moment. I'd much rather do this.

##Vote: Euklyd

Not liking him at the moment. His back and forth with Eclipse doesn't seem the best and particularly I didn't lost his posts #79, #88, and #89

Didn't particularly like his vote/unvote on eclipse. It honestly seemed like he was voting just to vote as if to prod or just to get a question answered, not because he had a scum read on Eclipse. Following the unvote he said he had a scum read on Eclipse and Poly but didn't drop another vote on either after actually just unvoting Eclipse.

[euklyd]

@Euklyd- Maybe "picking on" wasn't the right phrase to use. What I meant was, you commented on her saying that there was nothing to talk about, while you yourself weren't voting anyone for anything serious. I don't really understand why you unvoted Eclipse right as soon as you voted her either. I don't see anything that she ninja'd you with that countered your argument. Your grievance with her was that she wasn't making an attempt to convince people that I was scum (not really correct; she'd voted for me) and that she wasn't responding back about the Trollstool thing (she still hasn't done this). And she's still one of your highest scumreads?

I unvoted her because I said I wanted an explanation, and I got that. I also wanted to think about what she said, and I didn't feel like I had a lot of time, and was still on the fence between eclipse and Poly (and still am, and still don't feel like I have a lot of time).

Right now I'm probably leaning towards eclipse, but I really have some HW I've been needing to do, so I'll probably only be voting or actually doing anything tomorrow morning or afternoon. I really shouldn't be trying to timeslice like this.

[BBM]

I've only expressed serious suspicions about you and Poly, and a little about Euklyd. I don't see how I'm throwing suspicions around on everyone. And I repeat, a part of your case earlier was that I was handwaving your case. Handwaving cases isn't something that someone who's trying to throw suspicions around on everyone would do.

And my point in bringing up Trollstool earlier wasn't to say that you should go after her- the point is, you yourself admit it wasn't a super strong case. Then how was it scummy of me to dismiss it?

@Euklyd- Well, yeah, I get that you said you wanted an explanation, but as I said, I don't really get how she did give you a (pertinent) explanation. Anyways, I guess I'll wait for you to get back.

@Hosts- Did Baldrick say anything about an absence?

Speaking of absences, I might not be around tomorrow.

[eclipse]

If you think I'm scum, then why aren't you voting me? ;/

[eclipse]

I've only expressed serious suspicions about you and Poly, and a little about Euklyd. I don't see how I'm throwing suspicions around on everyone. And I repeat, a part of your case earlier was that I was handwaving your case. Handwaving cases isn't something that someone who's trying to throw suspicions around on everyone would do.

And my point in bringing up Trollstool earlier wasn't to say that you should go after her- the point is, you yourself admit it wasn't a super strong case. Then how was it scummy of me to dismiss it?

The first paragraph is exactly what I mean. You're posting suspicions about everyone that's been active save Bizz (and sorta Refa, but he disappeared). You'd look strange if you started suspecting, say, Shinori, simply because he hasn't had a lot of content thus far (I see that vote, BTW).

I don't think it's worth pursuing ATM. Pick all you want, but that's my stance.

[BBM]

Not going to apologize for finding people scummy.

And you sidestepped the question again. >_>