Thought Experiment: What happens if we move the casts around?

[Irysa]

So I was thinking earlier today about this dumb proposition; How different and how completable would each FE game be on highest standard difficulty (No Lunatic Reverse/+) if we swapped out that game's roster with a roster from a different game?

Rules.

1. Character growths, base stats and ranks are untouched. The exception to the rule is that hard mode bonuses are only applicable if the game has a hard mode, and those bonuses must come from the game they originate from. That is to say, FE6 characters may recieve their FE6 HM bonuses in FE11 H5, but FE11 characters cannot recieve HM bonuses in FE6 HM because their game doesn't actually have HM bonuses. If a character's base stats are over the cap for that stat in a game, then they are capped.
2. Class growths and bases for reclassing can modify the stats and growths of characters.
3. Each individual game's mechanics still apply. Weapon rank growth (or lack of thereof), requirements, reclassing, skills etc, are only relevant in the actual game those characters currently in. Eg: Robin cannot have Veteran in FE8 but Ike can have Aether in FE13. Orsin's Wrath will work in FE10, but Haar's cancel doesn't exist in FE5.
4. Characters may keep their Prf Weapons as replacement for other Prf weapons but simply recieve them at the designated point in time for the plot that the equivilant character would. The stats of the weapons are not changed, but any effective weapon calc is based on the game they are currently in for localised versions. (Eliwood's Rapier becomes 21 Effective Mt in FE12)
5. Supports work as they would in the game they are in, but the support pool is based off a character's support pool from the game they originate from. Bond bonuses carry between games if they require no building (Tellius brothers trio).
6. Child characters from FE4/13 complicate matters far too much so they are considered to not exist unless the game actually facilitates them existing.
7. Recruitment is roughly generalised to the same timeframe for each individual game. Not all the games are the same length, and have nowhere near the same characters but we have many familiar recruitment scenarios to replace X characters into. Eg, I can assume Joshua is recruited in place of Rutger in FE6. For the more fuzzy assumptions, be generous, but not absurd.

If you have any more suggestions for rules or stuff I've forgotten feel free to add in.

Obviously the initial problem is - with the exception of the FE13 and FE12 casts, who can complete Lunatic for FE13 and 12? FE10 seems like a good bet given that it has the most inflated stats prior to Awakening, pretty high growths and an abundance of potential recruits that could be utilised for pair up suiciding units along their merry way. Sothe can easily substitute for buff Chris/Robin and can likely carry the game for a long time until you recieve better units with which to focus on, and in FE12 there's drill grounds.

So how about lower? Pre FE10, casts would be statistically at a significant disadvantage and their growths likely not good enough to compete with the stats of enemies. I think FE6 units would be at the best chance of managing to get by given their HM bonuses in FE12, but in 13 it seems daunting and unlikely for Marcus to get you through the earlygame hell. If you did, it's possible that DarkMage!Lilina with a quick Roy support could Nosferatank the game, but her paltry defence and hp make this seem unlikely.

Given that Pent likely replaces Niime, FE6 probably changes remarkably little if we substitute FE7 characters. Adding in FE8 OTOH would result in Seth pretty much obliterating most of the game quite handily, but the lack of a Warp user may prove a headache in later chapters without grinding.

The fact Tellius games have BEXP probably means that even with lower base stats and growths, that most games prior should be able to make up the difference, so I don't see this one as particularly interesting.

How about SNES teams? Would they stand a chance in later games with Hard Modes? I have little experience here so I can't theory, but most seem like they would struggle.

[Magical Glace]

FE13's cast would destroy anything pre FE9. FE10's too, b/c third tiers.

FE2's cast would be stomped by FE6. As would FE11/12's, because Res might as well not exist for them.

Pelleas would destroy the fire Dragon. Luna~

[Scarlet]

Obviously the initial problem is - with the exception of the FE13 and FE12 casts, who can complete Lunatic for FE13 and 12? FE10 seems like a good bet given that it has the most inflated stats prior to Awakening, pretty high growths and an abundance of potential recruits that could be utilised for pair up suiciding units along their merry way. Sothe can easily substitute for buff Chris/Robin and can likely carry the game for a long time until you recieve better units with which to focus on, and in FE12 there's drill grounds.

So how about lower? Pre FE10, casts would be statistically at a significant disadvantage and their growths likely not good enough to compete with the stats of enemies. I think FE6 units would be at the best chance of managing to get by given their HM bonuses in FE12, but in 13 it seems daunting and unlikely for Marcus to get you through the earlygame hell. If you did, it's possible that DarkMage!Lilina with a quick Roy support could Nosferatank the game, but her paltry defence and hp make this seem unlikely.

I could actually see FE5 characters do okay-ish. Some of them have really crazy growths, stopped mostly by the universal 20 caps in their origin game. In FE13 in particular, they'd even get to keep most of the really absurd skill combinations that make some of them so good.

How about SNES teams? Would they stand a chance in later games with Hard Modes? I have little experience here so I can't theory, but most seem like they would struggle.

FE5 characters should do fine in any game, really. FE4 characters have pretty bad growths for the most part, but positively insane base stats compared to the standards of the later games, so they should be able to bulldoze through most of the later games with little issues, barring FE10 and probably FE12/13 Lunatic.

[CT075]

Consider that Levin!Sety has some-odd 47 base speed. Even if change Forseti to be the unridiculous FE13 version, he'd still be largely adequate for a lot of the endgame.

(I suppose this is one reason why kids are just not being considered)

Edited February 3, 2015 by CT075

[dondon151]

Given that Pent likely replaces Niime, FE6 probably changes remarkably little if we substitute FE7 characters. Adding in FE8 OTOH would result in Seth pretty much obliterating most of the game quite handily, but the lack of a Warp user may prove a headache in later chapters without grinding.

warp availability is low and it's easy to grind canas or erk up to A rank staves in LTC, so of course saleh, artur, and even lute would have no problem.

[Irysa]

Weapon rank growth would still be in the slow form of FE6's, so I have my doubts on that. Saleh would start the highest but would require 50 (iirc) turns of constant dance staff spamming to reach Warp in FE6.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Irysa

[X-Naut]

FE13's cast would destroy anything pre FE9. FE10's too, b/c third tiers.

FE2's cast would be stomped by FE6. As would FE11/12's, because Res might as well not exist for them.

On the other hand, FE6's cast in FE11 is hilarious. In the long run most characters (save for peg knights) will be better due to higher growths/base levels, although earlygame is a mixed bag. Many characters win in some stats but lose in others (Dieck's not doubling H5 pirates but does more per hit, Fighters have worse Speed but better HP), and some flat-out lose due to GBA class bases being lower. Meanwhile Marcus is a straight upgrade from Jagen and one-rounds Ch1 pirates with his Silver Lance. Then we have Rutger, who replaces Navarre and has HM bonuses...

Rutger (Lv. 4 Myrmidion): 26 HP (85%) / 9 Str (30%) / 0 Mag / 14 Skl (60%) / 15 Spd (50%) / 4 Luk (30%) / 6 Def (20%) / 1 Res (20%)

Rutger (Lv. 4 Cavalier): 28 HP (75%) / 11 Str (35%) / 0 Mag / 7 Skl (65%) / 10 Spd (35%) / 4 Luk (30%) / 9 Def (30%) / 1 Res (20%)

I don't think Hyman will be such a big deal anymore... well, unless you're LTCing. But HM bonuses aren't necessary to win it big here. Take a look at Geese, for example (remember, the only other pirate is Darros):

Geese (Lv. 10 Pirate): 33 HP (85%) / 10 Str (50%) / 0 Mag / 9 Skl (30%) / 9 Spd (40%) / 9 Luk (40%) / 8 Def (20%) / 0 Res (10%)

Geese (Lv. 10/1 Hero): 37 HP (65%) / 11 Str (30%) / 1 Mag / 18 Skl (40%) / 15 Spd (50%) / 9 Luk (40%) / 11 Def (25%) / 3 Res (15%)

Geese (Lv. 15/1 Hero): 41.25 HP / 13.5 Str / 1 Mag / 19.5 Skl / 17 Spd / 11 Luk / 12 Def / 3.5 Res

I included two Hero stats because one's more realistic (and could go even higher) while the other shows how amazing his bases are. Basically, we take a shitty pirate and turn him into a crutch character, but also give him better overall growths than the vanilla axe users and insane promotion potential. Pirates 3HKO him and he's one Str away from Hammer weight. Oh, and he has a B in Axes, and I don't think inventories carry over but God help Dolhr if they do. Why? On the "canon" route, he joins with a Brave Axe. Sure, axe availability is shit, but you still have the Hammer and Marcus can Ridersbane just fine.

Oh, and Warp users? Maybe Elen and Clarine lack C Staves, but Saul's coming in Chapter 1 or 5 so you're only missing... Ch4, really. There's no Wing Spear, but with monsters like Rutger, Jeigan, and Geese are your disposal you won't be short on boss-killers.

tl;dr no Caeda and Lena but you'll manage with Marcus, Rutger, Geese and Saul.

[Jotari]

Would Roy still promote super late in any game he's in?

Edited February 4, 2015 by Jotari

[Irysa]

Roy's promotion is changed to whenever the Lord of that game promotes. If its a game with no Lord promotion then adhere it to the same timeframe of the original game that Lord is from.

[X-Naut]

Okay then Chapter 23 promotion gg Roy

Then again the Binding Blade is an amazing weapon and lets him utterly wreck Medeus, he 2HKOs at base Str and has 10 Crit to make rigging easier.

[Dragoncat]

Brandeds would be weaker in general if they were transfered. No laguz in any other world to be their parent/ancestor, and I think they tend to be better at magic/swordplay/whatever because of their brand? Best examples of this are Micaiah and Zelgius/BK. Soren is considered to be the best mage in RD, he's also branded. And then there's Stefan. Can't judge for him, been a long time since I've been at a part where he's playable.

We can give them manakete blood in Elibe, but there it wouldn't affect much. Ninian and Nils are half ice dragon. If Eliwood marries Ninian, Roy's one third ice dragon. And he's pretty much a normal human. If it was Akaneia they would be able to transform despite being only half manakete/taguel, which I still think makes little sense....

[NinjaMonkey]

Brandeds would be weaker in general if they were transfered. No laguz in any other world to be their parent/ancestor, and I think they tend to be better at magic/swordplay/whatever because of their brand? Best examples of this are Micaiah and Zelgius/BK. Soren is considered to be the best mage in RD, he's also branded. And then there's Stefan. Can't judge for him, been a long time since I've been at a part where he's playable.

Thing is, the OP states that all units would keep their growths and base stats. So if the Radiant Dawn cast was put into Sacred Stones, Micaiah would still keep her 80% magic growth.

[Dragoncat]

Thing is, the OP states that all units would keep their growths and base stats. So if the Radiant Dawn cast was put into Sacred Stones, Micaiah would still keep her 80% magic growth.

Storywise then....

[-Cynthia-]

Trying to complete FE6 with FE7's cast is probably tougher than the original. The FE7 Marcus is a bit better so maybe earlygame is easier (although Raven would probably replace Oujay, not Dieck...FE6 has a larger cast so it's tough to do 1-1). Heath's bases are significantly lower than Miledy's though and there isn't really a Percival equivalent- Harken's bases are kind of close but he doesn't have a horse and would be worse overall.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Interesting idea

FE7 into FE11. Assuming Eli = Marth

Eli is an interesting case. He actually have slightly worse stats than Marth, but he get +2 MT on Rapier by default, and late game Durandal. Thanks to the game mechanic, i assume Durandal won't be as much of a dead weight(cough) as FE7, since Eli would have gained some stats in STR. He would gain horse after Altea based on timeframe, which is still super late and.... hmmm Durandal is +5 over Falchion and +5 STR which is +20 damage

Pretty nice for casual i guess?

Who is Hector? If we are using story approach, Hector would be Hardin. I think I can easilly says Hardin > Hector simply because of lack of horse.

Flo is obviously worse than Sheeda without W1n Spear

Marcus is flat out broken lol. He combines the best of Wendell, Sheeda(with A-Slayer/Hammer i guess), and Jeigan and turn it up to eleven. He lacks one speed over base Sheeda tho

Are we getting Pent 9 when we get THE POPE? That would be crazy OP

I did not go deep into its, but FE5 is pretty interesting

Our Jeigan is an unpromoted High level cavalier with Brave instead of Silver Lance, and avg 30% growth on stats other than HP which is 60%-ish

Aside from that the base stats of Thracia characters stinks

[Irysa]

Who is Hector? If we are using story approach, Hector would be Hardin. I think I can easilly says Hardin > Hector simply because of lack of horse.

I think it's fairer to just make Hector replace Barst.

Are we getting Pent 9 when we get THE POPE? That would be crazy OP

Pent would replace Boah instead, Pent coming in that early is just ridiculous. I reckon Lucius would be Wendell.

Doing 1 to 1s for FE6 to 7 would be something like -

Eliwood - Roy

Marcus - Old Marcus

Kent - Lance

Sain - Alan

Bors - Oswin

Wolt - Rebecca

Thany - Florina

Wade - Dorcas

Lot - Bartre

Dieck - Hector

Ellen - Serra

Chad - Matthew

Lugh - Erk

Rutger - Guy

Clarine - Priscilla

Saul - Lucius

Dorothy - Wil

Sue - Lyn (not the greatest parallel but it's fairer to give her here than when Fir shows up)

Noah - Lowen (poor Lowen gets shafted hard)

Treck - None

Zealot - Isadora (a little early but whatever)

Astore - Legault

Wendy - None

Barth - None

Oujay - Raven

Lilina - None

Shin - Rath

Fir - None

Geese - Dart

Lalum/Elphin - Ninian/Nils

Gonzales - None

Echidna - Karla (They're incredibly similar statistically, shockingly)

Bartre - Geitz

Klein - None

Tate - Fiora

Ray - Canas

Miledy - Vaida is statistically very similar to instantpromote HM Miledy actually, so tbh I think she fits here better than Heath

No HM bonuses Percival - Karel (lol I'm trying to think of a way to make them mutually exclusive without offering early Harken)

Cecilia - None

Sophia - Nino

HM bonuses Percival - Harken

Garret - Hawkeye

Igrene - Louise

Fae - None

Zeiss - Heath

Douglas - Wallace (potentially Barth instead and no Douglas)

Cath - Jaffar

Hugh - None

Niime - Pent

Juno/Dayan - Farina

Yodel - Renault

Karel - Athos (Karel the Gotoh of FE6 so it makes more sense to just do this instead of Karel = Karel)

I think you all kind of forget how silly Oswin is when he gets turned into the early armorknight in a lot of games. Oswin over Draug is just ridiculous.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Irysa

[dondon151]

Weapon rank growth would still be in the slow form of FE6's, so I have my doubts on that. Saleh would start the highest but would require 50 (iirc) turns of constant dance staff spamming to reach Warp in FE6.

i got confused, i thought you meant FE8's cast -> FE7's game.

moulder would join in ellen's chapter and he has saul's base staff rank and approximately his base level.

[Irysa]

Ah sorry, I realise the wording is a little unclear. That's correct though, I thought Moulder started at D but it's been a while since I've played, so you should be fine.