School of Hard NOCs - Night 6 ends on Mar. 15 at 9:00 PM HST

[Prims]

I suspected FFM all of day 1 and changed my vote to reflect the wagon I supported. Usually I play in games that require hammer to lynch so tbh I didn't consider he could just be deadline lynched but even so it's not scummy to put him at L-1. If somebody quickhammers they get held responsible for it and people usually don't quickhammer.

[Scarlet]

I suspected FFM all of day 1 and changed my vote to reflect the wagon I supported.

That in itself is not what I took issue with.

Usually I play in games that require hammer to lynch so tbh I didn't consider he could just be deadline lynched

That does make sense. Still kind of a lame excuse, though (read the rules, yo).

even so it's not scummy to put him at L-1. If somebody quickhammers they get held responsible for it and people usually don't quickhammer.

There's always the possibility that two people end up following this train of thought at about the same time. Whoops, accidental hammer! Not scummy per se, but still bad play in my book.

In any case, now that JB has been lynched, FFM has claimed and you seemed to be satisfied with Bal's defense, who do you think is currently scummiest?

Also, the other reads I promised:

- BBM seems to be genuinely putting effort into scumhunting and I find myself agreeing with a lot of his arguments. Leaning town.

- Mangokins: Slightly bad vibes from Mango, although I can't quite put my finger on why exactly (it might, however, have been him being busy I guess?). Eury on the other hand seems to be genuinely contributing, and while I don't agree with all of their logic, nothing stands out to me as particularly shady.

Would put at somewhere between null / slightly positive for now.

- SB I'm mostly null on. I feel like he should've given slightly more opinions on people other than his major scumreads, but nothing really strikes me as off about him.

- RD I didn't take issue with until SB started attacking him; I feel that RD's reaction was a bit too aggressive given that he wasn't exactly a lynch target at that point. Everything else he posted seemed pretty okay, though. Null.

SBs and RDs constant quarreling with each other says little about their alignment as far as I'm concerned. I could see it being either townies getting the wrong idea of each other or an elaborate scum attempt at dissociation between each other. It doesn't really stand out to me either way.

- Can't get a read on Kaoz as usual. He's asking a lot of questions while giving comparatively little reads himself, but IIRC he always does that.

SB and Kaoz, current reads please.

[charlie_]

wow i haven't posted in 6 pages

time to fix that

[Rajam]

I'm sorry for basically disappearing at the end of yesterDay. I got too distracted playing FE7 and for the same reason I got too behind in the game (in fact I haven't finished reading D1 yet), and I had no strong scum-reads other than Scarlet; finally I felt that whatever I would've posted would've just attracted more suspicion on me rather than accomplish whatever goal the post intended, because I only had observations from early-game to post. As a compensation I'll post later toDay some notes I've been taking from the game (would like to advance further in my read from D1 before posting them).

Kaoz, your read on Mango Sentinel?

Still uncomfortable with Scarlet, but my priority toDay is Fire Flower. His #151 is terrible: his first paragraph there is a what the hell¿? 'cause newbtown doesn’t have this overconfidence and sorta arrogance to defend their bad play, and a potential plan of being bad on purpose sounds fishy specially from a newbie.

##vote: Fire Flower

Shark Bait and BigPlaysMeteor leaning town, and pretty sure Prims and Randa (I'm assuming he's dead?) are town.

[Scarlet]

If FFM's #151 was so terrible, then why the heck did you not even once express any concerns at all with him when it was still D1?

I also find it curious that a single post like that apparently takes priority over the big case on me you had yesterday (and only does so now).

Any thoughts about FFM's tracker/follower claim while you're at it?

[Rajam]

Prims is Paperblade still a thing? In your #156 your main reason against him is meta and idk if there's something else, and I feel that your points observations against other players (Scarlet, Fire Flower, Mango) were/are worthier to push

[Rajam]

If FFM's #151 was so terrible, then why the heck did you not even once express any concerns at all with him when it was still D1?

I also find it curious that a single post like that apparently takes priority over the big case on me you had yesterday (and only does so now).

Any thoughts about FFM's tracker/follower claim while you're at it?

I guess you know now how behind I was/am.

That post from Fire Flower is that bad imo. There are other reasons for which I want to go against FF first, basically connection-related which I think wouldn't be wise to announce yet. I'll drop them later when I post my notes.

No really, claims per se aren't really a strong thing to push until there's a contradiction, and tracker is a role I've seen plenty of times both as a town and a scum role.

[Rajam]

Prims is Paperblade still a thing? In your #156 your main reason against him is meta and idk if there's something else, and I feel that your points observations against other players (Scarlet, Fire Flower, Mango) were/are worthier to push

Also Prims if meta is in fact still a thing you consider worth, which players do you think would/should support you in that regard?

[Scarlet]

I guess you know now how behind I was/am.

That would be an excuse... ...if that post from FFM wasn't from before you jumped on me yesterday.

In your #217, you specificially mention my post #157. FFM's #151 comes shortly before that, so I find it hard to believe you'd have missed it. You had ample opportunity to react to it D1.

[charlie_]

@Haze: you're scummy because you were defending Paper for no reason (or none that you actually want to give) and stick to just an easy attack on Frosty rather than looking for actual scum intent. I don't think Frosty is particularly townie but I'm defending him because the cases on him are just really bad.

@Eury: I didn't voteswap because while Bal was okay, his posts didn't do anything to erase my previous Paperblade read (especially with no scumspects.) His latest content is a bit better I guess, I don't the way he attacked Frosty is really scummy but at the same time I don't agree with it at all.

Shinori, were you serious about turboing bearclaw based off of one suggestion? If so, what the fuck? You go from finding nothing really scummy about him to wanting to turbolynch him out of nowhere. How does that happen?

Raymond, why is your vote still on Prims now that you've dismissed the thing you've found him scummy for as bad play? It also feels like a lot of your reads amount to "well, this person is null".

RD is still bad to me for reasons I've said before, and all he's done today is post noise that don't really contribute (and the same with phase end yesterday, iirc) like "oh man there's a jankill" and "modkills are lame, i don't have time to post tonight."

##Vote: Radiant Dragon

Not really interested in a Rajam lynch due to various things I think are townslips he posted.

[Rajam]

That would be an excuse... ...if that post from FFM wasn't from before you jumped on me yesterday.

In your #217, you specificially mention my post #157. FFM's #151 comes shortly before that, so I find it hard to believe you'd have missed it. You had ample opportunity to react to it D1.

That was because I made an ISO on you based on your initial posts

[Scarlet]

Raymond, why is your vote still on Prims now that you've dismissed the thing you've found him scummy for as bad play?

Mainly because I hadn't decided on whom else to vote for yet, and I still don't feel good about Prims.

It also feels like a lot of your reads amount to "well, this person is null".

Can't deny that. A good part of my new reads being null is probably the main reason why the players I have them on didn't grab my attention in the first place.

As for Rajam, his play makes no sense as any alignment or role other than fool, and considering SF's stance on fools... Yeah.

I really don't know what to do with him. By now I feel he's more likely to be town than scum, but he's really making me paranoid.

##Unvote

There's a couple of people I'd be willing to vote for at this point, but I want them to post first.

[FrostyFireMage]

This is true. My action did succed last night, but it was not related to Randa at all.

Can you make a claim in order to prove this?

[charlie_]

There's no reason for a roleclaim just to prove that her action worked?

[Rajam]

Fire Flower why did you pick Mango/Eurykins?

[FrostyFireMage]

Poly was rather suspicious when he was playing, so I wanted to see if I could get a good read on his sub.

[Eurykins]

@Kaoz: Hmmm... I see your logic there. Fair enough.

@SB: Fair enough. So in regards to Paper's sub, Bal, what current vibes are you getting from him?

@Fireflower: My word alone should suffice to verify your claim, imo. No sense in outing more information than need be.

Nice to see Rajam up n' postin' again~

@Rajam: What're your current reads/thoughts on everyone else so far (that you haven't mentioned yet)?

[BBM]

Sorry guys; I was having some internet troubles last night and this morning but they seem to be better now.

I reread a bit and I think I'm going to go with ##Vote: Haze.

I feel like his entire D1 was just parking on the biggest wagons. It's true that in both cases he voted people before they were wagons. However, other than explaining the reasons behind the initial vote, never really said anything about Rajam until he unvoted. And then his unvote reasoning escaped my notice yesterday, but it was basically that he still found Rajam suspicious but wanted to put more pressure on FFM. This is fine, but if you're voting someone for pressure you have to keep pushing them. After voting FFM, he defended it right after to SB, and then the next time he said anything about FFM was just to summarize a whole bunch of his posts as "nothing over and over". I mean, yeah, his posts weren't great, but there was a lot more there than those first two posts talking about RVS jokes Haze and SB made that Haze initially voted him for.

I also feel that Haze's reply to SB was kind of defensive. What was wrong with what SB said? There were almost two days between Haze's FFM vote and SB's comment about Haze's vote there being a park.

That being said, @SB- If you're allowed to defend FFM because you think the votes against him are bad, why isn't Haze allowed to do the same with the Paperblade votes?

[charlie_]

Haze has basically been defending Paperblade but hasn't really been saying why the attacks that people've made on him have been bad, aside from some shit like "x uses meta in his case" but then he ignored people like me who had other reasons for finding Paper suspicious.

@Eury, I don't think Bal is scummy (or townie) but because of Paper I don't like the slot as a whole.

[Shinori]

I forgot this day phase had started.

Let me get caught up.

[Rajam]

@Kaoz: Hmmm... I see your logic there. Fair enough.

@SB: Fair enough. So in regards to Paper's sub, Bal, what current vibes are you getting from him?

@Fireflower: My word alone should suffice to verify your claim, imo. No sense in outing more information than need be.

Nice to see Rajam up n' postin' again~

@Rajam: What're your current reads/thoughts on everyone else so far (that you haven't mentioned yet)?

Null:

- Your slot concerns me in the sense that I'm not getting much from you. Shinori and Haze fall in the same category.

- Radiant Dragon's #148 wasn't very good; the things he said there were just a list of actions made by some players, but there is a lack of analysis of motivation behind such actions. Despite this RD is still more on the null side than scum. I had a question though: RD, in #148 you said some posts from Scarlet gave you a good impression. Which were those posts?

- Paperblade's actions related to my wagon are weird; I agree with the analysis BPM gave in his #170, but Paper dropping off my wagon could obey a motivation of not wanting to lynch so early in the game as well. Also, another thing that has me on the fence is his defense-jump on dragonfang at the beginning of the game, and I also think several players are discarded at this point as his potential scummates (BPM, Haze, SB, Prims)

- I think Kaoz lacks a townier motivation. Don't know if he's just being lazy or something similar or if he is scum.

[Rajam]

I didn't realize this game would be such a time investment. Ugh. So much reading.

@ Haze: The above reason is pretty much the reason why I haven't been active. Didn't really know what I was getting into, lol. Probably against your best interests to vote for me though.

Anyway, I'm getting suspicious of Paperblade. Not posting very often (maybe using being busy as an excuse?) and disliking the Rajam sheeping without any reasoning strike me as scummy. Also other players seem to know his play-style so may as well listen to what they have to say.

Rajam just strikes me as someone trying too hard now. If he wanted to draw suspicion anyway from himself you would think he would tone it down.

##Unvote

##Vote: Paperblade

Who were all these players? I just remember Prims being suspicious of Paper for meta (play-style)

[Shinori]

Frankly it looks like nothing has happened except janitor killing or something.

BORING. Post coming later.

[Haze]

[spoiler=Sharkie and BBM]

@Haze: you're scummy because you were defending Paper for no reason (or none that you actually want to give) and stick to just an easy attack on Frosty rather than looking for actual scum intent. I don't think Frosty is particularly townie but I'm defending him because the cases on him are just really bad.

Haze has basically been defending Paperblade but hasn't really been saying why the attacks that people've made on him have been bad, aside from some shit like "x uses meta in his case" but then he ignored people like me who had other reasons for finding Paper suspicious.

@Eury, I don't think Bal is scummy (or townie) but because of Paper I don't like the slot as a whole.

This is a joke, right? I mean are you fucking serious right now SB?

I encourage anyone to go and read my posts on the Paperblade wagon just to see how full of shit SB is right now. I had posts where I went over every reason that had been given for votes on him and responded to them.

I also feel that Haze's reply to SB was kind of defensive. What was wrong with what SB said? There were almost two days between Haze's FFM vote and SB's comment about Haze's vote there being a park.

That being said, @SB- If you're allowed to defend FFM because you think the votes against him are bad, why isn't Haze allowed to do the same with the Paperblade votes?

It's not even me being defensive so much as me getting fed up with having to reply to his shit logic and blatant lies like above. I get grumpy when I have to seriously acknowledge something I cannot take seriously.

Allow me to articulate.

SB is doing this weird thing where he does little things that I'd do if i were scum, but he's not doing them well. Such as smudging people (read: dropping subtle unneccessary little jabs at people in otherwise unrelated content as a way of making them look worse without actually commiting to anything.) Only he's not being subtle about it.

He's also misrepresenting people to make them look worse. Only I'd usually only try that on people who have been shown to be poor at articulating or debating points, as they're less likely to be able to rebuff it. Only he's doing it to RD and myself, both of whom are capable of defending themselves against it.

I honestly cannot tell whether he's a bad scum player or whether he's a townie that's tunneling so hard that he's looking straight past posts and content that weaken his argument and the smudging and misrepresenting is a result of this.

Having to read and reply to SB's posts has honestly half killed my motivation to come to the thread at this point. I was playing Yggdra Union but then I felt guilty about not checking in on mafia and oh boy more goodies from SB.

I shall try to be less emotional in future.

As for actual content (half of my time in this thread is spent writing reactionary posts I swear to god.)

My opinion of FFM has gone up a lot. His posts in the last few hours of Day 1 and so far in Day 2 are noticably improved, so I'm glad he wasn't lynched. Can't be happy about JB being lynched, but hey.

Additionally to get into rolespeccing, while a Tracker can easily be both town and mafia, I'm not entirely convinced of the use of a scum Follower. What advantage is there to the mafia finding out if someone's action succeeded? I think it's fairly safe to assume (it's a Clipsey game afterall,) that everyone has an active ability at this point, yes even Mr. PGO, so it's not as though the mafia could use that as a way to determine who is a potentially juicy target.

I feel the only use of that following mechanic is to catch someone in a lie. Scum don't have any use for that, and unless FFM and Eury are scumbuddies, I'm willing to say FFM is about as close to clear as he can be on day 2 given that his role is confirmed.

Feel a bit better now, did something I'm good at (rolespeccing,) as opposed to something I'm shit at (scumhunting.)

I'll post more in the morning, it's getting late.

For now though, not opposed to lynching SB obviously, but I'd like a second opinion.

Would not support a wagon on FFM.

I'll sleep on the rest.

[Balcerzak]

Don't have a lot of time to reply at the moment, small break here switching games while LANing with friends.

- Wary of PaperBal again. However big his explanation may have been, he still ended up jumping on the easy FFM wagon simply for the latter being a defensive, unexperienced newbie and making simple newbie mistakes that tell little if anything about his alignment.

Honestly I was damned if I do, damned if I don't. I could have voted Shinori, but there wasn't really wagon support, so it was either the easy FFM wagon or the easy JB wagon. :/

Since little has changed since my previous, and I haven't gotten the time to do a serious update on my reads, I dont' see why I shouldn't start with a

##Vote: Shinori