Best Hard Mode

[Jotari]

People should stop discussing "what is the hardest FE game?" but instead ask the question "which FE game is hard for the right reasons?".

Good question. So in you're opinion, what is the best Hard Mode in the series, not necessarily the hardest one but the one that manged to be difficult for all the right reasons.

[Junkhead]

That's a good question. In those cases, I tend to point out FE9's MM and FE10's HM. They're moderately hard, without wanting to tear your hair off.

[Nobody]

good question. I'm fond of HHM, but to some people it's too easy, I guess. Still I'd say it's a good difficulty. I'm trying FE10's HM for the first time right now, and it's way less frustrating than I expected. Part 1 so far was really funny, so I'd say with the exception of some stupid shit they put in the game to increase difficulty for the sake of it, like the player not being able to see the enemy range, it's a great hard difficulty. I like FE6's HM, though the hit rates and reinforcements that attack the same turn they appear can be frustrating. Awakening's Lunatic and Lunatic + are really bad IMO, being either too hard or too easy (if you decide to break it). I never tried the other truly hard modes of the series, like Thracia, FE11's H5, FE12's H4 and PoR MM (the latter is something I really want to try), so I can't talk about them

Edited June 29, 2014 by Nobody

[PKL]

FE9 MM and FE10 HM buff defensive stats too much so it tends to be hard for the wrong reasons imo. Hector Hard Mode is just weak in general. The only chapter I liked was how different Cog of Destiny was, otherwise it was ez mode all over again. FE8 is lol. FE11 H5 has an extremely bad earlygame, with shaky javelin hits being the norm and otherwise is too easy and easy to break. FE13's lunatic isnt that hard due to various reasons that we all know but if you don't use that stuff it can be a decent difficulty. FE6 is usually hard because of the hitrates. I think FE12's Lunatic takes it, easily. Adding new enemies to the maps, new AI behavior in a few places, buffed aggresive stats and HP instead of buffing their def, removal of Warp and Silver Card are things it does well.

[Volug Vanguard]

I would say FE6, enemies have good stats and the game itself (Reinforcements/maps) style is suitable for hard mode. Is the game I enjoy the most in Hard Mode, others are easy regardless the "hard" tag like FE9/10/7/8 and others are stupid because they limit your gameplay by following one strategy, this goes for all lunatic modes, that basically go for " Use the less units possible and moving square by square like a penguin", so I really dont find any lunatic mode any entertaining at all.

FE6 gives you the broken op bonuses in some units, but they were already op even without them, not to mention others like Dieck are awesome even without bonuses. Enemies deal good amount of damage, they have good stats, maps are fun to play, you can die at any moment, epic RNG... Yeah, definetely FE6 Hard Mode is the Hard mode I enjoy the most. I would put FE5 "itself" as the same label than this one, but this technically isnt a hard mode xD.

FE9 maniac is fine and cool, but still too easy considering Ike and Lethe destroy everything in this game (And I dont use Oscar, Titania, Marcia or those things "everybody" uses xD) plus BEXP

[ZemZem]

FE6 HM felt just right, aside from a really rough earlygame (well, at least chapter 4).

My personal favorite is FE7's HHM, though.

[Quintessence]

I haven't played all of them, but among th ones I've played I'd say FE10 although removing enemy attack range and weapon triangle is kinda dumb but oh well.

FE6 HM is all about hit rates it's not even fun. It's like luck based.

FE7 EHM is lol. HHM is nice though.

Not even mention FE8

FE11 is not even funny :(

[Refa]

FE6HM was the most engaging outside of Chapter 4/Chapter 7 which can go fuck themselves for being the literal worst things ever.

[Volug Vanguard]

The only troubles I have in FE6 HM is Chapter 3. Why? Because I only use Roy-Dieck-Chad, the rest step aside and get 0 exp the entire game xDD, so using 3 swords in a map full of spear users its a pain in the ass. After that I dont have much troubles, thats is basically the "pain in the ass chapter" in my runs xD.

[dondon151]

I think FE12's Lunatic takes it, easily.

FE12 is too reliant on growths and DLC items :P

[-Cynthia-]

FE10 HM has about the right difficulty for me- FE12 Lunatic just gets tedious after a while. FE6 has a good difficulty but the RNG variance compared to FE10 is a bit of a turnoff.

I don't see how enemy durability is that high in FE10 HM. I'd like to try FE9 MM sometime, but can't get the emulator to work.

Edited June 29, 2014 by -Cynthia-

[Xator Nova]

let me see:

fe4 "hm": never played, but the only difference seems to be the ai behavior, so it might be easy.

fe6 hm: if hitrates weren't a bitch, this would be the perfect difficulty.

fe7 hhm (international version): walk in the park. never played japanese hhm.

fe8 hm: walk in the park

fe9 hm (international version): walk in the park. never played maniac.

fe10 hm: this feels balanced in the relation between player and enemies.

fe11 h5: earlygame is difficult due to bad hitrates, but it is otherwise a walk in the park.

fe12 h3: relies a lot on growths and statboosters so if you're rng-screwed, RIP run. the hardest in the series, imo.

fe13 lunatic: easy

so, I'd say FE10 HM.

[Xator Nova]

let me see:

fe4 "hm": never played, but the only difference seems to be the ai behavior, so it might be easy.

fe6 hm: if hitrates weren't a bitch, this would be the perfect difficulty.

fe7 hhm (international version): walk in the park. never played japanese hhm.

fe8 hm: walk in the park

fe9 hm (international version): walk in the park. never played maniac.

fe10 hm: this feels balanced in the relation between player and enemies.

fe11 h5: earlygame is difficult due to bad hitrates, but it is otherwise a walk in the park.

fe12 h3: relies a lot on growths and statboosters so if you're rng-screwed, RIP run. the hardest in the series, imo.

fe13 lunatic: easy

so, I'd say FE10 HM.

[Tables]

Of the one's I've played:

FE7 - it's been so long since I played FE7 HHM (I really need to go back to that at some point) but I remember it being pretty fun. I got stuck on battle before dawn though, since Zephiel always died before I could reach him. Maybe now with my improved tactics I might get there first.

FE8 - sadly a little too easy, but it does many things right. Enemies are tougher and there are more of them, but no chapters really just go crazy. Decent.

FE9 - I'll assume Maniac Mode, and that seems okay. FE9 has a problem with high defences in general though, and Maniac just increases the problem. It's not too bad, but it's kinda annoying. This one works very well from what I played before getting sick of my emulator crashing and lagging a lot.

FE10 - this one's awful. No weapon triangle, no enemy ranges, and the first of the lopsided difficulty FEs where the earlygame is a nightmare and then the rest of the game is easy, which is pretty bad design overall.

FE11 - Same issue as above, earlygame is horrible and it just gets easier. Fortunately the late game does remain challenging, but the midgame's fairly easy. Asides from that it's a fun challenge, and the first FE to make enemies significantly bulkier by boosting HP, not DEF, which is a great way to do it.

FE13 - If we're talking Lunatic, it's pretty well done except the same hardest early issue, chapters 2 and 3 require fairly precise strategies to get through consistently but beyond that, it's pretty fun, although it does just get easier as you go. Lunatic+ is kinda similar, but much worse, the earlygame is crazy dumb, especially chapters 2 and 3, which it's taken like a year for someone to come up with an even vaguely consistent strategy which has a pretty high stat bar to even attempt.

I can't really pick out a winner. I think the ideal hardest mode would have:

Enemy durability mostly through HP, not DEF/RES

A difficulty ramp up that means the late game is hardest if you train your party reasonably well

Challenges which can be dealt with through a variety of means, and which can be dealt with reasonably consistently with the right setup - i.e. not mostly luck dependent.

I don't know which FE comes closest to that.

[Jedi]

Fe6 and Fe12 have the best HM and Lunatic in the series if you are looking for fair and yet difficult challenge.

And people should really stop calling Thracia hard. It really isn't.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Jedisupersonic

[PKL]

FE12 is too reliant on growths and DLC items :P

With growths that high, multiple speed tiers to reclass to and a plethora of statboosters and forging, it's gonna be beatable way way more often than not if you are rng screwed. The run might be slower, but it wont be over.

The only thing to regret from FE12's hardest mode is the presence of a terrible lategame joiner cast imo. :(

Edited June 29, 2014 by PKL

[Jedi]

With growths that high, multiple speed tiers to reclass to and a plethora of statboosters and forging, it's gonna be beatable way way more often than not if you are rng screwed. The run might be slower, but it wont be over.

The only thing to regret from FE12's hardest mode is the presence of a terrible lategame joiner cast imo. :(

Even then you have the supplies to pull favorites. I've seen Ice use Wolf in Lunatic and I've used Sheema in the same mode

[PKL]

Even then you have the supplies to pull favorites. I've seen Ice use Wolf in Lunatic and I've used Sheema in the same mode

FE12 can only be Low turned though apparently, who cares if you can bring the lategame scrubs up to par, amirite? The problem is that they're all Est-like units. Theyre labeled unusable when in reality theyre just tough to use.

Of the one's I've played:

FE7 - it's been so long since I played FE7 HHM (I really need to go back to that at some point) but I remember it being pretty fun. I got stuck on battle before dawn though, since Zephiel always died before I could reach him. Maybe now with my improved tactics I might get there first.

FE8 - sadly a little too easy, but it does many things right. Enemies are tougher and there are more of them, but no chapters really just go crazy. Decent.

FE9 - I'll assume Maniac Mode, and that seems okay. FE9 has a problem with high defences in general though, and Maniac just increases the problem. It's not too bad, but it's kinda annoying. This one works very well from what I played before getting sick of my emulator crashing and lagging a lot.

FE10 - this one's awful. No weapon triangle, no enemy ranges, and the first of the lopsided difficulty FEs where the earlygame is a nightmare and then the rest of the game is easy, which is pretty bad design overall.

FE11 - Same issue as above, earlygame is horrible and it just gets easier. Fortunately the late game does remain challenging, but the midgame's fairly easy. Asides from that it's a fun challenge, and the first FE to make enemies significantly bulkier by boosting HP, not DEF, which is a great way to do it.

FE13 - If we're talking Lunatic, it's pretty well done except the same hardest early issue, chapters 2 and 3 require fairly precise strategies to get through consistently but beyond that, it's pretty fun, although it does just get easier as you go. Lunatic+ is kinda similar, but much worse, the earlygame is crazy dumb, especially chapters 2 and 3, which it's taken like a year for someone to come up with an even vaguely consistent strategy which has a pretty high stat bar to even attempt.

I can't really pick out a winner. I think the ideal hardest mode would have:

Enemy durability mostly through HP, not DEF/RES

A difficulty ramp up that means the late game is hardest if you train your party reasonably well

Challenges which can be dealt with through a variety of means, and which can be dealt with reasonably consistently with the right setup - i.e. not mostly luck dependent.

I don't know which FE comes closest to that.

By your description of your ideal difficulty, you might enjoy FE12's Lunatic.

Edited June 29, 2014 by PKL

[Jedi]

FE12 can only be Low turned though apparently, who cares if you can bring the lategame scrubs up to par, amirite?

.

:P I caaaare, and so do you just by this statement

[Refa]

FE12 can only be Low turned though apparently, who cares if you can bring the lategame scrubs up to par, amirite? The problem is that they're all Est-like units. Theyre labeled unusable when in reality theyre just tough to use.

No unit is literally unusable, it's obviously an exaggeration. ;/

Edited June 29, 2014 by Refa

[-Cynthia-]

It is kind of easier to do FE12 with a low turn count style because of how the game likes to send reinforcements at you.

[Narga_Rocks]

I like fe6 HM the most so far. The hit rates are only a problem depending on the units you use. Just use mostly killer weapons and abuse weapon triangle and high skill units? The only time I have trouble hitting is early on since Marcus can't be everywhere at once.

...

Oh right, bosses. Well, that's just go Rutger or whatever on them and keep healing and dancing and hope for the best. Usually you'll hit 4 or 5 out of 9 and kill it.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Narga_Rocks

[Irysa]

FE6 HM feels just right for the most part, but I would agree that hitrates need to be tweaked, and potentially bonuses adjusted a little on some characters. There are some frustrating chapters, but a bit of thinking and use of important resources within the base game itself will help you a lot. I was very surprised by overall how stable FE6 HM was even without any HM bonus characters, although I missed Rutger sorely early on.

I don't have to bang my head against a wall trying to figure out what to do/AI abuse/spend like 10 wasted attempts to figure out enemy pull tables to beat maps like I have so far in FE12 lunatic. Thats not to say I haven't enjoyed FE12 so far, quite the opposite, but in terms of "hard mode", 6 is more like a logical progression of what you do in FE. That being said, perhaps H1/2 are more fair in that respect for FE12, so I might have to replay them at some point.

As for other HM's, SD H5 is still better than most other hard modes, even if its rngy at the start. It has pumped up enemies and all but it still feels like very much contemporary Fire Emblem taken to an extreme, and is heavy on smart player phase targetting versus enemy phase positioning and afking. FE7 8 and 9 HM are all pretty easy. I haven't played Maniac on 9 though. I refuse to play 10's HM because removing range indicators is quite literally the definition of artificial difficulty. I don't care what else they did to the statistical variation on enemies, removing a basic feature like that and expecting you to manually count all the tiles every turn is mindless busywork.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Irysa

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Only played these games:

FE8 HM: Not hard.

FE9 HM: Not hard as well, but more fun. Couldn't have played maniac though.

FE10 HM: Very interesting and probably my favourite HM, if the weapon triangle would not be removed. I liked the idea to disable the movement range of the enemies, but the missing weapon triangle ruins a strategical aspect.

FE11: Very challenging but not unfair. Only have beaten H3 so far. I tend to try out H4 and 5 very soon. The very first chapters are the hardest.

FE12: Probably the hardest game in the series on hardest difficulty. Even finishing H3 was a pain in the ass for me.

FE13: Only have beaten lunatic. Lunatic + in early chapters is luckbased. I stopped to play it. I hate this difficulty in general because of 100% activation rate of enemy skills. Stupid idea.

Edited June 30, 2014 by TalesOf Hysteria

[AMCC4728]

Fe6 and Fe12 have the best HM and Lunatic in the series if you are looking for fair and yet difficult challenge.

And people should really stop calling Thracia hard. It really isn't.

This.

Also I don't think that many people claim Thracia is hard anymore. The initial problem was that a lot of the mechanics are REALLY noob-unfriendly. For example: Escape mechanics, warp tiles, Sleep staff Sirram chapter, FoW, etc.