grandjackal Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 So, Ragna Ferox has a lot of really snowy winter maps, but that doesn't say much. However, I noticed the recent notes on the unused chapter stuff the site recently put up, and one thing it did was put up thumbnails of all the maps that were used in the game, one of them being Anna's first appearance (Twin's Turf). I felt a strange sense of deja vu. when I had that angle of view on the map. Then it hit me. http://www.fireemblemwod.com/fe4/guia/cap4.htm http://serenesforest.net/wp-content/gallery/awakening-map-templates/X2_Floor.png It's northeast Silesia before Thove, and that village is the same place you get the Defense Sword. Now obviously it could just be a reference map for nostalgia (and it probably is), but I just found it amusing. Not sure if anyone else noticed this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The map is indeed the same, but Jugdral and Archenea are two different continents. Just because it's the same map layout doesn't mean it's the same place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 I know, just found it amusing is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) The map is indeed the same, but Jugdral and Archenea are two different continents. Just because it's the same map layout doesn't mean it's the same place. Awakening's continent has a similar layout to Archanea as well, but is it ever stated to be Archanea? It certainly has none of the lore and none of the location names, which leaves it with just as strong ties to Archanea as any other continent. Edited November 16, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Well if Marth is stated to be their ancestor, unless they collectively picked up base and left, then it's likely they stayed on the continent they were on. IIRC Valm is supposed to be whatever FE2 takes place on. I mean looking at my knowledge of Chinese history, place names overall certainly have changed a lot over 2000 years, so I wouldn't say it impossible that all the placenames just changed over time. Didn't help that IS didn't exactly flesh out Awakening lore well, though. Edited November 16, 2014 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 IIRC, Valm and Archanea are close enough together such that Palla, Catria, Est, and Zeke made the hop over. Furthermore, Chrom wields Falchion, which was Marth's blade. It stands to reason that Ylisse was once Archanea, if Valm is an ocean away. Plus, Archanea and the eastern half of FE13's world look really similar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Is Valm/Valencia ever stated to be to the west of Archanea though? For all we know, Archanea could be further west of Valm. Awakening also sets a precedent for past Lords traveling to separate worlds where their descendants now live with Priam, so Marth's descendants living on another continent wouldn't be too implausible... Except that Chrom is a descendant of the First Exalt, not Marth (no, they're not the same). There have already been multiple Falchions (Gaiden), and Naga is confirmed in FE4 to be a world hopper, so there's really nothing tying Archanea to Awakening's continent. Now, I'm not saying any of this confirms that Awakening's continent isn't Archanea. My personal opinion on the matter is that the devs tried deliberately to make a continent that, should Awakening be the last FE, would be assumed by all to be Archanea and end the series by "going back to its roots", so to speak, but if it was a success and the series continued, they'd be able to make a sequel in which they could freely expand on the new continent's lore without having to retcon anything. Edited November 16, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninian Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I am fairly certain Awakening was meant as an "end strong and throw everything at it" game. That said, with Fire Emblem's arcane universe overall, and the effects 2000 years can have in a universe, (see Shinra and Sage Yulyana, but beware of SPOILERS) there may have been some shifting around. Ike's descendant is in Valm, or new Valencia. Lucina is disguised as her ancestor, the Hero-King Marth. How Silesia came to be there, if it is Ferox, nobody knows. But given how the Outrealm can bring people through dimensions into the destroyed Valor Isle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Except that Chrom is a descendant of the First Exalt, not Marth (no, they're not the same). There have already been multiple Falchions (Gaiden), and Naga is confirmed in FE4 to be a world hopper, so there's really nothing tying Archanea to Awakening's continent. I'm 99% positive that Marth is explicitly stated to be Chrom and Lucina's ancestor. And I've seen lots of stuff on the wiki that states that Ylisse and Plegia are Archanea and that Valm is what Valencia became some time after Alm took over (in fact, it was named after him), and I'm assuming that not TOO much baseless unsourced bullshit gets posted there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookofholsety Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 tiki and flavia explicitly talk about how ferox used to be the untamed, barbarian-ruled icy wastelands housing the ice dragon temple in which tiki slept as a child, and where marth found her in fe3/12. ricken mentions visiting the ghoul's teeth, a fe1/11 location. although it differs somewhat in design, the fe13 dragon's table is in the exact same place as the fe3/12 dragon's table fe13 being set on archanea is, if not impossible, really hard to legitimately dispute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 If there was a bit more evidence, I would start to suspect that Jugdral is an alternate universe version of Archanea. According to the lore, Galle traveled to Archanea from Jugdral, but nowhere did it state he traveled between the same world nor was it specified where Jugdral is. Valentia is definitely west from Archanea though (even though The Complete has their positions flipped, but it's just a fan book at the end of the day). The thing that bothers me is when Chrom and co. talk about the legends of "Valentia", almost as if it shares no relation to Valm, when it should. Which makes me wonder if Valm and Ylisse are alternate universe versions of Valentia and Archanea too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I seem to remember in the japanese version that The Demon's Ingle was meant to be the place where the dark god from FE Gaiden was defeated and sealed. It was called "Doma's Remains". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 That's another oddity as Doma's Remains/the Demon's Ingle is just below the centre of Valm, while Doma was sealed towards the far north. I really don't think IS mucked up the geography, so something weird must be going on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Stewart Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I really don't think IS mucked up the geography, so something weird must be going on... I think that IS just didn't give a shit about geography/continuity and just wanted to throw in a few cute nods to previous games in the franchise seems more likely to me than any implication that Awakening takes place in some sort of alternate universe, as much as I kinda wish it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirmola Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 According to the lore, Galle traveled to Archanea from Jugdral, but nowhere did it state he traveled between the same world nor was it specified where Jugdral is. The relevant fe4 quote occures in the final chapter's opening cutscene: Levin: “Legend has it Bishop Galle crossed the sea in his youth and traveled the world before founding the Loputo Empire. He was determined to drink the lifeblood of a legendary creature of the time. One sip promised powers of unimaginable proportions.” Celice: “You don’t mean the blood of the Ancient Dragon Tribe!? That’s all superstition, right?” Levin: “Yeah, but when Galle returned from his travels, he possessed unexplainable powers. He used his new powers to influence the young to his own devices. Before long he had built up a demonic legion of warriors that followed his every whim.” Sounds like he stayed in one universe to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 tiki and flavia explicitly talk about how ferox used to be the untamed, barbarian-ruled icy wastelands housing the ice dragon temple in which tiki slept as a child, and where marth found her in fe3/12. ricken mentions visiting the ghoul's teeth, a fe1/11 location. although it differs somewhat in design, the fe13 dragon's table is in the exact same place as the fe3/12 dragon's table fe13 being set on archanea is, if not impossible, really hard to legitimately dispute There really isn't any evidence directly disputing it. What I'm saying is that the evidence that does link it to Archanea is both barely anything more than any evidence linking it to the rest of the FEs, and it's certainly less than all the unexplained differences between this continent and Archanea. And for what it's worth, that Tiki/Flavia convo was added in DLC released after the game was, so it's possible IS made up their minds in between when the game was released and when it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The relevant fe4 quote occures in the final chapter's opening cutscene: Sounds like he stayed in one universe to me. There's a Dragon's Gate in Elibe across the sea and the Outrealm Gate in Ylisse is across the sea too ; ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khuriya Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 The thing that bothers me is when Chrom and co. talk about the legends of "Valentia", almost as if it shares no relation to Valm, when it should. Which makes me wonder if Valm and Ylisse are alternate universe versions of Valentia and Archanea too. It's almost like talking about old tales and histories of Rome as if there is no connection to modern-day Italy. In other words, nothing strange at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) It's almost like talking about old tales and histories of Rome as if there is no connection to modern-day Italy. In other words, nothing strange at all. Awakening doesn't suffer from the past being extremely different from the present (if anything, the past and present are fairly similar- heroes with legendary swords sealing evil dragons were and still are the status quo, and the main continent at least seems to have had no political shakeups for the last thousand years or so), it suffers from its lore not matching up to how we know the past (or at least other FEs) to be, which in turn implies that its past may not be any of the other FEs. To use your Rome analogy (applied to Cht.18 here), it would be as if an ancient Roman obtained the power of time travel, jumped 2,000 years into the future, and discovered that in the future the ruins of Rome were somehow on the opposite side of the continent that Rome used to be on, despite there being no plausible explanation for how it moved and nobody who thinks anything other than that Rome was always there. Edited November 17, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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