Fire Emblem 6 Mafia: (Day 4)

[scorri]

Eury: I'm half asleep, was trying to make a post from a reread earlier in the day, didn't see Shinori's posts til after I posted. He just jogged my memory.

[Eurykins]

Yeah, I know and realized that, Scorri. It's why I said I have no issues with you overall as of right now. =P

[Bluedoom]

K so look at these walls.

@Prims: Yeah I disagree with Paper on the SB vote, so? I do think it could be just bullshit, so what's so wrong in me suspecting that? Also Rapier IS doing the silly shit he always does(posting a lot but not really getting anything clear is part of his meta) and the only would-be-sort-of-valid point being Rapier contradicting himself isn't true(since Rapier never stated that he thought Paper made a GOOD point)

@Rapier: You find Paper scummy because you want him to explain stuff and think he's keeping secrets, I find him scummy because I think his attempts are literally fake. Yeah, I don't care about the explanation there, because YOU MY FRIEND ARE TRYING TO FIND OUT SOMETHING WHERE THERE IS NOTHING.

in any case I'll ##Unvote ##Vote: Polydeuces

I'll chime in an echo scorri here: It really does look like you're trying to appease to Rapier.

[Bluedoom]

In other news:

Refa: I think your defence against SB's accusation is bad. Making jokeposts and not scumhunting DOES have scum intent in itself because scum can look like they're active and get away with it. The fact that you say SB makes a point against which you can't defend but he doesn't say how you're scum just makes you look bad and looks like you're trying to make him explain something out of nothing.

I'd sheep Vhaltz's case on bearclaw, 10/10, but I right now think Poly gets a bigger priority from me.

Since Paper hasn't posted anything relevant since I last voted him, my read hasn't really changed that much. Still, I do think Poly's a stronger scumread right now, and oh yeah, Rapier's huge walls of text and effort do look town by Rapier Meta.

@Eurykins: I personally don't think that was very defensive(FMPOV, if someone randomly voted me without reasons and there was already a wagon on me, I would be pissed).

[Paperblade]

There's so much tldr itg omggggg

Shinori's vote bugged me because we were clearly past the point of RVS purely on number of posts and he just conveniently voted me when Rapier and bear are already harassing me. He came back though so w/e

SB's new content hasn't really given me any reason in particular to think he's scum

@Prims: Why do you think that Rapier's zealousness comes from town?

I dislike how Poly went "Why are people voting Xin over Paper" then votes me then later switches to Xin. He finds Xin defensive which is scummy, but did SB's original remark not strike you as defensive?

Rapier, I found SB's content overdefensive because I don't think there was a need to try to shut down Vhaltz's line of thought the way he did. He reacted a lot more than I expected someone confident in their own townliness to do

This is exactly why I end giving up on Mafia. Can't deal with the huge amounts of posts and content.

:|

[Paperblade]

also where is MY BOY HELIOS

[Sunwoo]

The "Why Am I Still Awake" Votals

Paperblade (2): bearclaw13, Rapier
Rapier (3): Paperblade, Eurykins, Refa
Xinnidy (1): Polydeuces

bearclaw13 (1): Vhaltz

Refa (3): Xinnidy, Prims, SB.

Polydeuces (3): Shinori, scorri, Bluedoom

Voteless Dorks: Helios

With 14 voters, 8 votes equals a phase ending Hammer (although it's not necessary).

You have about 28.5 hours until Day 1 ends.

[Vhaltz]

Yeah ok I really dislike Shinori. On top of what I mentioned earlier about his odd Bear (prodvote) > Poly (case) priority, the token questioning bugs me pretty bad. Asking Paper if he's town is 100% useless post and the other two questions run in the way of "hey guys what am I? am I being town enough?" which doesn't appear to have any scumhunting intent behind it and reads like self-conscious scum wanting to appear to be actively contributing while finding out where people stand on him.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

Still heavily dislike Bear but my vote is essentially useless if he's just not around (didn't remember the signups warning), still want to see posts from him when he manages to be around or I'll support his lynch by deadline.

[Vhaltz]

The cases on Refa are ok but the reason I find myself slightly leaning scum on Refa is mostly due to the way he handled the suspicions on him in his second wall. He drops the suspicions on Xin and me after people call those out on being bad but keeps his scumread on Rapier (who still happens to be a wagon), which as a standalone point could come from either alignment but then there's something irking me really bad is in his reply to people disliking his Rapier case "OK, my calling your votes easy was a misrep, apologies for that."

If there's something I learned last game it's that appeasement isn't always a scumtell and town do it too, there's several instances of appeasement in the wallpost that could go either way, but that particular line I quoted just strikes me as the heavy kind of appeasement that I think is really unlikely to come from suspected town. I feel like Refa!Town would've tried to justify why it seemed like a good point at the time before dropping it.

Shinori = Bear >> Refa

SB where do you stand wrt Eury, Bear and Poly?

[charlie_]

None really left a strong impression tbh. I'll ISO skim I guess?

[charlie_]

Eury's a bit off to me because of her Rapier suspicion being based on him being active, essentially. I also don't really get why she did reads on almost every player when she only really had 2 scumreads that she doesn't waffle on.

Bear kind of bugs me I guess due to his Paper suspicion and "he hasn't said anything on SB in a while" but his vote was still there and I hadn't posted as much as Rapier anyway? idk I feel like his vote comes down to "you have a Rapier suspicion, why aren't you voting it" when Paper was already suspicious of me anyway.

Poly bothers me a bit because he just kind of planted his Paper vote then never mentioned him again until he unvoted.

I wouldn't call any of these (Bear aside, maybe) majorly suspicious, it's just sort of minor things that irk me.

[Shinori]

The cases on Refa are ok but the reason I find myself slightly leaning scum on Refa is mostly due to the way he handled the suspicions on him in his second wall. He drops the suspicions on Xin and me after people call those out on being bad but keeps his scumread on Rapier (who still happens to be a wagon), which as a standalone point could come from either alignment but then there's something irking me really bad is in his reply to people disliking his Rapier case "OK, my calling your votes easy was a misrep, apologies for that."

If there's something I learned last game it's that appeasement isn't always a scumtell and town do it too, there's several instances of appeasement in the wallpost that could go either way, but that particular line I quoted just strikes me as the heavy kind of appeasement that I think is really unlikely to come from suspected town. I feel like Refa!Town would've tried to justify why it seemed like a good point at the time before dropping it.

Shinori = Bear >> Refa

SB where do you stand wrt Eury, Bear and Poly?

Dis guy can't take jokes.

Wai you so sirry?

[Vhaltz]

If you're referring to what I think you're referring to, you quoted the wrong post

If you aren't then what

[Shinori]

I did indeed do that. I just woke up, I'm tired. I mainly did that stuff though as a joking around kind of thing. It's interesting seeing responses though. Prim's "Lolidk." type of response is what I would expect. Eury Ignored it and I think Paper ignored it as well idr. IF someone had answered it any differently I probably would have been interesting into seeing why.

Question Vhaltz: What's your opinion on Poly?

[Vhaltz]

Waffles. He has done objectively scummy stuff that I dislike but I had no trouble whatsoever pointing out objectively scummy things he did as town when I was scum last game so eh. Would consider lynching him if there's no other scummier options.

[Refa]

Marth

-Honestly don't see why Polydeuces would appease Rapier by voting for Xinny (someone who like noone wants to lynch atm) when there are much better townies he could be voting for and appeasing Rapier at the same time (coughmecough)

-I didn't make the appearance of being active though because I made one post without an RVS vote even and left for quite a while. Probably because I was like busy or something.

Paperblade

-Makes a good point about Polydeuces. I never got the impression that he felt better about w/e reason he found Paper scummy for went away, or that Xinny suddenly became a much stronger scumread.

Vhaltz

-I get where you're coming from in your Shinori case, but honestly his other posts as a whole made me think that he is town.

-I called his votes easy because it seemed like he could switch off them pretty easily, but I agreed with what he had to say about his votes.

-Actually, why would I be appeasing him if it's clear that I still find him scummy and am voting him? Like really, I don't see why I'd do that even as scum.

SB

-Don't really like his comment on the Eury wall, gives the impression of trying to paint townie actions in a bad light (also how is doing reads on like 6-7 players equivalent to almost every player in the game).

[Rapier]

Purely for flavor, guys:

Why do you think I was trying to deflect people off Xin, Rapier? I was just not liking how people gave Xin shit for the exact same thing Paper did. Although, Xin's posts seem defensive FMPOV, whereas Paper's taken everything in stride from I've seen out of him. Ergo:

##Unvote

##Vote: Xinnidy

Yeah but if you considered Xin's case as bad as Paper's why did you go for Paper instead and dismiss Xin completely? Your post sounded a lot like a "hey guys there's this guy who's doing the same scummy thing as this person above, look at him".

You didn't really answer the question, by the way.

I found Xinnidy sketchy at first but her response to Refa reads like frustrated town to me.

Rapier you should vote Refa. Paper isn't even still on SB.

Calm down. I don't like to do shit when it's 2:04 AM because I tend to screw up more than normal.

And I know Paper unvoted SB and voted me, claiming that my motives are stupid. What bugs me is that he still defends that logic but, as you said, we've gone a long way already.

@Refa

First off, what the hell. You sound like a Tsundere.

Rapier -Don't really like your Paperblade case though. Why is SB overdefending a legit reaction?

-OK, my calling your votes easy was a misrep, apologies for that. However, I still don't get your early voting strategy. Like why is Paper so much scummier than Xinny now? Because he didn't write enough?

-Firstly he calls me a hypocrite because I complained about his prodvotes yet my post was full of prods. OK, already stated I was misrepping him on the former, however I really don't see why my post was full of prods. I voted someone who I think will flip scum, not because said person didn't explain their vote priorities enough.

-And he doesn't even vote me for it. Like really, why is Paperblade more likely to be scum FHPOV than me? Pretty sure he even calls the Paperblade vote weak in his post. Eh...I guess this could be chalked up to town hesitancy, but I don't really think that's the case considering he's calling me a hypocrite and all.

- Oh, you can answer that question then. Why is SB's defense not a legit one and how is he overdefending himself? Why would it be considered better if he just ignored Vhaltz's vote because "lol your vote sux"?

Also:

-Did you find SB's post suspect/scummy because honestly what I said is how I read it as.

I'm confused. Do you think SB overdefended himself, do you think he was supposed to answer, do you agree with me, do you agree with Xin's or Paper's point or what?

- Kind of. Bear in mind that my votes went around page 3-4 and the content was pretty scarce. They're not solid reasons to vote someone but they seemed as good votes to get info from players which I wanted responses from, plus I don't like votes on nulltells because I find them opportunistic, so I think I had enough reasons to find some scum intent.

- I couldn't be absolutely certainly sure that Xin/Paper would flip scum on page 3-4 and I still can't be sure, because my case had ED1 Quality . I find her dislike on SB as bs, for reasons that I already stated, but I think she's leaning more for town right now. Read the first part of your post (http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=44963&view=findpost&p=2821659, I dislike IPB3) and you'll see that you're addressing very early content and calling people on for it, which I count as useless prodding.

"Your reasoning may be but jest, but even then your actions don't match up with your words. Why did you not vote for Rapier at the time?"- Refa, scumhunting extraordinaire, 2013

I can't believe you're being so serious over a RVS vote from Bear.

Also, since you admit you had misrepped me, please update your reasons to vote me and tell me why I am scummy again. Following what you said right now, most of your reasons have become obsolete:

His scumhunting amounts to a bunch of prodvotes and telling people their arguments aren't good enough. I don't think I've seen a single action from him where he actually looks at the scum intent of the person involved, yet he complains that Xinny and Paperblade are voting SB for what amounts to a null read; hypocritical much? Additionally, he's clogging up the thread with his prodvotes and defense of his superlame actions.

How can you be so sure that I'll flip scum from those reasons alone?

You said you were going to Unvote me, then you said you didn't because my next post was opportunistic because I complained about your prodvotes and because I voted someone for having a weak vote and not for having scum intent (I already addressed this a lot, it sums up to "I think voting someone for a nulltell is opportunistic". I know some of my posts are annoying to read, so I don't mind answering again if you make objective, specific questions). Once again, misrep.

You sound like the opportunistic one here, if your only reason to keep your vote on me is so... weak (wait, isn't voting for a weak reason considered bad in your books?)

Unvote

##Vote: Refa

@Euklynids

Are you going to insist that I'm some sort of mastermind who planned everything, antecipated responses and controlled the flow of the discussion? I honestly can't even think of an answer for this.

I admit I pressed Xin a lot. ... Sorry?

[Rapier]

Also, I don't like how Poly only noticed Xin now when he simply handwaved her when voting Paper.

I swear I'll stop with the walls of text, and I'm glad you guys stopped writing so many. It was annoying to play games with 20 pages by ED2.

[Da Bear]

Rapier if walls made you quit mafia why are you walling so hard? ;_;

Sorry for lack of posts, extremely busy yesterday and then I didn't sleep last night. I'll post some stuff like as soon as I get some reads from stuff other than skimming.

[Xinnidy]

Thank you Eurykins.

In note of this post...

[spoiler=moot point]

I do not find Rapier's argument against refa resumed them as 'easy prodvotes' as valid becaus it's a misinterpretation of what refa implied with prodvotes. Prodvotes in that context don't mean 'bugging/voting everybody that isn't active to post', though, ironically, you did plenty of prodding in your post after his.

The way I see it, they were certainly not 'easy' prodvotes (otherwise you wouldn't be picking a wall-to-wall fight somewhere there), but the fact you picked fights with most everybody that showed up so actively and magnified each thing can very well be an attempt to take control of D1's order.

Pedit: Considering Refa's response this is now kind of invalid poststretcher. I am wonderful at this.

The way you're lazy is that you've basically relegated yourself to report actions in that list. The three new opinions that were formed in that list are very poor.

-Going down on prims and shinori for 'lolvoting' and considering that 'anti-town in many ways' is extreme, and proddish. You're basically applying pressure to the only action they had done so far in the game as definitely bad. You might not be prodvoting, but you're definitely prodding with a starting negative read. And with your reads on me and paper, it can also be read as an afterthought afterwards.

-Your Marth read is also taken as pretty controversial by its final judgement. You actually leave a loose end. 'I don't like his response that much because it seems he doesn't even have a grasp of the situation' is selling it as a nulltell, believably or not. You have reason to strongly dislike his case, but you go handwaving it as a lack of attention/grasp. And even use a surprisingly amiable 'I don't like his response that much' for all the points you dropped.

Also, saying in such a way that I was basically your second biggest scumread because I was 'clinging to my SB vote' was extremely unfair considering all that happened was you digging a hole around me with little memorable content from others in-between, added up to a notable time since I last posted then. And the rest was prodding people.

I also do not acknowledge my SB vote as weak for the time it was made and kept, and haven't at any point so far.

[Xinnidy]

@Poly: When you say you dislike me for being defensive, I can only think you're claiming I'm trying too hard to get scumreads off of me, but it really looks like an awkward backstab considering up to a moment before that you were disagreeing with the amount of 'shit' you claimed people were giving me. A bazillion people noticed that though, probably because it's pretty glaring, and I want you to explain.

@Refa:

- The issue is not that you're getting a read off of my ED1 vote, but the kind of read you did. You're complaining that my ED1 read was bad in the sense that 'no one is going to be townie 100% of the time and I should look for scum intent instead of things that could pass as 'well it could be scum'.

Basically, I disagree that your scumread is valid in that regard not only because I personaly think I saw scum intent but the fact that punishing an ED1 read for going 'well it could be scum' doesn't seem logical in promoting pressure and content. I don't think it works because you can end up not having that much scum intention to dig unless you look hard and get content going.

- I did.

- ur a hypocrite because:

That's bad scumhunting. Noone is going to be the ideal perfect townie 100% of the time, so it's important to search for actions that specifically have scum intent. It's one thing if you felt his action had scum intent (according to your post, it just didn't benefit town), but saying that "well it could be scum" is a rather weak reason to be voting someone (especially since that could be applied to almost every other player).

and

The accusing side can never be absolutely certain that they'll catch scum barring extreme circumstances, and the defensive side being able to use it is fucking retarded. (...)Also it's a bit high of you to complain about someone's ED1 vote on a potentially null tell when you haven't had any stronger votes yourself.

You used the first point against me, you used the latter against rapier.

I feel these points can't possibly coexist here, especially not in the same post. Unless I'm missing something *big*.

- What I don't like is that, even though you said you didn't find my defense hypocritical, you still said it bothered you. And that feels like you wasted words to change nothing in the end. But you explicitly clarified that it's a null read now, so that's moot.

##Unvote

Empty unvote oh no.

I'm braindead and can't bother to look at half the game and headache. And I actually like Refa's new content. I don't want to jump on Poly yet because I'm a horrible person yadda yadda.

More on whenever my head stops ringing.

[Paperblade]

@Rapier: Well, yeah? If Vhaltz had made an argument like that on me as his first post of D1 that's what I would've done. I mean, we had a N0 so D1 isn't quite D1 but we didn't do shit N0 so w/e

I dislike how Refa is sort of making a list post but spreading it out over multiple posts

[Elieson]

First player to PM me a haiku about this game gets to sub in for Helios.

[Prims]

;_;

[Rapier]

@Rapier: Well, yeah? If Vhaltz had made an argument like that on me as his first post of D1 that's what I would've done. I mean, we had a N0 so D1 isn't quite D1 but we didn't do shit N0 so w/e

I dislike how Refa is sort of making a list post but spreading it out over multiple posts

Then why did you vote SB for being overdefensive if you confirmed now that you'd do the same?

I feel like I'm going in circles. I feel dizzy, like that bird/chick (chicks are bird) from Primsriver's sign.