Is Smogon too banhappy?

[Djing]

Flying types have been crazy buffed the past few generations. A Stealth Rock ban might open up a new can of worms.

[XeKr]

I dislike the term unhealthy. What actually is unhealthy for the metagame?

Unhealthy = "I don't like playing against it."

Duh, ;P

Snow cloak is analogous to sand veil. The fact that it has worse distribution and relies on a worse weather means nothing. It still boosts evasion, which is something that shouldn't happen. Not banning this abilities from the start was the error, IMO, which was actually justified, since not every pokemon had another ability to use. Now that every pokemon with either sand veil or snow cloak has other ability as well, nothing more fair than banning them.

BTW, learn what a complex ban actually is, because you clearly don't know.

I think Malebolganone’s point is why ban Sand Veil/Snow Cloak and not Garchomp, when you ban Excadrill/Blaziken, not Sand Rush/Speed Boost. Seemingly inconsistent.

I suspect that appealing to the precedent in Evasion clause made players feel better about banning it, despite everyone knowing it’s broken b/c of SubSD Garchomp. Evasion abilities feel inherently uncompetitive (even if only a single pokemon set is broken using it, and no one cares about Brightpowder/Tangled Feet/etc or even Sand Veil without infinite Sand), while Sand Rush/Speed Boost are not inherently uncompetitive, but apparently broken on certain pokemon.

Edited February 8, 2014 by XeKr

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Yeah, lets be honest, Sand Veil ban is a veiled excuse to unban Garchomp. The only relevant SV user is the Sub Acro Gliscor, who is not really broken(or is it spammed in one Smogon Tourney? I dunno), beside the old Sub SD Chomp set itself.

Its the same as:

"Why ban Sand Rush when Exca is the only relevant SR user?(lets face it, nobody gives a shit to Sandslash and Doge)"

"Why ban Speed Boost when Blaziken is the only good SB user?"

Now its

"Why ban Sand Veil and Brightpowder when Garchomp is the only pokemon who become a problem with those in the picture?"

Except in this case the smogonites have an excuse that SV is an evasion ability and evasion is an unholy abomination that should be purged out of existence

Note, I actually supported OU Garchomp because its a pretty ballanced pokemon in OU atm

As for banning stealth rocks, honestly starting from gen 5, it become a ballancing factor.

During Gen 5, the only pokemon who really rises up to upper tier with no Stealth Rock clause is Moltres. Rain still dominates the metagame because Ninetales is worse than Politoed. Charizard still shit. Yanmega still a gimmick. Dragonite and Kyurem Black become downright broken, and Volcarona is crazy shit. Lev Sash spam is also pretty bullshit.

Flash forward to gen 6, and we have a grand total of 4 pokemon who, at one point is 4x weak to Stealth Rock, and all of them are some of the biggest threat in the metagame(3 of which is deemed S Rank in the current viability rank)

Edited February 8, 2014 by JSND

[Redwall]

"Why ban Sand Rush when Exca is the only relevant SR user?(lets face it, nobody gives a shit to Sandslash and Doge)"

Stoutland is pretty good in Gen 5. Even putting aside its revenge-killing and late-game cleaning abilities (CB STAB Return is so good), you can use Stoutland to Pursuit-trap Politoed to a low enough HP such that Politoed dies to hazards and fails to trigger Rain on any subsequent switch-in.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Miikaya

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

its pretty rare in the ladder tho

I'm fan of stab normal type >_>