Elieson Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Ughgg dealing with truancy I am even-night compulsive [role], so I have reasons to believe grass's claim at least on modifier alone. Also my role is irritating so I'm targeting the same person all game with it. I also buy his story regarding him targeting who prims said, only because I've done the same thing myself <I don't remember when ago>. His backpedalling seems properly done and the panic obviously is stemming from him being close to hammer. Yes, I'm defending grass. Objection, I feel like vhaltz summed up why his role is weird as scum what with watcher and all. I don't understand who he targwtted though. Objection, did you target sb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Yeah I'd prefer Grass over Objection. What Objection said seems more in line with his actions today and I thought Grass was worse anyways. Won't be here for deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 refa do you have any thoughts on the claims? you say an objection flip would help your bbm read but the whole "grass targeted bbm who for some reason idled" and "objection's result could be cleared by sb" makes me think a grass flip would be better for a bbm read :/ And it's stupid that he finds Grass suspicious for voting one of his town reads.how so? you don't vote people you think are town, because that is less likely to lynch scum. (unless you meant scum reads, in which case pls clarify) I'm not seeing why scum!me would continue to pursue a case on town!him.I made this point against grass too: just because you have independent thought does not mean it's not scummy. scum!you would keep pushing that because you don't have a better case to push instead. also the fact you're drawing full attention to "hey this is what I would'wouldn't do" reads like trying to force WIFOM -Objection's vote switch right after Manix stated that it was 6:6 and his wagon hadn't lost any steam reads as rather opportunistic to me.Don't understand this either. It's late in the day, and stated that he wouldn't really be around. Not Me Over Me is a legit reason to vote someone at deadline to avoid being lynched, because having yourself be lynched is anti-wincon (if town you're lynching the only person you know is town 100%, yourself, and if scum, scum loses numbers and can act under the pretense of town) -Also don't get why Grass would fakeclaim alt night roleblocker as scumPrims summed it nicely; he can go off and roleblock whoever on even nights without much fear of being found out. fakeclaiming full roleblocker bends the scum roleblock to town's needs, not scum's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 ughhh elie cut elie you seem to like defending people who are about to be lynched, and very close to deadline. one of them has flipped scum. correlation =/= causation but i don't like it at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 also refa: that first post was just some scrambled thoughts. I made a more detailed case against you later in the thread which you somehow missed/ignored (url=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=44672&p=2798281]here you go[/url]) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 also refa: that first post was just some scrambled thoughts. I made a more detailed case against you later in the thread which you somehow missed/ignored (http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=44672&p=2798281]here you go)you can tell i'm tired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 and if you'd like a tl;dr of that case, go here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 ugh, would have liked to stay awake until phase end, but alas also the lack of sb is saddening. i know i said i'd go for objection lynch earlier, but thinking about it i prefer a grass lynch. i think i stated enough about it in my postspams over the past few pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 After pondering it further I actually think Grass' claim sounds like a convenient as hell fake to allow the scum RB to get away with not taking responsibility for their target on even-nights. There's no reason I can think of to give a town roleblocker that nerf, or even make it compulsive. Good town roleblockers aren't idling anyway. This just doesn't make sense to me. Let's say that odd-night was a fake for every-night hooker. Wouldn't it be obvious N2 that there was an unclaimed probably-scum hook? Like, if I were faking, this just wouldn't hold up to further examination on later nights. ##Unvote ##Vote: Objection Not-me over me, still think he's scummy, and actually his claim makes me think he's more likely to be scum (although really it's him vs scorri, based on role). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Who all is in a timezone that allows them to be around at deadline? Apparently you are, I think SB is and I am, but anybody else? I'll probably be around at deadline maybe, my sleep schedule is really inconsistent. OK, I did not know there were only around 2 hours left. Seriously, you'd think someone would have mentioned this. I thought it's worth mentioning that my role PM never *told* me the name of my role. Being the n00b that I am, I only assumed it was follower because my night action trigger included the word 'follow'. Yeah, I'm that dumb. Bah, can noone read their role PMs with any degree of accuracy? I thought you were follower on my initial skim through. :\ Also looking at Objection's ISO, I still don't get why town!Objection would ask for SB's role if he had tracked him. There could have been numerous reasons for SB to target Shinori and considering Shinori isn't dead, this pointless rolefishing just makes me feel worse about Objection. And while I can see the town intent in asking who SB targeted (maybe being able to potentially catch SB out on a lie), I think that's a pretty lame method of scumhunting and I honestly don't see how scum could fall for that. Also in his next post, he says "I have a very good reason for rolefishing SB, since my role results last night said something very interesting about SB. SB, who did you target last night? Everything depends on this right now." which makes no fucking sense considering what his results were. refa do you have any thoughts on the claims? you say an objection flip would help your bbm read but the whole "grass targeted bbm who for some reason idled" and "objection's result could be cleared by sb" makes me think a grass flip would be better for a bbm read :/ Grass' claim is a null tell for me. I don't get why he'd fakeclaim that as scum, so I'm inclined to think the role itself is legit (if he's scum, there could be something else to his role I guess). Also yeah, I kind of read over that the first time, but I'm not getting what kind of reads can be gotten from that. Is Grass scummier for claiming to have targetted someone who idled? It's nice that SB can confirm if Objection is lying or not about his role, I guess. It'd be nice if he did that. Also with regards to flips and reads, you're probably right (certainly my point about Objection is no longer valid, I guess that's what happens when you respond to posts while reading the thread). And responding to your responses about me in order here, because again I'm very lazy. -Clarification: One of the reasons Vennobennu stated Grassbridger was suspicious is because he voted one of Venno's town reads (Shin). That's stupid. -Yeah, the opportunistic thing was dumb on my part, fsr I thought we had a lot more time than we do. -For the last part, I get that but I think Grass' defense makes sense. If there are 2 roleblocks happening every night, surely people would get suspicious of him? Meh, I think Objection is scummier overall still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Objection! Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 This just doesn't make sense to me. Let's say that odd-night was a fake for every-night hooker. Wouldn't it be obvious N2 that there was an unclaimed probably-scum hook? Like, if I were faking, this just wouldn't hold up to further examination on later nights. ##Unvote ##Vote: Objection Not-me over me, still think he's scummy, and actually his claim makes me think he's more likely to be scum (although really it's him vs scorri, based on role). If Manix didn't unvote me, this would've been a hammer. Thank You Manix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 What are the votals? Also Manix, I'll get around to responding to your case (didn't miss it, but forgot to write a response to it afterwards) but honestly not sure why you'd really care so much. It's not like I'm going to agree with you that I'm scummy. Oh...hammer. That's not scummy at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Wait, I read things wrong. Objection why learn to word things better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Objection! Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Wait, I read things wrong. Objection why learn to word things better Believe me, I get that a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhaltz Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Refa's post was tl;dr I only have like 5 minutes to read up and post Track is more likely to be town at this point although it's mostly based on watcher flip, the role can actually be proved tomorrow if SB backs up Objection and he provides another investigation result, unlike odd-night roleblock, where Grass!scum could just idle the block tonight and go "see, I was telling the truth!" Scum having tracker and watcher at the same time is not entirely unbelievable and apparently the anon game that just ended had a lot of setup spec punishment but still Lynch Grass guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Refa, if you think Objection is scummier then hammer him. Otherwise Vhaltz will hammer me, it seems. Oh wait, Objection claimed tracker? I know he said "follower" and i didn't catch him revising it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhaltz Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Then again last time I was in a game where town let somebody live to prove his claim the following day it turned out like shit. idk, just hoping there's hammer by the time I finish next class because I won't be able to check the thread during my last class (I tried this one because the lecture was boring and the wifi is just too shit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Believe me, I get that a lot. Nah, sorry about my reaction. Turns out it was just me being an idiot. Track is more likely to be town at this point although it's mostly based on watcher flip, the role can actually be proved tomorrow if SB backs up Objection and he provides another investigation result, unlike odd-night roleblock, where Grass!scum could just idle the block tonight and go "see, I was telling the truth!" Scum having tracker and watcher at the same time is not entirely unbelievable and apparently the anon game that just ended had a lot of setup spec punishment but still Lynch Grass guys. Ideally SB would get on before deadline and state whether Objection is truthing or not. I can understand why having a more easily verifiable role would be considered townier, but I've been bothered by Objection for like the whole day and I don't like to rolespec. Refa, if you think Objection is scummier then hammer him. Otherwise Vhaltz will hammer me, it seems. ughhhhhh why would you say that as town Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I'm assuming I'm going to get hammered soon and giving reads with that in mind. 1. Objection is actually ehhhh, content-wise. He's not as scummy as Venno. The content he has isn't noticeably worse than normal Objection content. He's still scummy for inactivity, and his content is awful, but if we were both alive tomorrow I'd think really hard as to whether that is normal. 2. Venno is scummy for reasons I've previously said today. 3. Shin's PR comment is really vague and I don't know whether to trust it. 4. Every role in this game appears to have lots of words/be somewhat complicated. I'm judging based on my role (compulsive odd-night roleblock), Eury's role (godfather watcher janitor), Shinori's role (wtf I don't even), and the number of people who have hinted at role shenanigans, including Prims (miller investigator) and scorri (she thinks I was responsible for Prims' roleblock even if I targeted BBM). This also makes me doubt Objection's tracker (?) claim because it's simpler than all of my other data points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhaltz Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Grass is scummier than Objection with rolespec aside I already said that before I'll be back in 45~ mins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 ughhhhhh why would you say that as town cause I don't want to be mislynched, and it seems like you're holding off on hammer because you don't want to hammer, which is scummy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Objection! Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 cause I don't want to be mislynched, and it seems like you're holding off on hammer because you don't want to hammer, which is scummy. Refa is already voting me you dumbass. Unless you want him to hammer YOU. This post sounds like desperation for me and I don't like it one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Other read: I don't find anyone scummy for finding me scummy/wanting me lynched, because I've played really badly, especially D1. But "rolespec aside" frustrates me because rolespec can be valuable, especially in a game like this that appears to have complicated roles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Refa is already voting me you dumbass. Unless you want him to hammer YOU. This post sounds like desperation for me and I don't like it one bit. Oh. Ha. You're right. And Vhaltz is already voting me, so he can't hammer me. I'm just not very good at this right now. Looks like everyone but scorri has voted on me or Objection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 *scorri and Manix? I've lost track of his vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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