Resetless Lunatic+ Run COMPLETED (Deathless) (With Complete Guide)

[Shadow Mir]

But wouldn't the bonus damage be worth it? I'm not completely used to lunatic but with decent str gains which panne should get because panne I feel like a carnivorous bunny is in order.

I doubt it, particularly given the one beaststone until chapter 11 crap. Also, Beast Killers say hi.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Levant Caprice

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

I doubt it, particularly given the one beaststone until chapter 11 crap. Also, Beast Killers say hi.

How many beats killers are in chapter 12 though? And if that's the worry then being a wyvern won't help.

[Shadow Mir]

How many beats killers are in chapter 12 though? And if that's the worry then being a wyvern won't help.

I meant that anyone using a Beast Killer would've done the job more efficiently.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

I meant that anyone using a Beast Killer would've done the job more efficiently.

Well yeah but panne needs xp for a good yarne and I can't think of a better chapter to snag some kills to top off.

I'm trying man D:

[Shadow Mir]

Well yeah but panne needs xp for a good yarne and I can't think of a better chapter to snag some kills to top off.

I'm trying man D:

And trying too hard, since I fail to see Beastbane as a good enough reason to stay in Taguel.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Have we done chapter 12 yet?

Last I checked we've done Cht.5 and are about to start Par.1. Unless I missed a stream, which is unlikely as I've kept the tab open the whole time and don't see anything in the chat...

But wouldn't the bonus damage be worth it?

It would be worth deploying a trained Taguel Panne and using her to fight... It definitely wouldn't be worth keeping her in Taguel that long.

How many beats killers are in chapter 12 though? And if that's the worry then being a wyvern won't help.

Enough that there aren't really any safe spots for her to take an enemy phase. You don't see them in the L+ runs because Kuroi is constantly running from them and doesn't have to fight any, but they're there. It's the most Beastkiller-heavy chapter in the game.

Being a Wyvern actually would help because a) she has Hand Axes to kill them from range and Hammers to OHKO the Knights with them, b) she has WTA so they miss more, c) she has Def so they're slightly tankable, and d) she has enough Mov to outrun them and shouldn't get cornered.

Well yeah but panne needs xp for a good yarne and I can't think of a better chapter to snag some kills to top off.

She's strong enough to take on Fighters in Cht.6 and actually do really well against them with a support, and Cht.7 is filled with inaccurate Wyverns and mountains to tank on. If she's not competing with Chrom for exp, she can usually get enough levels out of those two chapters alone to reclass with only moderate funneling.

Once she reclasses, she can feed on pretty much anything.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yeah, I was out of town on Friday and Sunday, so no stream those days. And tomorrow is a Days of Ruins stream. Hopefully I can get that map transcribed before we start. Otherwise, you guys might get to see just how odd and clunky that map editor really is. >.>

[Czar_Yoshi]

I may or may not be paying attention, finals being finals...

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Two weeks between runs. What could possibly go wrong? http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

[Czar_Yoshi]

What could possibly go wrong?

Kuroi: Every time I try to get that +10 Dge for this guy, the others tend to go all over the place and get out of control, so I think I'll hedge my bets and risk the 5% crit...

Barbarian: HEH HEH. YOU CHOOSE POORLY.

[Alastor15243]

Hey, if you're pretty much exclusively focusing on Avatar and not using a bow class, how exactly do you intend to get through the later levels and swarms of counter enemies?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Kuroi: Every time I try to get that +10 Dge for this guy, the others tend to go all over the place and get out of control, so I think I'll hedge my bets and risk the 5% crit...

Barbarian: HEH HEH. YOU CHOOSE POORLY.

Hehe, the answer was supposed to be "Everything", but if there had to be problems, I'm actually kinda glad it turned out that way so at least it was entertaining instead of the RNG just generically taking a dump on the runs (that privilege was apparently reserved for XCOM, although there was that pretty hilarious "how do I shoot gun?" moment between that soldier and Sectoid).

Hey, if you're pretty much exclusively focusing on Avatar and not using a bow class, how exactly do you intend to get through the later levels and swarms of counter enemies?

Galeforce kill->unequip is a pretty wonderful thing. In the interim, a suffiently overleveled Robin with a forged Flux/Thunder/Wind can one-shot a lot of the problem enemies. Before that, she kinda has to rely on turtling with someone like Fred to trade away and convoy her weapons, or, in the early and mid-teens chapters, taking advantage of the terrain letting fliers troll the entire map by sitting out of reach. The newer strats involve me bringing Warrior!Morgan with a Lucina support, though, so there actually is a bow on my team. Galeforce is still generally enough to get by, though, since the first run with deaths didn't make use of him.

I'm going to be taking another look at C5. Interceptor's strat works well enough for if Robin is fairly weak, such that Fred won't get ganged up on by the melee. However, I've only really got one solid strat for if she's far more tanky than usual and it relies on the left side being low on Counter. One of the biggest issues is that everyone other than Robin, Fred and Vaike do not have the stats to take a hit from Luna+ axe guys (even with a Kellam support and while Stahl can get by with a Fred support, that kinda defeats the purpose...). This means that a decent mix of Counter and Luna+ in the enemy ranks (fairly likely) will prevent the scrubs from being able to decoy tank. Anyway, it's ridiculous that I'm losing runs because Robin is too strong, so I really need to find something.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Anyway, it's ridiculous that I'm losing runs because Robin is too strong, so I really need to find something.

You have to admit, out of ALL the things that could ruin a run the fact that being too good is among them is hilarious. Although to be fair this is exactly the kind of out of left field thing that you would think would happen after you get struck by 30 consecutive bolts of lightning in a field on a clear day but once it does happen it makes sense.

This is what happens when you git gud it seems.

Edited June 7, 2015 by AnUnculturedLittlePotato

[Czar_Yoshi]

If only skill at the game could produce a Robin with stats like that. The last run's was absolutely insane.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

All right, got those highlights done. First, me choosing poorly, then the RNG giving me false hope. Finally, XCOM as the back-up game produced produced a situation that would be funny in any SRPG (clearly, these are the finest warriors ever seen by both sides).

In other news, been working on a C5 strat where I go straight up the middle with Robin/Chrom, then kite stuff around the middle level, dodge tanking and healing on the Fort whenever possible. The opening movement is for Robin to run up and blick the upper Barbarian. Ricken can usually bring the Myrm within range of the forged Flux finishing him off in one hit (when he hits; if the Myrm doesn't have Pass, Sumia/Vaike gives me another try at wounding him from a safe position). The end result is that the Wyvs don't go for the others at all.

The problem is that that left-side group can still be pretty scary. If the top Barb doesn't have Counter (and preferably not Luna+), Fred/Lon'qu with the Orson's can possibly kill the Dark Mage (if it doesn't have Pavise+, although I guess crits can still happen) and wound the Barb. If that Barb has Counter, though, it's too risky. In that case, if the bottom Barb doesn't have Counter, Lon'qu/Fred has a chance to crit-blick or DS-blick him, depending on skills. Either way, a lucky enough Fred on level ups can double the Barbs.The main threats here are the Dark Mage, who can inherently allow the enemies to gang up on either Fred or Vaike, and the Myrm, who can just flat out double and murder Vaike. Sumia as a lead to counter the Myrm doesn't work because then the Barbs will smush her. Anyway, if I can take out the DM and the Myrm, then Vaike and Fred can tank the Barbs for a bit. They still need to eventually gank both of those Barbs, though, since a DM will be incoming starting on turn 5. However, so far, it's been a bit of a coin toss whether or not they have both the survivability and damage output to pull this off.

There's also a "spare" slot that I'm a bit undecided on. Of the characters I can pull of the bench, there's Virion, Sully, Stahl and Kellam (and Donnel, but lolDonnel). So far, I've been most successful with Virion, but aside from skewing my damage output toward the Aegis+ type (and, therefore having my chip shut down by), his poor Str is really catching up to him, even when the enemy doesn't have Aegis+. Javelin Sully is helpful, but then she has to share it with Sumia, which can really mess with having a proper formation.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Wait, by left side you mean the four dudes immediately to your left, right?

Since there's just four of them and you have everyone but Robin/Chrom on the table, there should be something that can be worked out there. Worst case it'll be a huge flowchart like Cht.3's opening.

I recall I've had luck against those enemies before by not making any advances on turn 1 and instead set myself up to hurt them on EP, then kill them all next turn. Their ranges don't have quite as bad of overlap as Cht.3 so it's easier to do a bit of damage to more of them without a really strong tank.

Looking at the Spd levels, getting a Fred x Sumia C will let him double the Barbs with just one Spd from levels instead of two. That could be useful for making prereqs more consistent. If that doesn't happen, Sumia with a Fred C support, +2 Spd over base, and either +2 HP/Def total over base or a Def tonic can survive and double a Barb that lacks Luna+/Counter. That would require at least two levels for doubling but since Fred's in the back, he could do some pass-around shenanigans like Int's Cht.3 strat with Robin.

One other possible preparation that could help is getting Fred to C Swd so he can borrow the KE (assuming Chrom doesn't have dibs). It's no Silver Lance but would have a Hit advantage and make him take 1-2 less damage from the Barbs, while being a lot stronger than the Iron Sword (which should be his at this point). A non-Counter Raimi would be easy to pick up some Wexp on, and he'll be getting a bit out of Cht.1/2 as well.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yeah, the left side. The scenarios I'm running into issues with is Counter on the Barbs. If they don't have Counter, then I generally run roughshod over them. On the other hand, if they all lack Counter, then I could use the strat where Robin goes on the offensive to the left instead (where she blicks the only Counter guy, if there's only one, or sits on the Woods and murders them all, if there's zero Counter).

The reason I have Lon'qu on Fred is because Fred his that +1 Spd over base threshold without needing the Sumia C. Pushing Fred to Swords C might be an interesting idea, although if I'm facing Counter, I don't know if I want him using the KE (I've left it on Lon'qu thus far). Using a Bronze Sword lets him lure and fight a non-Luna+ Counter Barb without risking dying. If I can get rid of the DM and Myrm, Fred can theoretically just win against the Barbs through attrition, although that still leaves the issue of the turn 5 DM.

Also, to clarify why the top Barb of that left group not having Counter (or Luna+) is such a boon is actually because of a good EP move I can make. If Fred rights directly to the right of the topmost Woods in that nearby clump, it puts him exactly in range of the Barb and DM and nothing else. Lon'qu lets Fred double the DM, putting on some serious hurt with that Orson's. If Lon'qu Dual Strikes at all with the Killing Edge, the DM should die. The Barb getting hurt or killed is just icing on the cake. Fred can then lure that Barb back while continuing to damage him. This leaves the Myrm and Barb where, even if both of those have Counter, since they're so isolated, they're now food for my team.

The lower Barb not having Counter and being damageable (since he's isolated on turn 1 EP) is an okay consolation prize, I guess, but his movement being hindered by the Woods actually messes things up for me, since it lets his buddies overlap him from turn 2 onward.

I can technically still do the turn 1 EP DM kill on its own if, and only if Robin's Barb is either dead or doesn't have Pass, plus the Myrm not having Pass, on top of Ricken landing the hit on the Myrm (if it has Counter; otherwise, meh). This lets Vaike unequip lure the Counter Barb who would attack Fred away, leaving Fred to duel the DM. That is a lot of ifs, though, so I can maybe consider this strat 1/4 of the time.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Okay, did a bit more research tonight and I was pleased to find out that in addition to pushing up the middle and kiting, Robin can go all wishy-washy and double back to help everyone else and there's a decent position to do it from too. Of course, it necessitates the left-side bottom Barb, and the dead middle Barb to not have Counter and the right-side Wyv to not have Aegis+ with Counter. The left-side Myrm needs to not have Luna+ with Counter (this assumes that the DM was killed by Fred too, although, there's some flex for Fred there if the Myrm doesn't have either of Luna+ or Counter), as Fred with the Orson's equipped will end up pulling the Myrm onto him (and while it's a small damage save, Robin faces a lot of heavy attacks with this strat). If this all works out, it ends up giving me very strong map control, since it takes care of the rest of the enemies that start nearby, including that pesky Wyv. Whether Robin stays bottom or goes back mid, it's easy to lure out the second Wyv, which then allows for kiting and tanking everything else and being able to sit in the bottom right makes the turn 4 Wyvs more controllable.

Plugging up the choke works great, but only if there's a non-Luna+ melee in the front and, of course, there is little-to-no Pass. Since Robin needs to be playing Wyv clean-up (with help from Vaike, who can unequip lure them into position if Robin's busy dealing with other enemies). If there is very limited Pass, what happens is that Fred only faces up to two attacks and with either 1 Def or 1 Res above base (doesn't matter which), he can survive two hits from a non-Luna+ Mage and a non-Luna+ Barb and do it indefinitely, since he can hang out at the bottom and get heals from both Maribelle and Lissa. If the Barb whiffs, Fred can get a heal, kill the DM/Mage (Lon'qu needs to Dual Strike for the former to die), then get trade unequipped and another heal, thereby allowing him to eliminate the 2-rangers.

Going up the left side is actually a really risky prospect. The way the turn 4 Wyvs approach, they'll be moving in to cut off the party and create a pincer with whatever might be chasing from the choke (which doesn't always have the luxury of holding out indefinitely). If the Wyv move right at all, their endpoints for the next turn are in a place where only a flier can lure them and Sumia sure isn't up to the task of tanking them. If they come straight down, it's easy enough for Robin to position to forged!Wind gib them, but it's extremely risky, because it places her within range of the mid-left Fort for turn 5. If that Myrm pops out with Counter, that forged!Wind is going to do a crap ton back to Robin and if any of the Wyvs hit or the Myrm has Luna+, Robin is probably going to die. However, leaving the Wyvs alive when everyone's so close (and two more will be incoming on turn 5), that it's just as hazardous to be in the bottom-left and try to play things safe. The lower-right is also no better if I don't have control of the mid-right. While I can swing left, then back right, then left again, reinforcement abilities and Wyv random movement make it a rather unreliable tactic. Basically, if I'm going for this, it's probably because 3/4+ of the map has Counter.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Aside from chapter 5 is there any other problematic chapters?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Not especially. P1 and C6 can be a bit obnoxious if they're really bent on it, but they don't even compare to C5 (and really, most of C6's issues come in if a previous chapter eats Fred, because lacking a secondary tank really hurts a lot there). I personally need to pay more attention to C7, though, just to make sure I stop making input mistakes. It's got two very straightforward strategies, so I really shouldn't be throwing the run there.

[Chiki]

(Tact 20 -> Dark Mage 10+ -> Sorc 10+ -> Dark Flier 15 -> Hero 15 -> Dark Knight)

I haven't read this topic, but is there a particular reason why you don't stay as a Sorcerer for the entire game for Nosferatu?

Edited June 12, 2015 by Chiki

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

It's more a smattering of reasons than any big one. Dark Flier probably has the strongest case, though. I'm reaching Sorc 15 near the end of P4, just before C10. Buyable Nosferatu is a long way off and Dark Flier just offers way more mobility, including general safety that would eclipse Nos, even if it was available this early. For C10, Dark Flier can hang out in a place that's unreachable by the majority of the enemy units and more often than not, a basic Wind one-shots the Wyvs at this point. C11 has no such safe area, but 8 Move flight can easily get around to take down what it needs to (since I need to keep them away from Olivia and the heal team). C12 offers another ridiculous safe spot in the water where the enemies just look like idiots. C13, if I didn't skip it, could be kited indefinitely because cliff-hopping plays havoc with the AI. With P12, I can really mess with the enemy ground units and, thanks to Elwind forging, completely neutralize the enemy airforce on my terms (a lot of the best spots for picking them off are above the water). C14 is another C10/12 situation where once the Pegs are dead, the enemy's screwed. C15's beach also allows for indefinite kiting, as well as having certain ocean tiles which are even completely unreachable. And if I wasn't wanting to move on to Hero, then C16 could easily be trolled in a similar way. Instead, we get Hero!Robin with Cavalier!Chrom in the back, netting a Def that makes every unit that doesn't have Luna+ or Counter completely harmless. Galeforce coming in mid-C12 also allows me to eliminate twice as many Counter enemies, or pick one off out of a group, then resposition to fight non-Counter (or kill, then unequip). On top of this, Morgan gets to inherit Galeforce, which makes training him significantly faster and safer, not to mention making him absurd later, because a Warrior with Galeforce is monstrous.

Anyway, as mentioned before, Hero with Cavalier backing is nigh-invulnerable. I guess changing back to a Sorc would have a similar effect, but if the enemies are largely harmless, then I see it as a good opportunity to pick up helpful skills for when their stats do actually catch up. Sol is all around a good survival skill and while it doesn't quite have the reliability of Nos, it's not locked to a single class. Axebreaker is actually the big safety pick-up here, though. Once enemy stats start to catch up again and I can't keep their Hit rates in the low teens or zero, I run the risk of getting taken down through sheer brute force. Those 20-30s from axe guys are pretty pathetic on their own, but their high mt, possibly coupled with Luna+, can be quite frightening (it's for a similar reason that, instead of reclassing to Dark Flier at Sorc 10, I actually changed it to 15 to snag Tomebreaker). Swordbreaker would actually be just as good, if not slightly better, but there's an awful lot of tomes hanging around Valm, and swapping to Wyvern Lord would make them decidedly not harmless.

Dark Knight as a final class was originally chosen for its mobility. 10 Move after Boots and no flier vulnerability, plus Galeforce would allow it to largely avoid Counter, not to mention push through for quick kills on C25 Aversa and Grima (the latter being pretty important for my original pre-Morgan deathless plan, since I needed to 1-turn it or Olivia and Basilio would die). There's also being a class that has access to swords, which, while no axes or lances, actually work out really well for Robin. The Levin Sword can get around Aegis(+) and Dark Knight!Robin is packing enough Mag to makes this viable (plus, there have been times where I've broken out regular swords to get around it and Robin's Str is no joke at this point, either). Once Morgan came into play, I'd actually given some thought to changing my class route to go back to Sorc for when enemy stats got scary again (because Nos + reliable Vengeance is powerful), but found I'd still rather have the strong kiting, ability to bypass Aegis(+) and C25 quick kill.

So yeah, smattering of reasons. In truth, I could probably hop back to Sorc after Dark Flier and, with some adjustments, get through just as easily as with my current route. It's just enough of a sidegrade that I saw no reason to reroute.

[Chiki]

I'm thinking of making a Lunatic+ guide for beginners, and my plan was Tactician => Mercenary => Level 5 Hero => Dark Mage > Sorcerer. Or maybe Tactician => Mercenary => Level 10 Hero => Level 15 Dark Flier => Sorcerer. How reliable would Sol + Nosferatu be in a resetless run? For the purposes of the guide it doesn't have to be resetless, but that would be a good benchmark.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Chiki

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Sol + Nos would likely be pretty solid. One would still have to be fairly careful because there's only so much Luna+ and Counter is can compensate against (since Sol is only going to be semi-reliable itself, it's quite likely that the player will continue to fall into an HP deficit). Played smartly, I can't see any reason why it wouldn't pull through. The most vulnerable point for those routes is probably going to be during Merc. Levins are scary, but not scary enough for one-shots most of the time and unlike Dark Mage, it won't have Anathema (granted, once the Bonus Box swords are usable, this may stop being an issue). The second route would probably be safer for the run overall, since Dark Flier should come in at a point where the route can take advantage of the teen chapter shenanigans that make the AI cry. However, unless Chrom is gets really good stats or passes through Sniper, there may be issues landing enough hits on Grima. The first route doesn't have that issue, but will need to step much more lightly in the early-mid chapters.

Are there any restrictions other than the minimized resets on this run? I've been making my replies on the assumption that, barring DLC, anything goes.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[Chiki]

It'd basically have the same restrictions as your run. It's meant to be a guide so it has to be accessible for everyone.

Tactician => Level 10 Dark Mage => Mercenary => Level 10 Hero => Level 15 Dark Flier => Sorcerer is also a possibility for Anathema.