Ishi Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 So one of the biggest mysteries of the trailer was why there was a sword with a advantage over bows and I was thinking what if the weapon triangle was revamped. What i'm getting at is in Radiant Dawn the Magic system had the Elemental triangle Fire Wind and Thunder from FE4,5 and 9 as well as the GBA triangles with Light, Dark, and Anima so basically there was a Magic triangle within a Magic triangle. Perhaps in this game there is the traditional weapon triangle swords lances and axes but with a new twist of melee weaponry beating bows, while bows had and advantage over magic, and of course magic with an advantage over melee weapons. Anyways this is just my thoughts I think it be cool if this was the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 i think it might be more about "bows have the advantage in far range, but dis advantage in close range" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 i think it might be more about "bows have the advantage in far range, but dis advantage in close range" This is the most likely scenario, which doesn't bode well. Considering its going to benefit enemy archers more than player archers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) This is the most likely scenario, which doesn't bode well. Considering its going to benefit enemy archers more than player archers. I don't agree, the player is going to be much more careful about keeping archers out of 1 range combat than the computer. (Generally.) Edited January 15, 2015 by L95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I don't agree, the player is going to be much more careful about keeping archers out of 1 range combat than the computer. Enemy archers throughout near the entire series have been much more effective then player controlled ones. Ending various runs due to their obnoxious placement etc. Unless IS gives us archers the caliber of the Snipers we get (or even better) the enemy ones will once again be a thorn in our side while we wonder "Why can't we have good archers without grinding/babying ever again?" Edited January 15, 2015 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) ...I've never had trouble with enemy archers, but PEMN, I guess. Edited January 15, 2015 by L95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 ...I've never had trouble with enemy archers, but PEMN, I guess. Sorry if I came off a bit strongly, I'm just not feeling this mechanic currently. My mind could be changed later, who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunal Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I don't think there's an inherent problem with this change and the only arguments against it would be to do with unit balancing in general. Just because IS refuse to make actual good player unit Archers (Pretty much all of the starting archers in the series suck aside from maybe FE12 Ryan) doesn't mean this isn't a nice change. In the end though it's just a +1 MT, +10 HIT bonus to bows. So if stats on bows change relative to other weapons then nothing might change anyway. Edited January 15, 2015 by DLuna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Perhaps in this game there is the traditional weapon triangle swords lances and axes but with a new twist of melee weaponry beating bows, while bows had and advantage over magic, and of course magic with an advantage over melee weapons. Anyways this is just my thoughts I think it be cool if this was the case. i think it might be more about "bows have the advantage in far range, but dis advantage in close range"I think both theories are reasonable for the time being. Both have their advantages and disadvantages; in the former, Archers will always be at a disadvantage against non-Bow physical units, even when attacking, which tends to be a majority of the enemies, but they also have a special niche against potential problem enemies. In the latter, defending Archers from melee attacks becomes much more important, as does avoiding enemy Archers. I don't even know which I'd prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I think both theories are reasonable for the time being. Both have their advantages and disadvantages; in the former, Archers will always be at a disadvantage against non-Bow physical units, even when attacking, which tends to be a majority of the enemies, but they also have a special niche against potential problem enemies. In the latter, defending Archers from melee attacks becomes much more important, as does avoiding enemy Archers. I don't even know which I'd prefer. How would you feel if Radiant Dawn's high ground mechanic came back along with this new possible Weapon Advantage/Disadvantage? Would add more layers (ha puns) to tactics for and vs archers. (Which I liked in RD but I doubt we'll see it again) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 How would you feel if Radiant Dawn's high ground mechanic came back along with this new possible Weapon Advantage/Disadvantage? Would add more layers (ha puns) to tactics for and vs archers. (Which I liked in RD but I doubt we'll see it again) That would be cool if used well, but I doubt we'll see that happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 That would be cool if used well, but I doubt we'll see that happen. It always seemed odd to me they added the mechanic just to take it away just as quickly. Then again the next game was a remake sooo *shrugs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdports Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Honestly I'm just glad their is some new way to interact with archers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Sorry if I came off a bit strongly, I'm just not feeling this mechanic currently. My mind could be changed later, who knows. I didn't think you came off strongly, I just figured I haven't played hard mode enough to understand why enemy archers are an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 How would you feel if Radiant Dawn's high ground mechanic came back along with this new possible Weapon Advantage/Disadvantage? Would add more layers (ha puns) to tactics for and vs archers. (Which I liked in RD but I doubt we'll see it again) I would love for this to be back too! It made leveling up certain fragile characters like Soren easy because I could just place them on the edge of a ledge and have them own everybody because they would dodge almost every attack. These bow theories are interesting though, I can't wait to learn more about this myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoleo21 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 If we actually got a good archer? Yeah, I like that, but this largely means that enemy bows are going to be a pain to deal with especially knowing how suicidal the AI tends to be at times. At least bows are usable for once and not pointless compared to the other ranged stuff that is in the weapon triangle. This is all assuming bows actually get the boost at ranged. Otherwise, then the dream is dead for a FE that doesn't oppress bows without making a crazy individual sniper like Shinon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) I think it's a net bonus (given bows get wta at range) provided you check your ranges well enough. I do not have any issues with archers (unless I'm running a full airforce and they're literally everywhere) on even the hardest modes of any FE by paying attention. Although it'd put a slight dent on the defensive merits of the L+ Bowmode strat given that L+ makes a return. Edited January 16, 2015 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Has anyone considered the possibility of Slashing>Piercing>Blunt>Slashing? Seeing as another thing in the trailer was revealed was an axe user wielding an iron mace (seeing as it's got Iron next to it rather than just being a Mace, meaning it has Iron-Steel-Silver deal going on), it's another possibility to open up more weapon variety. Would also make it so certain classes aren't crippled/boosted by a chapter that has a dominance of one type of weapon. Would also put more thought into what weapon you use on player phase leading into enemy phase. It's not unreasonable for it to be just archers being more vulnerable at melee though. That makes total sense. I don't really see how it would change anything though. You already don't want them attacked at melee, and just making them slightly better at range doesn't help that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical CC Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Has anyone considered the possibility of Slashing>Piercing>Blunt>Slashing? Seeing as another thing in the trailer was revealed was an axe user wielding an iron mace (seeing as it's got Iron next to it rather than just being a Mace, meaning it has Iron-Steel-Silver deal going on), it's another possibility to open up more weapon variety. Would also make it so certain classes aren't crippled/boosted by a chapter that has a dominance of one type of weapon. Would also put more thought into what weapon you use on player phase leading into enemy phase. Then you only need a halberd to rule them all? It can stab, crush and slash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Then you only need a halberd to rule them all? It can stab, crush and slash.Someone's been playing too much Rune$cape. In the end, though, I think it will be much more simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-Naut Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Another possibility is automatic WTA over targets who can't counter you, although it's more likely a thing with bows. Might help discourage the use of javelins and magic (provided this applies there too) clearing everything indiscriminately, although there are better ways to achieve that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 A defensive/survivability nerf... Is not something Bows really need. There are a lot of ways to get around implementing one (starting with map design and enemy placement, which it looks like this game is indeed going to do), but it's going to be a net drag on the player if Lunatic+ makes a return. Trading items away for EP would become a lot more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) So one of the biggest mysteries of the trailer was why there was a sword with a advantage over bows Really? I just watched the trailer and didn't see anything of the sort... Another possibility is automatic WTA over targets who can't counter you, although it's more likely a thing with bows. Might help discourage the use of javelins and magic (provided this applies there too) clearing everything indiscriminately, although there are better ways to achieve that... How would having automatic WTA over units who can't counter you, discourage the use of javelins and magic? Surely it would do the exact opposite, since javelins and magic can counter bows? Edited January 17, 2015 by NinjaMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Really? I just watched the trailer and didn't see anything of the sort...0:55. Dunno how you haven't seen any screens or heard about this before now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) I'm a very busy man, that's why. Edited January 17, 2015 by NinjaMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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