School of Hard NOCs - Night 6 ends on Mar. 15 at 9:00 PM HST

[Prims]

RD Is meh. I didn't really read his post I guess I should but my annoyance with Prims has me to unable to respond. Apparently the Elitist prick that spends most of his posts this game trolling feels like he's better than everyone again. It's okay now I remember why I disliked you in the first place. By the way can I ask you what your full reads are? Scum wise I mean because honestly you seem okay with lynching a shit ton of people. Throw mud at BBM, okay with lynching me, okay with lynching RD, Eury is defintely scum, weirdness that no one targeted the one claimed newb guy I guess this could be mud slinging as well, Wants to lynch kaoz, Said he's going to look at like 4 people and never followed through.[/size]

Seriously who do you actually think is scum and who do you want to lynch that isn't everyone? Stop posting pages of bullshit get off your high horse and actually do something you pretentious fuck.

lmao i didn't actually read this until now

[Prims]

wow quote got mangled for some reason

the quicktopic thing is interesting.

[Prims]

shinori did you actually read my case on kaoz?

we're not lynching raymond today, let's be real.

if nobody's interested in kaoz I'll support a lynch on RD, and then FFM after that. I think FFM's posting has been lazy even for a newbie, to the point of downright not dropping a vote with less than 24 hours to deadline.

I decided Bal is alright. Confused why he'd post a Shinori case then go "Shinori did make a good point here though" when it wasn't really relevant though. Paper posts still read scum to me but Bal's huge post is good enough for me to prioritize other people higher; just wish he'd say more today.

[Prims]

tbh I want to policy vote Shinori for being a whiny baby because I wrote a post clearly expressing suspicion of Kaoz and RD and intent to lynch them and he's making a huge fuss over nothing.

[Shinori]

And you also posted tons of other "I'd lynch this person" posts about tons of other people. Have one or two doesn't change the fact that it seems you'd be fine with lynching just about anyone.

[Shinori]

Shinori: did you take #460 from a quicktopic or something?

No.

[Shinori]

tbh I want to policy vote Shinori for being a whiny baby because I wrote a post clearly expressing suspicion of Kaoz and RD and intent to lynch them and he's making a huge fuss over nothing.

I'm inclined to policy vote you for being an ass and an Elitist prick if you want to be petty.

[Prims]

And you also posted tons of other "I'd lynch this person" posts about tons of other people. Have one or two doesn't change the fact that it seems you'd be fine with lynching just about anyone.

ok. how does me being willing to lynch multiple people warrant a temper tantrum

[Shinori]

Cause it's not 'multiple people' you're willing to lynch too many people imo.

And you can call it a temper tantrum if you want. You're still an elitist prick and an asshole a fair amount of the time.

[Prims]

uhhhhhh I'm sorry for not having arbitrary town reads on half the playerlist I guess? Honestly it'd be weirder if I did because it'd imply I know why people are town. I also don't really think I'm being an elitist prick, or at least I'm not acting any different than I usually do. If you're mad at me for calling you out for doing dumb shit then don't do shit you know is dumb.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

I'm changing my mind on this because his appeal to emotion has been completely unwarranted and unnecessary and reminds me of how I overreacted to Bard in Unnamed.

[eclipse]

1. Do I need to put "keep it civil" in gigantic-point blinking rainbow colors?

2. Kaoz has been prodded.

[Prims]

replace "If you're mad at me for calling you out for doing dumb shit then don't do shit you know is dumb." with "If you're mad at me for calling you out for making anti-town actions then don't do what you know is anti-town" then, same thing but less coarse

[Shinori]

uhhhhhh I'm sorry for not having arbitrary town reads on half the playerlist I guess? Honestly it'd be weirder if I did because it'd imply I know why people are town. I also don't really think I'm being an elitist prick, or at least I'm not acting any different than I usually do. If you're mad at me for calling you out for doing dumb shit then don't do shit you know is dumb.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

I'm changing my mind on this because his appeal to emotion has been completely unwarranted and unnecessary and reminds me of how I overreacted to Bard in Unnamed.

I'm not ATEing at all. And you aren't chaning how you normally act, NORMALLY you are an elitist prick I just generally remembered how to ignore it. I'm also not mad at you for calling me out for stupid shit. However some of things you say definitely aren't calling someone out for stupid shit and are just you trying to be funny by being an asshole.

I should probably stop though cause this won't get anywhere. I've had this argument before with you and you never changed then. Sooooooooooo

I'll stop talking about this.

[Prims]

~______~

##Unvote

##Vote: Kaoz

[Prims]

Shinori, regardless of your thoughts on me being a jerk, what's your opinion on the Kaoz vote? Your only mention of him recently has been in reference to my post.

[Haze]

Haze, do you think SB is scum?

Definitely leaning that way but I thought there was a higher chance of me being wrong about that than there is of me being wrong about Shinori.

Though

Technically I'm not allowed to take some roles and Eclipse said she'd told me which roles.

makes his claim more believable and BBM's plan of having him take mayor and then looking at the votals to confirm makes sense and I'm surprised I let that slip by me.

Probably because mayor votes appearing on votals kind of blows my mind.

With that said:

##Unvote

##Vote: SB

Prims' Kaoz case seems fairly solid. I'd noticed the coasting in the second half of day 1 but I think I subconciously dismissed it because I seem to remember that being standard Kaoz fare? On the other hand I'm not sure why I let meta sway me there, bit stupid (and hypocritical,) of me.

He's been prodded so I'll wait to see his post, willing to throw my hat into the wagon if it isn't satisfactory though.

[Haze]

(Seriously though Rolebomb Martyr has to be on that list of things he can't take, because that just wouldn't be fair.)

[Scarlet]

If you aren't gonna involve meta then why do you keep saying things like "Shinori's been acting weird all game." How can you classify what I do as weird if you don't know what I normally do. So either you WERE using meta and it was just false or you weren't using meta and you were just trying to act like you knew my meta. Cause you can't know what is normal for me and what's not.

Because you were acting weird in relation to what I expect from a townie gameplay-wise. Sure, everyone has different ideas of what to do, how to handle certain situations and what to make of certain things, but you gotta draw the line somewhere.

There now that that's out of the way. What exactly is wrong with my voting pattern? You said you didn't like it but stated nothing of the sort of what's wrong with it.

Half of your votes were on the easy wagons with weak reasoning, and only after they were already fairly large.

Granted, when you voted FFM, you did state there were other people you'd rather lynch, but still.

Although I guess your insistence on voting me today (and being the only one to do so at this point) is an argument in your favor, so I'm no longer feeling as strongly about this point.

Why should I have to explain why I feel someone is town? It's not required, the gist of the fact is I think he's town, or was town, and I didn't want to lynch him. OH WAIT A SECOND. I actually kind of did state some of my reasons for thinking he was town, right.

You definitely ought to explain your reasoning for it when the person you feel is town has a rapidly growing wagon on them. Think about it for a second.

And again, I didn't see any reasons in your posts for why you felt Paperblade was town. I requested a quote of your reasoning in case I really did miss it, so where is it?

I mean you said here that I basically voted FFM for no reasoning. or that it didn't at least follow the reasoning the jb did.

...you do realize that was directed at Bal, right?

I'm not gonna bother responding to everything else you wrote because it has nothing to do with the game, and I'm not gonna take shit from you just because you're taking a game too seriously.

However, since it seems that part of Shinori's overreaction to my posts was due to a misunderstanding rather than malicious intent (and I'm getting the impression he's being genuine), I'm willing to at least give him a chance to prove his role.

##Unvote

##Skewer with a dull blade: Balcerzak

Same reasoning as before.

No longer supporting a Shinori lynch, at least not today.

Would consider switching to Kaoz or maaaybe RD/SB (would have to reread in their case, though) if necessary for the lynch to go through.

[Kaoz]

I deeply apologize for the incoming wall of text.

[spoiler=Responses, comments, reactions]

@BBM

Misread what you wrote, my bad.

@Fire Flower

Why did you not use the Tracker? If we compare the benefits between Tracker and Follower (since SB commented on this, did you actually ask about the role name?) for the town and mafia respectively, it's much better for the town to use the Tracker. Keep in mind that the rules say there's no need for fakes, hence the mafia probably won't be using any (if BBM or someone wants to refer to Healer here, it's true that BBM didn't quite claim his role, but he wouldn't have been caught by FF's role regardless).

The Tracker on the other hand can potentially find a killer and if you're mafia, it doesn't advance their position the vast majority of the time. So unless you (or anyone else) can provide good reasons for using the Follower, please use the Tracker from now on.

Also, FF not getting blocked doesn't mean anything in my opinion, basically what BBM said in #454.

@Haze

#424: You can make that argument for the Follower either way. What use does it have for the town if all it confirms is whether actions succeed or not?

@Bal

#425: There have been a number of comments about the FF wagon being easy, but from what I recall (this is to be taken literally, I'm doing little to no rereading), you're the first one to state that the JB wagon was. Care to elaborate on that? Do you feel any of the people that voted JB are scummy for it? Also, even if you feel that the JB wagon was easy, wasn't the FF wagon even easier? Or did you have reason to believe that JB would flip town?

@Prims

#435: The reason why I ended up not asking (I did consider it) was that one, there wasn't a lot of time left in the phase when I made that post and I'm not good at casebuilding, so I didn't think I'd get people away from the popular wagons within 12 hours (during which I wouldn't even be available for the most part), and two, it wasn't a very strong read (in fact I had initially gotten a town vibe from BBM's posts before he started feeling weird), so I just simply wasn't overly confident in it to begin with and was quite frankly okay with him not getting lynched at that point.

#444: I don't want to get too much into this, but the idea behind name killing is that you don't care about stuff like that. Like how you got name killed in Inception despite having votes on you.

@Rajam

#404: Pretty null. Eurykins' big reads post at the end of D1 (the spoilered one) felt off to me at first, but after comparing it to a previous game I'm not sure anymore. I expressed concerns about Polydeuces before as well, but that might've been because of a bad post rather than a scummy one. I feel like I should reread her/them, but I really don't feel motivated enough to do at this stage.

#421: Unmotivated might be the word you're looking for.

Shark Bait and BigPlaysMeteor leaning town, and pretty sure Prims and Randa (I'm assuming he's dead?) are town.

The bold part stands out to me. You clearly hadn't read the update or any comments related to the kill (else the entire part in brackets wouldn't make sense), so why would you make that assumption? Clearly it wasn't just because he was a town read either given that you name Prims in the same line. Could it be that you knew he died because you saw the action in the scum topic/PM/whatever?

Also where are those notes you promised? Copy pasting them here shouldn't take much time. Lastly, have you been mafia in any recent SWF game? If so, could I get a link for future reference?

[spoiler=Reads]

I don't like Shinori's posts, but the argument he had with Prims doesn't read fabricated to me and makes me feel he's town, so I wouldn't want to lynch there. I also feel better about BBM and in hindsight might have been a bit paranoid about him since I went into the game with the feeling that as scum, he would tend to only slip up early game but play very solid otherwise (I don't know how accurate that impression actually is, but it felt like that to me in Healer and EO2).

RD's content might not be great, objectively speaking, but then stuff like his #458 just sounds very townie to me. The "I'd vote for both of these people if I could" feels to me like he's confident in his reads in a way he wouldn't be as scum, and his overall thought process (for instance how he acknowledges BBM's comment in #456) seems genuine (#456 just reads super townie in general).

I feel like there's scum between SB and Haze, but I don't think both of them are - don't think they'd be able to go at each other like they've been doing if they were. I dislike them for different reasons though, so I'm not quite sure who I find worse. Like, SB's content seems better, but he just feels scummier to me? I can't quite place it. Oh and I guess SB feels somewhat inconsistent in picking his cases? Like, he's been arguing with Haze about defending Paperblade all day, but I believe I did pretty much the same thing and he hasn't been taking issue with that at all, and if memory serves I commented on something similar D1 regarding the FF and Paperblade wagons.

For now though, I think I'll go with

##Vote: Bal.

For the stuff Raymond pointed out as well as what I took issue with earlier in this post (which I suppose is really an extension of Raymond's argument).

Would also be ok with SB or Haze (I guess if you held a gun at my head I'd go with SB over Haze), or possibly Eurykins if I ever find the motivation to reread her or a good case against her pops up.

Since this whole thing took me like three hours though, I'm done for the time being. Also, if people feel the need to wagon me, I'd appreciate it if they did so within the next 8 or so hours rather than when I'm asleep.

(As an aside in this context, I find it quite amusing that people apparently think I'd feel the need to fake claim Miller.)

[BBM]

Do not support Balcerzak wagon; "pushed FFM for mistakes that apply more to newbs than scum" applies to basically everyone who voted FFM.

Honestly the only person who's a wagon that I want to lynch today is RD.

I'd also lynch Kaoz (but not really a wagon); I don't like that Kaoz stuck his vote on me for such a large portion of D1 if I wasn't even a strong read of his. And the bit about me playing better as scum as the game goes on is probably true but could have been said yesterday as well as today. Mentioning it as he drops his case feels like a smudging attempt.

[BBM]

I also don't understand why it would be so OP for Shinori to take over JB's role- it's just a 1-shot vig that kills itself.

[Kaoz]

Do not support Balcerzak wagon; "pushed FFM for mistakes that apply more to newbs than scum" applies to basically everyone who voted FFM.

It's about how he did it.

I don't like that Kaoz stuck his vote on me for such a large portion of D1 if I wasn't even a strong read of his.

Didn't have a better one.

[Rajam]

##unvote

From Fire Flower's #151 I also got a strong impression that him vs Mango was SvS, since the accusation made there looks very unlikely from newbscum to make against town (one of the reasons why I wanted to push against FF first). This master theory crumbled though because of Fire Flower's track onto Mango's slot, and because from #190 I'm reading Eurykins as town, since he seems genuinely lost in there yet at the same time I can see scum-hunt attempts. Not saying Fire Flower is not scum, rather than he falls on priority due to this and it'd be best to keep a tracker around for a while in case he's town.

[Haze]

I also don't understand why it would be so OP for Shinori to take over JB's role- it's just a 1-shot vig that kills itself.

I'm not talking about JB (though a potential town for mafia trade is good, the misfire chance balances it out,) I'm talking about Bearclaw's active ability.

'Night X - Protecting PLAYER. If PLAYER would die, you will die in their place. The person responsible for the killing will lose their role permanently (if they have one).'

Potentially taking away two mafia roles while denying them the kill they wanted is bonkers.

[Rajam]

Fire Flower what did you edit in your #195? What's your read on RD?