Randoman Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Yeah, the cast in general suffers from KO problems. The only characters I've seen who can consistently get kills at a decent percent (about 70%) are: Bowser, Ike, Donkey Kong, Ganondorf, Shulk (Especially Smash Monado), Dedede, Tippered Marth, and Little Mac. 70% is a rather high threshold to have in terms of a reasonable KO percentage. I mean, not even Melee had 70% KOs be the norm or average percent KO, and Melee was the hardest Smash game to survive in in terms of recovery and surving at high percents. 100%-130% would be a more reasonable average KO percent, at least for the first 3 Smash games. I'll admit, the overall average KOing percent of the cast has risen considerably in SSB4. Honestly I think Lucina's KO power is still very good compared to most of the cast. She'll reach KO %s pretty fast through her speedy tilts with good range. Not as crazy as the heavies, but not nearly as long as say, Fox or Mario or something. Erm... I personally had an easier time getting KOs in the 70%-120% range with Mario than Lucina. I mean, Mario has some really awesome edgeguarding options with his forward air and cape and I've been able to gain KOs on opponents as low as 70%-80% using them. Sure, Lucina (and Marth as well) have the tippered down air, but I've been able to meteor smash with Mario's forward air easier than with those two's down airs. Well, edgeguarding moves may not necessary count as KO moves, but I personally find I have an easier time earning KOs and getting them at lower percents with Mario than Lucina. One or two capes with Mario does the trick, while with Lucina I'm constantly using aerial attacks, they keep coming back, and my edgeguarding gets interrupted by another opponent since I'm taking too long in doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I agree with Rando. It's become harder for everyone to KO. Either the whole cast got heavier or, as people are saying, the KO zones were moved farther out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Based Shaya of Smash Boards found a thing. Quoting him. "I haven't tested otherwise, but it does make sense based off of observation. But Lucina's full hop retreating forward air isn't safe on shield, while Marth's is. Tipper or otherwise. The reason for this is that Marth's attacks all have hitlag modifiers. Untippered hits have less hitlag, making them technically safer on shield than they would be naturally. Tippered hits produce more hitlag, making them less safe but usually evening out to around the same "frame advantage" due to the extra damage tipper attacks have. Lucina does not seem to gain those hitlag modifications from what I've seen thus far (would explain shield drop dash attack being a consistent punish on my Lucina while miraculously not being the case for Marth :<), making her considerably less absolutely frame safe on shield than Marth in every instance." That's kind of a big deal, as FH fair is their safest approach this time around. Also, Lucina's lack of a tipper is not a free pass to play rush down for days. She shares Marth's frame data, meaning you can still get fucked for being careless. Likewise, Marth is not "tipper or gtfo". And I really gotta put my Smash roster in my Sig. Blah, my Sig is already too big tho :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Based Shaya of Smash Boards found a thing. Quoting him. "I haven't tested otherwise, but it does make sense based off of observation. But Lucina's full hop retreating forward air isn't safe on shield, while Marth's is. Tipper or otherwise. The reason for this is that Marth's attacks all have hitlag modifiers. Untippered hits have less hitlag, making them technically safer on shield than they would be naturally. Tippered hits produce more hitlag, making them less safe but usually evening out to around the same "frame advantage" due to the extra damage tipper attacks have. Lucina does not seem to gain those hitlag modifications from what I've seen thus far (would explain shield drop dash attack being a consistent punish on my Lucina while miraculously not being the case for Marth :<), making her considerably less absolutely frame safe on shield than Marth in every instance." That's kind of a big deal, as FH fair is their safest approach this time around. Also, Lucina's lack of a tipper is not a free pass to play rush down for days. She shares Marth's frame data, meaning you can still get fucked for being careless. Likewise, Marth is not "tipper or gtfo". And I really gotta put my Smash roster in my Sig. Blah, my Sig is already too big tho :( ah shit, i gotta tell this to some of my friends and family. any footage of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) No footage yet, but I'll take his word for it since it seems easy enough to test. Late edit: check out my post in the other thread for more details. http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40818&p=3407457 Edited October 19, 2014 by Ownagepuffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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