Conspiracy Mafia - End of Days

[CT075]

it's not "wow a lot of people think he's scum" it's "i think he's town that's Doing Slightly Scummy Things and people+scum are pushing it overmuch"

[CT075]

and i will tell you why i think he's town sooner or later

[Zkirsche]

Preferably sooner as he's currently favourite to get lynched.

[BBM]

Blitz (3): Kay, Vhaltz+Mitsuki, Euklyd

Refa (2): Xinnidy, Proto

Cam (2): BBM, Refa

Euklyd (1): kirsche, Prims

Proto (1): Blitz

FFM (1): Polydeuces

Shinori+Eurykins (1): Weapons

Voteless Illuminati (3): Shinori+Eurykins, FFM, Cam

We have 16ish hours left in the phase... or do we?

I know that Eukyld should read 2 votes but SB had the same mistake in his votals (I don't think anybody pointed it out last time) so I've elected to keep it in case that's actually intentional.

[Prims]

I'm not interesting in lynching Refa and feel the same way BBM does about Blitz being too motivated to be scum. Hate to be meta but Blitz is just really transparent because he struggles to fake effort when he's mafia.

Not fond of Cam's entrance into the game which was fluffy and feels pointless in that there's no real reason for him to post non-content immediately instead of reading the thread first.

[BBM]

it's not "wow a lot of people think he's scum" it's "i think he's town that's Doing Slightly Scummy Things and people+scum are pushing it overmuch"

but like... who's scum and who's just people? possible bias but this feels like white knighting for the sake of white knighting because the only person on the Blitz wagon you've said anything about is Vhaltz and that was for reasons not related to Blitz

[CT075]

i have no idea??? i'm defending blitz because i think he's town which, if you want ti write it off as "pointless white knighting" i guess i can't stop you O_o

[Xinnidy]

Literally five hours trying to read this thread. Thanks internet.

Now that I'm looking back at it Blitz's case on proto is HARDCORE METASPEC and he makes me think proto 2.0, seems very reliant on roles and past game meta, his continuous attempts to rolespec and metaspec make me think it's very much a thing he does even if it isn't really helpful with no flips though. He has more activity than proto and actually tries to look for scum, if questionably succesful.

I can take Refa actually not having Proto as a townread but I still don't think it is justified that he finds weapons scummier over Proto... Like,

Still think Weapons is scummy because his explanations did not convince me (see: my replies to him) and well just read my other posts dammit. Proto is scummy for similar reasons but I think he's less scummy because the way he's been hanging onto cases still doesn't strike me as something he'd do as scum (I mean other people have mentioned that this is a thing he does as either alignments but idk).

I might just be dumb but what were your replies to weapons even? I don't recall much content that you could even take from weapons.

Taking a look back at eclipse I see how she's getting suspicion for staying on the sidelines, vote is still on blitz for rolespeccing while dismissing a fighting as town infighting (which is... null, until she called out refa, does it still seem like town infighting?), hesitance to call out refa as scummy over her case was fair considering the extent of her case but asking opinions from other people regarding whether refa would do that as scummy seem... off, considering who was asked (weapons) would have next to no knowledge of refa's meta. It seems misleading, so I agree the intent can be to egg town onto mislynches from the sidelines.

...shame she already subbed prior to this post.

Pedit: At least cam already one-upped me and posted!

Calling out refa on having a weak defence seems like a context misinterpretation, I don't see how what you called out had to do with refa asking weapons for his opinion on kirsche.

The rest of your post is kinda non-content, though? Actually the vhaltz gutread is a thing I guess.

I though that Prims was onto Proto's vote for sheeping weapons but now that I reread it I am Factually Wrong apparently, and Refa also thought that Proto's first vote was serious. I don't see how Poe's Law made proto sound so serious but I actually don't see it that Prims would have voteparked somebody for a jokevote and feign ignorance so I believe he was chasing a red herring.

I'm not scumreading Weapons for starting a vote on my wagon, I'm scumreading him because his vote was lazy and he made no effort to strengthen it at all (and that his case also applied to someone else who he ignored entirely); also I don't view OMGUS as inherently scummy so I fail to see how this is self conscious at all lol.

...I'm going to assume you have a more lax concept of OMGUS. Ftr I don't consider finding a case on you to be bad and scummy as omgus. I'm taking it as you're pushing a case harder on him because he pushed suspicion onto you first.

Should've accepted a long time ago that no one ever knows wtf I'm talking about and so it gets misinterpreted it to hell. But, alas.

This just sounds really bad to me like could you at least expand instead of "everybody's misinterpreting me so I'm not going to bother explaining them shit" which is kind of

stagnating, and sorta wiping your tracks.

and bad imo.

I take issue with a lot of your post being non-content like "Oh I can't remember prims he must be active lurking" or "reading vhaltz is /effort can somebody do it for me."

Also if telling FFM to post more is easy content isn't telling shinori to post more also easy content too?

How is this scummy?

It isn't per se. I brought it up because I later mentioned that I found him conceding the OMGUS point as scummy alongside his activity because I started to see him as quite self-conscious, even considering he was getting a lot of scumreads.

... I reckon I could've just put it all in the same sentence back then but whatever.

This sounds like something scum!Elieson would say except you're not Elie so I am confused. Elaborate on the first sentence please because I can't tell what you're concluding (or rather, why you can't conclude anything).

Well being judged by another person's scum meta is certainly a new experience.

My read is that Euklyd was kinda just there early and I found it hard to see anything relevant from him aside from backing up Refa's points (though maybe I'm just too focused on scumfa...) wherein he wasn't pushing his other opinions which were... a blitz scumread over rolespec. Eclipse level content.

I overlooked he kinda called weaproto out for having a poor refavote wherein his vhaltz rvs vote and blitzread weren't any better.

He sure had a lot of words and imo his content isn't improving, so I do think he looks worse now. He's sticking to Blitz under vhalt's case with the least effort possible and also... is it just me or the fact he's ok with lynching eclipse seems out of nowhere since he mentioned eclipse exactly zero times prior?

... you know what.

##Unvote

##Vote: Euklyd

I am confident there's some hesitance in his posts and if that's his scum meta then I might just be hitting the jackpot.

Really though his current reads aren't sitting well with me.

I'm not going to do this scumminess scale bullshit but I don't like euklyd, refa, and weapons the most in no specific order.

[BBM]

i have no idea??? i'm defending blitz because i think he's town which, if you want ti write it off as "pointless white knighting" i guess i can't stop you O_o

it's ok if you find Blitz town but if you're going to specifically say that there are scum pushing him for a mislynch and then not talk about who they are

will consider Euklyd more tomorrow; SLEEP for now

[euklyd]

I'm really not liking Cam's non-content. Cam do you have scumreads?

Refa's reasons for dismissing the Euklyd case are bad. In FFTA Euk wrote a huge wall of text where he was confused about everything, but evidently trying.

and how well did that work out for me

I'm pretty sure I was called scummy for what I wrote

I was even lynched

in this case I was trying not to be a Center Of Attention that's so easily mislynched when I had Nothing To Say and it still didn't work

##passiveaggressive

idk I'm having an even harder time caring about this game than FFTA. it being D1 isn't helping. at least I have townreads, I guess.

is it just me or the fact he's ok with lynching eclipse seems out of nowhere since he mentioned eclipse exactly zero times prior?

Other people made points that I agreed with, I had thought I'd mentioned that but I guess not.

I am confident there's some hesitance in his posts and if that's his scum meta then I might just be hitting the jackpot.

self-meta is terrible and whatnot, but: lol

really what is this here for

"he sounds hesitant I hope that's his scum meta" like you're just throwing that in there

why

(it's also Wrong)

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Alright, my vote did what I wanted it to, so now everyone has at least kind of been involved. Really I should've done it earlier, as it's not cool when scum can get a free pass on day 3. Also, people got to have more faith in me, I know what I'm doing and I know there was time to switch.

On review of the uninvolved, Poly reaaaaaallllllyyyy sticks out as a sore thumb. No content, and a passing effort to seem active. Just read his iso. Would vote if there was a wagon but I'm not going to be around for close to phase end. I bet BBM doesn't read this sentence.

I'm still on board scum eclipse/Cam. In addition to the eclipse stuff, when people sub in, they most of the time start out with some recap wall-ish post, just by obligation. In this case, most of the size (the actual quotes) of Cam's initial post comes from jokes/commenting on jokes, inflating perceived content, which falls under scum entry posts.

I tried digging into Blitz's posts, and IMO he sounds fine. Can anyone lay out the scum intent behind his posts?

##Unvote, Vote: Cam

[CT075]

i'm sorry i don't live up to your expectations for subs

[Refa]

Fuck guys do NOT lynch eclipse I just remembered something

##Unvote

Just look at where she was claiming a scummy role before that is not scum duck you auto correct didn't read just have internet for a few minutes lets lynch someone else

[Refa]

Oh fsr I thought it was near deadline gg me. Anyways rereading and dropping a vote afterwards.

[Refa]

Surface level reads here plane is takin off

Xin might be town would not lynch .cam blitz Kay might be scum feel bet about this

##Vote: Proto

Prims brings up a good point about my iidkEulyd read still don't feel good about lynching today Idk later guys hopefully I Mae it back before phage end.

[Prims]

Just look at where she was claiming a scummy role before that is not scum

Why not?

[Kay]

Kay, what is your read on Weapons/Refa? You say badstuff about them but I'm not actually sure whether you think they're scum or not

Weapons is a secondary scumread, Refa just looks like tryhard bad town so far.

[Blitz]

okay, I am wasting too much time trying to do some Isoing, not going too well though (cause of all the distractions of football replays going on around me)

few things I thought I should say before I get back to Isoing

Manix's Iso should go to the dead player's list

@Kay, I actually wanted to tell a Prims to poke more people, cause his pokes are just somehow not like the pokes he normally used to do (could be cause I wasn't around for a while, could be that I am wrong or could be that he is scum).

I do admit I should have prodded some inactives as well, but, well, I didn't

The inactives mainly involves Shinori & FFM (literally has done nothing)

Poly and Proto have been active lurking and therefore these 4 should most definitely get in here and post some actual opinions

Cam should make a case too IMO

It seems people here thinks I am taking my Proto case too far, I am not dropping the case, but I will go after some of these guys who hasn't been doing anything. My overall thoughts haven't changed much, but I think Refa is townier now. Other than that, I don't think a soft claim like that from Eclipse will have any effect on what I think of her (I guess you could say agreed with other people instead in here)

Other than that, how much time left?

##Unvote:

##Vote: Poly (I just picked one at random from the 5 mentioned names)

I will try to do some Iso and make a better post soon, but I have to leave the library now

[Prims]

uhh we're nearing deadline so dropping your vote on a lurker with no content isn't really going to pressure them unless other people are willing to wagon them.

pls read euk/weapons when you're here again

[euklyd]

Blitz are you trying to throw your vote away by vot-

goddammit I keep on trying to say things and then Prims says them first

confirmed as ninja, must be scum, etc.

Happy with my vote here, at least.

[Prims]

actually fuck this

Polydeuces and FFM: if neither of you have substantial content by deadline tomorrow I will shoot the one who looks worse. I know Poly is around on skype and frankly it's frustrating to have to deal with a LURKER POOL every game.

[Prims]

Actually, put Shineury on that list too. They were lurking so hardcore I forgot they were even in the game.

[CT075]

wait holy shit FFM is in this game what

##vote Proto is the best I have atm (i'm going to see if i can't get more secure footing on my reads down before phase end but i'm busy and also Not Good At Reading)

[Kriemhild]

Sorry for disappearing for a while guys, I was hanging out with my friends last night and then when I was at work tomorrow, Mafia was not in my "What to do as I slack off at work" list (i.e. I forgot about Mafia while I was working). I don't actually have time to read the thread now, but I'll be back in a few hours and will probably read through and comment on whatever. Sorry.

[Vhaltz]

I couldn't do my lab work today because my primers weren't in yet so I'll have to go in again some other day gg.

This isn't what eclipse was really doing though, she essentially asked Weapons "hey don't you think Refa is scummy?" while not voting him herself.

I know I said your point was good earlier but now that you've rephrased it like this I'm looking at eclipse's post and I don't think this is actually true thougH?

Gee thanks

The Graspy Cases continue, but I like what Weapons posted slightly better. Speaking of. . .Weapons, do you think that scum would draw attention to themselves by making a mountain out of a molehill on ED1? It's weird, and I'm too tired to figure out what's driving Refa to do this.

I'm reading this more as eclipse being unsure about Refa and doubting one of the arguments in Weapons' Refa case. More like "this doesn't make sense, are you sure Refa is scum?" than "hey don't you think Refa is scummy?". It doesn't really make any sense either to think that eclipse had scum intent in trying to call Weapons' attention onto Refa when Weapons was already voting him at the time.

Don't see how Cam's recent posts are scummy. If anything his "asking for ISOs is a scumtell" is bad logic but I don't really see scum intent in his posts. Unless he's buds with Blitz and had the guts to charge head on into the game by hard defending him his actions don't make sense as scum. I know scum can white-knight town wagons and etc but Cam in particular already defends big wagons as town enough and gets suspected a lot for being antagonistic that I figure he would be more cautious about it as scum. Leaning town.

Eh, that said I've never actually seen Cam being scum so Prims or somebody else who used to play with him back in the day should give me their opinions.

I know I said I'd make another post and then I didn't because I realized I didn't actually have very much to say. I agree with what Vhaltz said about the lurkers (Proto lying low; Eurynori hydra should be more active etc.) but I still find that his last post is like a lot of words for not a lot of content? It's not really necessary to talk about how scummy the lurkers are in relation to each other when they're not being lynched today; feels like easy content. Don't get the bit about eclipse; saying everything is town in-fighting can just as easily be scum dismissing stuff as town jumping to conclusions. And she's not scummy for voting Blitz over Refa; she's scummy because her Blitz vote was very similar to the reasons for which she found Refa suspicious.

I think BBM is twisting something logical into something scummy here. There were 30+ hours left in D1 at the time I posted so there was no reason to work under the assumption that lukers weren't getting lynched, specially considering that the wagons were nowhere near being consolidated. His reason to argue my eclipse read is also literally just the same argument I used for eclipse!town not feeling the need to switch votes (because of case strength being similar) only reversed into a reason why she is scum with barely any explanation.

I had a bad feeling about his earlier interactions with Prims and disregarded it because D1 scumteamspec is dumb, but I found it odd how he voted Prims and immediately found somebody else to go after once he posted, he dropped stating priorities after his #78 and I can't tell what he thinks of Prims anymore. His eclipse read in particular feels very weak considering that he's voting her above other suspicions he's been voicing since, which feels like scum leaving their options open with deadline approaching.

Also wrt spending time with Mitsuki it might seem obvious that playing mafia together should count as spending time together, but actually making posts (me) and reading/reviewing/adding stuff (me/Mitsuki) take very different amounts of time so Mitsuki is generally reading, doing other stuff or getting really bored while I'm making up my mind and typing up the preliminary posts. Hydraing IRL is not an easy task.

wrt Blitz meta I know he posted odd logic as town in MLP but I don't think he'd make a case as convoluted as the one on Proto as town? My issues with him are less about the rolespec/general scumminess that everyone is handwaving and more about his cases sounding really forced, his latest post also reads like he has zero suspects and went for an easy vote so I'm not seeing how he is particularly efforting as opposed to just making large fluffy posts.

atm I'd go Blitz ~= BBM >> FFM > others > Euk >> Cam > Refa

Keeping Proto out until he posts actual content but he'd be alongside FFM. I initially assumed FFM lurking hard through D1 would be non-alignment indicative since he'd probably be doing it on purpose to avoid getting lynched early like in all other games, but his "I'll read and play later" feels more like an excuse to get away with not playing the game seeing as he checked out Furet's game and signed up for it.