TOUHOU ~ Official Touhou Chat Thread~

[Lance Masayoshi]

how are opinions wrong

[Balcerzak]

[spoiler=yeah, I started working on that, but I still like my raw point numbers. It also helps firm up which stagse are most abundant in a nice quantitative way, I still gave up on it though.]

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

Oh yeah speaking of MoF in one of my recent runs I think I saw me getting a point item at full value (slightly) under the poc???

Am i crazy or is the max value line actually a bit under the poc?

[ZemZem]

I AM SUCCESSFUL: http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=34988

1cced MoF Normal. And I captured Illusionary Dominance!

Mountain of Faith (Kanako's spell) really is easier on Normal lol

[Balcerzak]

Oh yeah speaking of MoF in one of my recent runs I think I saw me getting a point item at full value (slightly) under the poc???

Am i crazy or is the max value line actually a bit under the poc?

That's partly accurate, afaik, in part to compensate for the retarded faith system punishment. Alternately, you collected a yellow-bordered point item dropped by defeating a boss spellcard at full power.

[ZemZem]

BAL WATCH MY REPLAY

[Kriemhild]

So I tried some more Raiko. Lost my last life at 13 seconds remaining on Blue Lady Show. This is seriously the most evil Extra spell that I've ever seen. And it's a 75-second survival spell >_<

I think I need to actually learn how to deal with Blue Lady Show. RAYKITTY, any tips on how to tackle it, besides Sakuya's knife trick?

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

That's partly accurate, afaik, in part to compensate for the retarded faith system punishment. Alternately, you collected a yellow-bordered point item dropped by defeating a boss spellcard at full power.

faith system is beautiful watchu talking about <3

and nah, p sure it wasn't even during a boss/after a midboss

in other news i managed to get to yuugi's final spellcard

maybe if i didn't die twice on stage 1 on this run i could have beaten it >_>

and i actually got out of bombs during her fight, MarisaA <3

[ZemZem]

Proto: http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=34988

1cced MoF Normal with ReimuB, just like I promised. Care to watch?

[Kriemhild]

...why would you die twice in Stage 1? Even on SA, that's ridiculous >_>

EDIT: Sure, ZM, and congratulations!

Edited October 19, 2014 by Railgun

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

...why would you die twice in Stage 1? Even on SA, that's ridiculous >_>

EDIT: Sure, ZM, and congratulations!

1. Forgetting the small fairies actually shoot bullets

2. Thinking I'm using Reimu when grazing the big fairies bullets

3. Trying to actually deal damage with MarisaA

and the occasional "how did i die to this ._," death :D

Edited October 19, 2014 by Thordo

[Balcerzak]

BAL WATCH MY REPLAY

You lost about 10k easy faith on stage 1.

You have a little trouble dealing with the pre-midboss on stage 2 (optimally, as soon as the spinners stop firing concentric circles and instead switch to the aimed shots, you want to start circling around them and above the POC).

Needing the bomb on Optical Camouflage must have been disappointing, but it kept you alive. You actually did a pretty good job not losing faith to the places I found to be sticking points in stage 3, though (multiple places in the opener for example), so good job there. You prolonged Ooze Flooding by streaming away from Nitori instead of toward her, and you ended up dying as well. It's probably her easiest card on this difficulty, imo, was that a fluke or does it usually trouble you? I'm assuming fluke due to the masterful capture of her other cards.

You shouldn't have to bomb to the stage 4 curtain spreads, just very slight streaming back and forth, getting just on the other side of the large bullets each time, should do the trick. Your over-reliance on bombs in this stage leaves you criminally low on power going into Aya (nice deathbomb at the big fairy trio, though). Crossroads has that sort of deceptively simple/tricky duality to it that I understand bombing it, and frequently do myself. Wind God in the Leaves, though, you should have no reason to bomb if you line yourself up at the right gaps (the wider ones, not the narrow ones). I usually bomb Cork God myself, because I know those kind of patterns are my weak spot. You did very well up until the end.

Your Sanae fights were going great (though peppered with perhaps a few more safety bombs than rightly needed), up until Star Ritual, which was a shame to see you die to.

In the Kanako fight, bombing yourself to 0.65 by Hunting Ritual is very unfortunate though, almost a bomb a life segment. This implies you need some more practice to feel confident in your approach. After dying to this, the pattern persists, and you die to her next nonspell as well. You reach Mountain of faith at 2.50, almost all from the drops from the spellcard. Yowzer. 3 lives though is a fantastic position to be in to ensure a clear though, so that bombspam was worth it in a way. You make it halfway through its HP before your first bomb, and just about no-death'd it, but you get caught by the classic "hit by a card as the spellcard is exploding" that happens to everyone. Very nice work, all in all, but plenty of room for cleaning things up.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Balcerzak
paragraphs

[ZemZem]

Yeah, I'm just glad I achieved that 1cc. Thanks Bal.

[Kriemhild]

Bal, paragraphs, please

Edited October 19, 2014 by Railgun

[Balcerzak]

Bal, paragraphs, please

but I was being lazy.

fine, better?

[ZemZem]

That was a semi-blind semi-scoring MoF Normal 1cc, haha.

[Kriemhild]

I DID IT

I FINALLY DID IT

I CLEARED DDC EXTRA

I've been attempting Raiko far longer than any other Ex boss (like, even before my first Ex clear), so this is something really special for me

Also, this was also the first time I got past Blue Lady Show. When I saw her final spell, I realized it had four stages. The first phase was pretty easy so I decided to try stalling it out. It went well, until the timer hit 30 seconds, after which Raiko unleashed a barrage of impossible waves. I was able to survive because SakuyaA's bomb is too OP.

Only Windows Extra bosses I have left now are Koishi, Nue, and... Ran. And I still haven't cleared Rika or Alice for PC-98s. Hmmm...

[ZemZem]

You can do it!

[ZemZem]

So on UFO Lunatic, I captured:

Nazrin's midboss spell

Nazrin's first boss spell

Kogasa's midboss spell (on my first try :O)

Now I'm never doing UFO Lunatic again.

[Fera]

I AM SUCCESSFUL: http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=34988

1cced MoF Normal. And I captured Illusionary Dominance!

Mountain of Faith (Kanako's spell) really is easier on Normal lol

grats

So on UFO Lunatic, I captured:

Nazrin's midboss spell

Nazrin's first boss spell

Kogasa's midboss spell (on my first try :O)

Now I'm never doing UFO Lunatic again.

lol

[Scarlet]

I think I need to actually learn how to deal with Blue Lady Show. RAYKITTY, any tips on how to tackle it, besides Sakuya's knife trick?

Go counter-clockwise in the first phase, but clock-wise in the second and third. Additionally, if at all possible, try to stay low on the screen during the third phase or dodging Raiko's additional bullets is nigh impossible.

I DID IT

I FINALLY DID IT

I CLEARED DDC EXTRA

Congrats!

Now do it with the other five shot types

Also, this was also the first time I got past Blue Lady Show. When I saw her final spell, I realized it had four stages. The first phase was pretty easy so I decided to try stalling it out. It went well, until the timer hit 30 seconds, after which Raiko unleashed a barrage of impossible waves.

Well, you're not supposed to stall it out, so... xD

As far as I'm aware, all Extra bosses go completely bat-shit if you let the timer reach 30 or less seconds on their final spellcard (it is, in a way, very similar to Gengetsu's Rape Time^TM), so you'll usually want to just do it the way you're supposed to. xD

Only Windows Extra bosses I have left now are Koishi, Nue, and... Ran. And I still haven't cleared Rika or Alice for PC-98s. Hmmm...

I'd leave SA Extra for last.

If you can deal with UFO Extra's stage part (and EX Kogasa, in particular), Nue isn't that bad. Otherwise, just go for Ran. Princess Tenko really isn't as hard as you make it out to be. xD

[Kriemhild]

Go counter-clockwise in the first phase, but clock-wise in the second and third. Additionally, if at all possible, try to stay low on the screen during the third phase or dodging Raiko's additional bullets is nigh impossible.

Hmm, I was never really concerned about direction. In my cleared run, I made it through by spending A LOT of bombs (with each bomb saving my life twice because SakuyaA).

I did capture it in Spell Practice, but I abused the knives and it resulted in the spell being captured before the third phase even started >_<

Congrats!

Now do it with the other five shot types

Thanks!

I was far too dependent on SakuyaA's amazing bomb though. I don't know if I can pull this off with anybody else, especially since 3 of the other shot types have damaging bombs (i.e. useless against Raiko's spells) while SakuyaB is awful survival-wise. MarisaB is the only one I'd seriously consider, but I bet I'll have a really hard time with her anyway

Well, you're not supposed to stall it out, so... xD

As far as I'm aware, all Extra bosses go completely bat-shit if you let the timer reach 30 or less seconds on their final spellcard (it is, in a way, very similar to Gengetsu's Rape Time^TM), so you'll usually want to just do it the way you're supposed to. xD

I wasn't actually aware of that. I knew that some final spells reach get tougher as time passes (without intentionally stalling them, that is) while others were dependent on HP. In particular, I read somewhere that Koishi's final spell is purely HP-based and will never leave the first phase no matter how much time passes if you go pacifist. Since Raiko's was HP-based (since I could see the segments in the HP meter), I thought that running the timer wouldn't make the pattern any worse.

I'd leave SA Extra for last.

B-but it was the first one that Fera cleared all by himself, so it can't be THAT hard, right? Right...?

If you can deal with UFO Extra's stage part (and EX Kogasa, in particular), Nue isn't that bad.

I can deal with Kogasa's first and last spell but the Mt Ooe wannabe is just too much for me. While I can reach Nue with two extra lives, I seriously can't real with her second spell at all. If it's because I'm using ReimuA, maybe I should try unlocking it with MarisaA/SanaeB first.

Otherwise, just go for Ran. Princess Tenko really isn't as hard as you make it out to be. xD

For most players, it's probably not bad, no. But for me, I have serious problems with that kind of spell. What makes it worse than other Ex spells that trouble me is that Ran is mostly invincible during the spell and is only vulnerable when she sends out the bullets i.e. during the moments that I need to bomb to, except that would make her invincible >_>. I can bomb to Suwako's stationary bullets, Mamizou's school, etc (probably not popularly considered to be difficult, but I can't handle them) and get by just fine, but bombing to Tenko won't help me overcome the roadblock at all. If anything, it just makes it worse because it gets faster and faster...

I should probably still try it again though. It's been a while since I last fought Ran after all.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Railgun

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

Am I the only one that thinks Utsuho is the final boss most likely to kill you from her death explosion

It would be kinda fitting at least

In other news got a Easy SA 1cc with MarisaA god the gaps are huge after just a bit of normal mode ;~;

Awful Orin fight and probably my worst Utsuho fight ever finished on my last live after getting to stage 5 with 8 extra and an incomplete one go me (~ouo)~

[Scarlet]

Hmm, I was never really concerned about direction. In my cleared run, I made it through by spending A LOT of bombs (with each bomb saving my life twice because SakuyaA).

You'd be surprised how managable the first two phases actually are if you just move in the right direction. xD

However, the third is insanely hard no matter what you do. I've yet to actually capture Blue Lady Show without the SakuyaA cheese.

I was far too dependent on SakuyaA's amazing bomb though. I don't know if I can pull this off with anybody else, especially since 3 of the other shot types have damaging bombs (i.e. useless against Raiko's spells) while SakuyaB is awful survival-wise. MarisaB is the only one I'd seriously consider, but I bet I'll have a really hard time with her anyway

Keep in mind that a bomb that deals damage is still good to have against Raiko's tougher non-spells; besides, all the damaging bombs in this game also are very good at clearing the screen from bullets, so they're really not that bad.

Contrary to what you might think, as amazing as MarisaB is in the main game, she's completely terrible in the Extra Stage. She'll have a lot of resources by the time she reaches Raiko, but her bombs will be completely useless; in fact, during some of Raiko's spells, bombing with MarisaB is a very good way to make sure you die. Raiko stays invincible for the entirety of the Power Sphere's lifespan; Marisa won't. Do the math. Worse yet, the sphere doesn't protect you from the lightning lasers in Spellcard #5 and #8.

Honestly, the next-best shot types after SakuyaA to tackle DDC Extra with are both of Reimu's.

The only shot type worse than MarisaB for DDC Extra is SakuyaB, because she can barely get half the amount of resources MarisaB does... ...while doing far less damage and having a bomb that is barely any better than MarisaB's.

I wasn't actually aware of that. I knew that some final spells reach get tougher as time passes (without intentionally stalling them, that is) while others were dependent on HP. In particular, I read somewhere that Koishi's final spell is purely HP-based and will never leave the first phase no matter how much time passes if you go pacifist. Since Raiko's was HP-based (since I could see the segments in the HP meter), I thought that running the timer wouldn't make the pattern any worse.

It's cheese-protection, really; even most HP-based final spells activate Rape Mode when the timer hits 30. Dunno about Koishi's off-hand, would have to check.

B-but it was the first one that Fera cleared all by himself, so it can't be THAT hard, right? Right...?

You cannot get full Power by the midboss even if you collect every single Power item available, the midboss is by far the hardest in any Extra Stage (and doesn't drop any Power at all), and you get no Extends whatsoever until well into the fight with Koishi. Koishi herself has some pretty nasty spellcards, too. The stage itself is pretty tame and Koishi's non-spells are lame, but even though it's the second Extra Stage I ever cleared, I would definitely consider it the hardest.

I can deal with Kogasa's first and last spell but the Mt Ooe wannabe is just too much for me.

I can't deal with that one, either, but as long as you don't die, you should be fine (just bomb it). I'd honestly recommend going for bombs over lives in the Extra Stage; they don't damage Nue, but bombing doesn't drop your Power and still kills the annoying UFOs Nue summons in about half of her spellcards, usually giving you some breathing room. In my experience, if you drop below 3 Power during the fight with Nue and she still has any significant amount of spellcards left, you might as well just give up.

However, I ought to mention that Nue has a spellcard that is pretty similar to Princess Tenko in how it is dealt with (instead of teleporting on top of you, she dashes at you), and while it's possible to treat it like a survival card and just time it out, you're better off depleting its HP before it gets too fast. Definitely try to have full Power for that one.

If it's because I'm using ReimuA, maybe I should try unlocking it with MarisaA/SanaeB first.

ReimuA is in fact the shot type I cleared UFO Extra with, so you should be fine. MarisaA and SanaeB have some advantages against the UFO cards, but surprisingly enough, ReimuA actually beats them in raw damage output.

While I can reach Nue with two extra lives, I seriously can't real with her second spell at all.

It's some weird combination of misdirection and streaming, but it's definitely one of Nue's harder spellcards. It's fine if you can't capture it; depending on your timing (if you time it well, you can protect yourself from the current wave of UFOs and kill the next wave the instant it spawns, all with a single bomb), a bomb or two should get you through it.

If you'd like some visual guidance, here's the replay of my UFO Extra Clear with ReimuA I uploaded a while ago.

Am I the only one that thinks Utsuho is the final boss most likely to kill you from her death explosion

It would be kinda fitting at least

It can definitely catch you off-guard, but Byakuren's is worse. xD

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

It can definitely catch you off-guard, but Byakuren's is worse. xD

Hmm, i dunno, I only cleared Byakuren once and i can't remember that well but that might be more her final spell being harder?

you know, now I kinda wish SA had something akin to Resurrection Butterfly or Hourai Elixir...