HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 i was talking to a friend about this and he made me wonder how many characters in fire emblem could actually stand toe to toe with the black knight, in either FE9 or FE10. assuming that the black knight doesn't get his skills if he faces someone from a game without skills to make it bit more fair. ...also not sure if this belongs in this section of the board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Is this without his blessed armor in 9 I assume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Is this without his blessed armor in 9 I assume? for the sake of debate, lets say he doesn't have blessed armor, just so we might be able to get more names here, assuming they can take him on in the first place without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Effective weapons like heavy spear, amorslayer and hammer aren't that good in FE9. No physical unit can double BK, only Naesala can. I think Giffca does the most regular damage with 20. In FE10 in 3-7 Boyd with hammer could do serious damage to him. I think Caineghis could kill him with 3 hits. Edited October 31, 2014 by The Taninator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Effective weapons like heavy spear, amorslayer and hammer aren't that good in FE9. No physical unit can double BK, only Naesala can. I think Giffca does the most regular damage with 20. In FE10 in 3-7 Boyd with hammer could do serious damage to him. I think Caineghis could kill him with 3 hits. that is true, though they'd still risk eating a one hit kill from his skill EDIT: not to mention boyd's at a weapon triangle disadvantage Edited October 31, 2014 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) that is true, though they'd still risk eating a one hit kill from his skill Without third tier units it's impossible. Rolf and Shinon with silencer (they can double him), Soren, Ilyana and finishing him with hammer. And don't forget Reyson in 3-7. Edited October 31, 2014 by The Taninator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Sephiran if he was playable Greil if he used a sword Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Without third tier units it's impossible. Rolf and Shinon with silencer (they can double him), Soren, Ilyana and finishing him with hammer. And don't forget Reyson in 3-7. well i was talking about a one on one fight with the Black Knight, like what ike did Sephiran if he was playable Greil if he used a sword these i think i could see happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think Micaiah could kill him easily with Thani since it is SUPER EFFECTIVE! and has more hit than Hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think Micaiah could kill him easily with Thani since it is SUPER EFFECTIVE! and has more hit than Hammer. assuming she can survive his attacks, i think she could, maybe she can one shot him if its a forged thani, can someone do the math on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 And don't forget Reyson in 3-7. How? Also, on Greil...idk. We can say it was the weapon triangle disadvantage that got him, but I've had lots of times where I was able to have say, an axe user go up against a sword user and win. I'm more willing to bet he was just a bit rusty. He hadn't been in actual combat at all in the short time he was alive in PoR. Sparring with Ike doesn't count. It was a combination of him not having to kill or be killed for a long time and underestimating BK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Oh, you meant gameplay-wise. ): Was going to say Ashnard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 How? Also, on Greil...idk. We can say it was the weapon triangle disadvantage that got him, but I've had lots of times where I was able to have say, an axe user go up against a sword user and win. I'm more willing to bet he was just a bit rusty. He hadn't been in actual combat at all in the short time he was alive in PoR. Sparring with Ike doesn't count. It was a combination of him not having to kill or be killed for a long time and underestimating BK. That's not true. Let me see if I can count the ways without referring to the script... -In the chapter where you're defending the mercenary fort against Daien, Greil takes the rear exit alone. I don't think he would have stayed there if there wasn't fighting to be done. -Greil, Shinon and Gatrie create a diversion during the chapter where Ike and the rest cross the river and fight the halberdier boss (first promo'd boss in the game I think). They almost certainly fought Daien forces at this time. -After the river crossing chapter, Ike and co. end up at a fort and get ambushed by Daien troops lying in wait. A turn or two (actually it may be based on progression through the map, I don't know) after this, Greil shows up with Gatrie and Shinon and kills a unit (I think a knight). -After this, Greil has a duel with Petrine. He doesn't kill her, but it's implied that he has the upper hand while they are fighting. So he's probably in pretty good shape at this point if he can beat out Petrine, who is pretty strong. -Also, a more tenuous one...during the chapter where you fight pirates with Ike, Shinon, Titania and Gatrie, Greil has Oscar and Boyd (and maybe Rhys too?) off with him on another mission. It's not clear if they were in combat at this time, though. Anyway, the primary reason for Greil losing stated in game is that he had cut tendons in his strong hand to enable Volke to kill him more easily if he lost control due to the medallion. This is why he doesn't use Ragnell. I would assume that cut tendons make it harder to use an axe as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Rolf with maxed speed, double bow and a triangle attack would be enough to beat him in one turn. He can get a maximum attack power of 63 (36 strength + 22 might of double bow + 3 strength boost double bow + 2 strength boost due to support, red dragons excluded). BK has 70 HP and a defense of 40. So my damage calculation: 3*(63-40)+(63-40)= 92. 92>70 I think Micaiah with boosts of Nasir could beat him in one turn too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Rolf with maxed speed, double bow and a triangle attack would be enough to beat him in one turn. He can get a maximum attack power of 63 (36 strength + 22 might of double bow + 3 strength boost double bow + 2 strength boost due to support, red dragons excluded). BK has 70 HP and a defense of 40. So my damage calculation: 3*(63-40)+(63-40)= 92. 92>70 I think Micaiah with boosts of Nasir could beat him in one turn too. that's pretty cool actually, thank you for doing all that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 That's not true. Let me see if I can count the ways without referring to the script... -In the chapter where you're defending the mercenary fort against Daien, Greil takes the rear exit alone. I don't think he would have stayed there if there wasn't fighting to be done. -Greil, Shinon and Gatrie create a diversion during the chapter where Ike and the rest cross the river and fight the halberdier boss (first promo'd boss in the game I think). They almost certainly fought Daien forces at this time. -After the river crossing chapter, Ike and co. end up at a fort and get ambushed by Daien troops lying in wait. A turn or two (actually it may be based on progression through the map, I don't know) after this, Greil shows up with Gatrie and Shinon and kills a unit (I think a knight). -After this, Greil has a duel with Petrine. He doesn't kill her, but it's implied that he has the upper hand while they are fighting. So he's probably in pretty good shape at this point if he can beat out Petrine, who is pretty strong. -Also, a more tenuous one...during the chapter where you fight pirates with Ike, Shinon, Titania and Gatrie, Greil has Oscar and Boyd (and maybe Rhys too?) off with him on another mission. It's not clear if they were in combat at this time, though. Anyway, the primary reason for Greil losing stated in game is that he had cut tendons in his strong hand to enable Volke to kill him more easily if he lost control due to the medallion. This is why he doesn't use Ragnell. I would assume that cut tendons make it harder to use an axe as well... Well that's what I get for not playing PoR in eons. I remembered he weakened his sword/axe hand though...still, the part about him underestimating the BK still stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceBrand Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Been awhile since played FE9 and 10 but can Tibarn stand a chance? Both gameplay and story? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I could actually hack that blessed armor off him in FE9 and use Average stats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceBrand Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I could actually hack that blessed armor off him in FE9 and use Average stats? Like what Goldie did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I could actually hack that blessed armor off him in FE9 and use Average stats? IMO you should use Tibarn's base stats, at least for FE9...since Tibarn's chance to level a bit in FE9 comes after the fight with the BK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Well that's what I get for not playing PoR in eons. I remembered he weakened his sword/axe hand though...still, the part about him underestimating the BK still stands. Well, why do you think Greil underestimated the Black Knight? He couldn't have used his sword even if he wanted. And the fact that he went out to face him alone implies that he had a pretty good idea about how powerful the Black Knight was. After all, Greil was way above everyone in his group. I mean, he was able to wipe the floor with an endgame boss without breaking a sweat. If he couldn't beat the Black Knight, then nobody else could either. But if he could beat the Black Knight, then help wasn't needed anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 There isn't much to the movie script, but it still kinda shows confidence on Greil's side: Greil: You think you can defeat me? The man who taught you how to fight? What a fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 There isn't much to the movie script, but it still kinda shows confidence on Greil's side: not to mention the next words after those are "come on boy, just try me!" it was either false courage or he was legibly cocky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 There isn't much to the movie script, but it still kinda shows confidence on Greil's side: not to mention the next words after those are "come on boy, just try me!" it was either false courage or he was legibly cocky Yep and yep. I don't think he's the kind of guy who would run out and get himself killed on purpose. If he was suicidal at any point...it would be when he got ahold of the medallion and as a result, killed his wife. That would make anybody question whether or not they deserve to remain alive. I have a feeling if Ike and Mist weren't around, he probably would've hung himself or something. His death scene was hands down one of the saddest dang things I've ever seen. But he seemed at peace before he went, like he knew he would be with Elena again and that she had very much likely forgiven him. Did he know about the blessed armor though? Maybe there's another reason he didn't use Ragnell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Did he know about the blessed armor though? Maybe there's another reason he didn't use Ragnell.. I suspect the answer to this is no, simply because Zelgius showed up in Ike's memory scene without the armor he wears as the BK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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