Refa Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Honestly I think Proto has been scummier than Shin overall but I guess you could say his vote tipped the scales! See, Shin jumped onto the wagon supremely late but Proto voted a lot earlier. Also I persuaded Proto to vote Shin. Also Prims is like obvious town or the meanest scum ever (seriously, I don't see why he'd bus Vhaltz like that as scum). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Also we should end this game today so I can change my avatar. :3 Why am I saying "also" so much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Lynch Refa please My confidence in scum!Refa stems from my own actions, so maybe this would be a good time for both me and Shin to claim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 lol i'm obvious town Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 lol i'm obvious townHow so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Meh, I don't feel like I should explain why I'm townie because a lot of it is self meta and bias (also I think my Weapons interactions were townie as fuck but that's just me). Just wait for Prims/Blitz to explain it, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 OK, too lazy to actually read Proto/Shin at the moment, but I did look at Vhaltz's ISO! Well, part of it anyways (I'm not a miracle worker here). Therein I found that he really wanted me/Prims lynched, had a minor scumread on Proto, and expressed no suspicion whatsoever on Shin (which makes sense, because at that juncture it wouldn't benefit him to bus his scumbuddy which is also why Prims is town but that's not related). So more reason that I'm right. :3 Sucks for Shin, though. Rolling scum two games in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Yeah, well, you know how much I dislike relying on subjective fluff. Actually, Shin shouldn't claim because I'm pretty sure he's Town. I'll claim instead. Town Jailkeeper, can roleblock + protect a target every night. The first night, I didn't send my action in due to inactivity. The second night, I went for Blitzy and succeeded, but it didn't seem to have had any notable effects. Third night, I went for BBM, succeeded, and there were no deaths. Last night, I went for Shin, succeeded, and BBM died. This indicates that Shin did NOT shoot BBM. Of the remaining players, Prims seems obvTown because that Vhaltz bus definitely wasn't necessary and wouldn't have been very advantageous for scum. Blitzy seems to be Town because Mason Infiltrators are dumb and also because the attempt to shoot BBM twice in a row indicates that the Mafia really don't like leaving cleared Masons alive, implying that Blitzy is cleared and not scum. Poly seems like Town based on his interactions with Vhaltz and Vhaltz's defense really seemed as if he wanted to gain towncred by defending a legit Town Miller Detector. Finally, Shin did not shoot BBM because I made sure he didn't go anywhere last night. This only leaves Refa. I see nothing about Refa that indicates that he is Town. A Persuader that acts at night instead of the day is also incredibly scummy, because Town generally doesn't know who they'll be lynching on the next day so negating another player's vote by placing it on somebody else sounds like something only scum would really benefit from. Furthermore, throughout the game, neither the player with the locked vote nor the player in which the vote was locked to was a corpse or a flipped scum, which isn't inherently scummy, but it doesn't violate the assumption that scum would keep ensuring that a living Townie was persuaded to vote another living Townie every night. If anybody thinks Refa might be Town, I would like to know who they think is responsible for shooting BBM last night. I can verify that it wasn't Shin, but I am really interested in seeing Blitzy/Poly/Prims/Proto cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Also, Vhaltz's and Kay-nee's abilities also imply that Shin isn't scum that somehow redirected my action to another player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDRHAWK Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 what wait there should be only have been the one scum left how OH WAIT THERE'S A THING MISSING AND gneh gonna have to reread Roofa and maybe Shin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Also, Vhaltz's and Kay-nee's abilities also imply that Shin isn't scum that somehow redirected my action to another player.You could've just been roleblocked, assuming SB doesn't tell people when their action fails (since he doesn't for redirects). Stereotypical scumteam in these kinds of games is rolecop+roleblock+godfather. @Mod: Would a player be informed if their action failed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Shin is clear then, unless there's randomly a strong-willed scum. I really don't think Refa is scum though based on general behavior across the game. Will have to re-read him and Poly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 what wait there should be only have been the one scum left how OH WAIT THERE'S A THING MISSING AND gneh gonna have to reread Roofa and maybe Shin BBM was Town. The missing thing was likely the paragraph about the other two Masons and the quicktopic link. Xinnidy's PM shows more of that paragraph. You could've just been roleblocked, assuming SB doesn't tell people when their action fails (since he doesn't for redirects). Stereotypical scumteam in these kinds of games is rolecop+roleblock+godfather. @Mod: Would a player be informed if their action failed? Town Jailkeeper, can roleblock + protect a target every night. The first night, I didn't send my action in due to inactivity. The second night, I went for Blitzy and succeeded, but it didn't seem to have had any notable effects. Third night, I went for BBM, succeeded, and there were no deaths. Last night, I went for Shin, succeeded, and BBM died. This indicates that Shin did NOT shoot BBM.I typed the bolded words in my post for a reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDRHAWK Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 no I'm missing quotations in the first bit of his PM which made me think that maybe he was scum fsr also I just realized that Prims may also be scum will do more in-depth poast when I can get on my laptop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Day 1 lol remember when kirsche was alive in this game - #33 and #48 require that Refa/Weapons decided to kickstart distancing early Day 1. Refa's desire to get people to sheep him instead of voting Proto indicates that isn't the case since it could easily spiral out of control. - #69: Vhaltz's vote here further reflects well on Refa, because lol pushing your buddy to 3 votes this early on. To be fair, Vhaltz and Weapons later jump off, but all three scum would've been voting eachother at this point and this could've easily blown up on their faces. Although it's worth noting that Weapons' reasons for unvoting Refa ("town blowup") are similar to the reasons for initially keeping the vote down ("scum overreaction"). - Weapons #121 justifies not voting Poly by saying Poly has "done more" but makes no attempt to read into what Poly has done which is iffy justification, especially when he thinks Kay would be a valid lurker vote target (Kay had actual content). Later, Poly looks bad but Weapons can't vote him because of consolidation. Pretty interesting given Weapons could've pushed Poly earlier and looked better than he did pushing Shinori but opted not to. - Poly's Weapons defense which is only justified relative to Poly hasn't ceased being a scummy thing. Also noteworthy is that he never addressed Weapons not liking him. Day 2 wtf is xinny's new avatar - This Refa post confuses me because I remember reading it and thinking he was crumbing an investigation on me but no he's just persuader apparently. Refa, explain? - Shin #353: BBM called Shin town for having solid stances upon entering the game compared to Doomsday but Doomsday had a smaller lynch pool and if you look outside of Shin's suspects his Poly read is incredibly waffly. Shin, what was your read on Poly at that point? In fact, what's your read on him now? Day 3 bbm upset that manix could post real content and case him, the fear is real - I feel like Vhaltz's defense of Poly is hollow because it's based entirely around Vhaltz's belief that a proven miller constitutes a clear when it doesn't as shown by people's willingness to still lynch Shin. (I also still find it hella weird that Poly's role PM says he'll always get innos but he can still scan the miller as scum, miller is usually still affected by sanity and is read town by insane cops) - #504: I hate, HATE the line "it's impossible for scum to have rolecopped me so there's no way you can fabricate results" with Vhaltz's flip because it sets it up like Poly is clear if he provides a result... only Poly could easily fabricate one by way of, you know, being Vhaltz's buddy. This is extremely sleazy. Day 4 Oh boy, here's the big one. - RE: Vhaltz and Poly at the start of the day: Still pretty awkward for scum/scum interactions but I GUESS it is possible for Vhaltz to not give Poly the full-on "yep these reactions are good and 100% town" so it doesn't look like white-knighting following Vhaltz's flip. Questions for Poly: what DID you think happened with Vhaltz's role? What was Vhaltz supposed to be crumbing? If you figured your role PM lied to you, why didn't you conclude you were just sane and Vhaltz was scum, given the existence of a Godfather? - @Refa: why did you go into :effort:mode D4? One of the strongest points in your favor this game is that you're super motivated given your meta of hating being scum constantly, but D3-D4 you were slipping into coasting. - @Refa, again: why did you switch off of Vhaltz because my turnaround seemed too fast to you? When I pointed out that had nothing to do with Vhaltz's alignment you went "yeah ok" but never explained WHY you thought that reflected well on Vhaltz since it was only a point in his favor if you thought I was scum mislynching him and you apparently didn't. This is my biggest problem with your slot; it's as if you had some hope your buddy could halt the wagon on him. - Two things that bug me about Vhaltz's late D4. 1) Vhaltz alludes to re-reading Refa after Refa's D4 posts but never actually does so, instead opting to push me, which makes me paranoid it was distancing in response to a bus. 2) Shin was the easiest counterwagon for Vhaltz to push but he makes no effort to do so, implying that either Shin is scum and Vhaltz didn't want to cause interactions, or Vhaltz was expecting to be bussed. I believe Blitz already pointed this out. - @Refa the third: How does one go from this... to this? (and also your D4 opener I guess) ##Vote: Polydeuces Have an easier time buying this than scum!Refa. Both have some super town interactions, but while words like Poly/Vhaltz ED4 can lie, votes never do, and Vhaltz's interactions with Refa are all votes making them a lot more telling (and yes Proto votes are objective data). There's also more incentive for Vhaltz to attempt to deny town a lynch on his buddy than to bus Refa D1 for no real reason. Besides that, Poly is just scummier on play for reasons I've been pushing for like half the game. I don't have any particularly major issues with Refa, he's been motivated and his interactions with the scumteam look good too. I still want answers from him regarding the nitpicks I did have, though. The third possibility is strong-willed!Shin and while I do see some posts that make me find Shin suspect, a strong-willed scum would be weird if Vhaltz could just hide while shooting people for the same effect. @Mod: can scum act and kill in the same night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDRHAWK Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I actually thought he was crumbing some weird Priest variant (clearly EM has corrupted me) also I'm torn between scum!Prims and scum!Refa, kinda leaning the roof due to my feeling on scum!Prims being mostly meta/gut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 One more question for Refa, and I want an answer today. Does your persuade work in MYLO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Yes, I know that votes are objective data. After reading through Prims' giant post, I'm starting to rethink my Townish impressions of Poly. I would not object to a Poly lynch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDRHAWK Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 SIGH at this juncture I do not even care I'm gonna just ##Vote: Refa for now and pray that you guys don't fuck this up by lynching me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 might be alive you wouldn't know scum even if they outright claimed to your face might be alive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I guess I'm wrong then. ##Unvote ##Vote: Manix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 well I guess Manix can go after we lynch his buddy ##Unvote ##Vote: Polydeuces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Yeah, well, you know how much I dislike relying on subjective fluff. Actually, Shin shouldn't claim because I'm pretty sure he's Town. I'll claim instead. Town Jailkeeper, can roleblock + protect a target every night. The first night, I didn't send my action in due to inactivity. The second night, I went for Blitzy and succeeded, but it didn't seem to have had any notable effects. Third night, I went for BBM, succeeded, and there were no deaths. Last night, I went for Shin, succeeded, and BBM died. This indicates that Shin did NOT shoot BBM. What is happening. Well, I'm pretty sure this clears Proto if nothing else (which is good). I don't think he'd fakeclaim this role as scum, it doesn't make sense with hider, and he definitely would not be able to mislynch enough people before they became suspicious of him. I honestly am totally confused about Shin, though. Like I'm fairly certain that Prims and Poly are town from play (as far as Poly is concerned, why would Vhaltz hard defend him) and mason infiltrators are dumb. Ugh this is a pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 If Poly is scum, Vhaltz hard defends him so that the resistance to a Poly lynch outnumbers the people willing to push Poly. Poly also only answered one of my 3 questions - Vhaltz being a Priest wouldn't explain the guilty result. Mason infiltrator isn't happening due to balance reasons. Plus scum!Blitz would've gone for a shot on the doc since the masons trusted each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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