Is calling the FE series "strategic" accurate?

[solrocknroll]

Fire Emblem is strategic, but calling anywhere near Advance Wars levels of difficult strategic is not at all true.

[dondon151]

i haven't played advance wars very much, but from what i have played, it is easier to figure out how to S rank most AW maps than it is to figure out how to LTC most FE maps.

[sirmola]

i haven't played advance wars very much, but from what i have played, it is easier to figure out how to S rank most AW maps than it is to figure out how to LTC most FE maps.

This is because advance wars is completely deterministic. There is no randomness whatsoever. As such, either a strat works or it does not. Reliability is not an issue like in fire emblem. I honestly prefer randomness as it adds replay value.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

actually there is abit of randomness, if your damage isn't a round number then it has a chance of doing one more damage

[Makaze]

actually there is abit of randomness, if your damage isn't a round number then it has a chance of doing one more damage

Is that calculated randomly or does it round itself to the nearest integer?

[Gryz]

Damage has a random element.
An attack with a 95% rating against a full HP unit might completely destroy the unit or leave it at 1 HP.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

though Sonia i believe has a lower % chance of her attacks doing less damage if its split like the 95% example.

[sirmola]

Damage has a random element.

An attack with a 95% rating against a full HP unit might completely destroy the unit or leave it at 1 HP.

Didnt't know that. Still vastly less randomness than FE though.

[Tamanoir]

though Sonia i believe has a lower % chance of her attacks doing less damage if its split like the 95% example.

Not sure (I actually think it's the opposite). Nell can some time inflict more damage, because she's "lucky", boosted by her COs

Flak had a chance to inflict more or less damage, boosted by his COs.

[Rehab]

Anybody know if the Advance Wars AI is a little bit random? When I was small and weak I followed a turn-by-turn walkthrough (very weak) through the first one, and on some chapter the AI made a move that went against what the walkthrough said would happen. Being like 10 I might've gone a little nuts, so I restarted the chapter and did everything exactly the same, and that time the AI totally lined up with the walkthrough's instructions

Or is that small degree of randomness just how both series' AIs tend to work?

One thing about S-ranks versus LTC is that the former is about more static values, or rather ratios (for example, one can inflate the survival stat by producing a bunch of infantry that don't do anything to hit the target proportion of units that didn't die)- if you hit the requirements, you can play objectively worse (both take longer, lose more units and kill less enemies) and still get the S. There may be practical limits to how fast one could possibly do an LTC run, but the point is to push them as hard as possible. Vaguely analogous to viewing "winning a marathon" as being first to finish VS viewing it as just finishing while the marathon's still technically on.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Rehab

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

it depends on the game, earlier games's AI were more patterned.

later games made the AI bit more random.

i am speaking about advance wars for the record

Edited May 6, 2014 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[Cowboy Karimov]

Of course FE is a strategy game. Would the tactician Avatars exist otherwise? :P

They probably would. What class the main character is doesn't really have anything to do with what box the game may or may not fit into. Plus "Tactician" is a good class name anyway.

I'd say yes, FE is tactical. It's just like how Risk is as well. Both involve a large amount of chance, although since you may formulate a plan before play(such as "concentrate troops in Americas, then let opponents come to me"), it can be considered tactical.

Also, @Rehab They probably put the random AI in to make you create a backup plan. They wanted to make the game harder, while also introducing one of the quintessential parts of strategizing, being flexible.

Edited May 6, 2014 by HeavyBrawlsGuy

[Rehab]

Yeah, of course now I generally have in mind things like holes in my formations and areas of threat, but when I was 10 I just wanted to hit without getting hit

[Ledah*]

Yes it is there are several aspects like resource/risk management that make the game "strategic".

Plus as much you can criticize the system the random values are there to provide gameplay longevity plus add the natural randomness elements of a real world battle. Like using a known example how the "Kamikaze" incident on an early Japan x Mongol war made Japan win the war by more or less sheer luck.

[Snowy_One]

Making the right moves is tactics. Having backup plans or at least improvising well when the RNG fucks you is tactics. This isn't hard.

This.

[arvilino]

Is that calculated randomly or does it round itself to the nearest integer?

Excluding a few exceptions(based on characters) most of the time there's a 0-10%(random but evenly distributed) bonus damage whenever a unit in Advance Wars attacks. The damage is rounded down so 99% damage will only deal 9 HP out the maximum of 10 HP units have.

For example if an attack displays 95% like mentioned earlier the bonus damage allows this to go from 95 to 105%. Which gives 6/11 chance of dealing 10 points to the enemy(if the bonus damage is between 5% and 10%) and 5/11 chance of just dealing 9 points of damage( if the bonus damage is between 0 and 4%).

Edited May 8, 2014 by arvilino

[Tables]

Excluding a few exceptions(based on characters) most of the time there's a 0-10%(random but evenly distributed) bonus damage whenever a unit in Advance Wars attacks. The damage is rounded down so 99% damage will only deal 9 HP out the maximum of 10 HP units have.

For example if an attack displays 95% like mentioned earlier the bonus damage allows this to go from 95 to 105%. Which gives 6/11 chance of dealing 10 points to the enemy(if the bonus damage is between 5% and 10%) and 5/11 chance of just dealing 9 points of damage( if the bonus damage is between 0 and 4%).

Just to add to that, the game does store every unit's HP out of 100, so if you make a 95% attack and then a 5% attack, you're guaranteed to kill the enemy.

And, yeah, Advance Wars isn't deterministic. There's actually quite a bit of randomness in getting the best scores, especially in Dark Conflict where the AI is more random and the scores all go up to 150 in each category - with the categories now being much more 'accurate' than AW1,2,DS (Power now requires making strong attacks and killing enemies, not just killing 1/10 in one day. Technique requires building as few units as possible relative to the enemy, not at least 5 times how many you lost. Speed is the same, although 150 points in speed is usually impossible). All this together means that getting the best scores is VERY RNG dependent, possibly even more than FE - and often you don't even know what the best possible score is, you're flying blind to do as well as possible. Just to give an example: enemy moved a unit onto a plain instead of a road? Now your attack deals 49% instead of 55%, which is going to lose you one point in power even though you destroy the enemy. Those two 45% attacks? Need to land a kill or reset.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Tables

[Baldrick]

There's really that little margin? I know S ranks are optional and supposed to be difficult, but that just seems unfair.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

There's really that little margin? I know S ranks are optional and supposed to be difficult, but that just seems unfair.

welcome to random ai and how it impacts the gameplay.

i think it was mentioned before but if you dare to follow day to day guides, or atleast read them, you'll notice how AW1 and 2's are pretty much gonna happen exactly. however with DS and DoR due to the randomization there's alot more mentions of "if the ai does this instead of that, restart".

[Tables]

There's really that little margin? I know S ranks are optional and supposed to be difficult, but that just seems unfair.

I'm not sure if you're referring to my post or not, but if so, note I was talking about maxing out scores, not getting S ranks. I'm not really that great at Advance Wars but I have all 64 campaign maps/trial maps S ranked, I think possibly all breaking 320 points as well. But I'm still way off max scores (in most maps at least).

[Rehab]

welcome to random ai and how it impacts the gameplay.

i think it was mentioned before but if you dare to follow day to day guides, or atleast read them, you'll notice how AW1 and 2's are pretty much gonna happen exactly. however with DS and DoR due to the randomization there's alot more mentions of "if the ai does this instead of that, restart".

(except for the times when they don't)

*gets an AI unit move one tile off target*

*cries*

*screams*

*abuses gameboy*

*fumes*

*tells parents to throw the cartridge out the window of a moving vehicle*

*fumes more*

*puts it back in, restarts*

*gets the AI to move on target*

*I am the greatest strategist of all time*