The utility of Taguels

[Nym]

Ayra: Yes but you forgot about 2 things:

1. Manaketes also get the great exp gain

2. With the Half skill (thanks to Emperor Hardin for the info), Lethe and Lyre could be in cat form forever ( or almost?). You may say this is in the late game but this like any units : The more you train, the better skills you will have.

So with this is mind, I still think Taguel need an improvement and Laguez are by far, way more Superior.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Nym

[sirmola]

Again, don't confuse Panne and Yarne being good for Taguel being good. They have great growths and mods and that class does nothing but hold them back.

Another issue that the tanguel class has is the fact that it has no weapon ranks, so if you reclass panne or yarne (or panne!morgan if you did that for whatever odd reason), they have to start from scratch. That's right, the tangual class hurts its users even if they aren't in it.

Edited May 5, 2015 by sirmola

[Vascela]

The problem with Taguel is opportunity cost.

[Czar_Yoshi]

That's right, the tangual class hurts its users even if they aren't in it.

Early Beastkiller++ in Lunatic(+) say hi.

[Original Alear]

Yes, he has Wildheart, whoopdie doo, but I'd like to remove it while he can still be useful.

If I recall correctly, he joins at a time where you meet the Liberation Army for the first time, and I remember while yes, Volug could PWN every single unit on that map, there were too many Fire Mages for my liking.

IIRC Volug has the best movement in that chapter, which is good since Jill can die kinda fast, yielding a game over IIRC, and he can lessen the pressure on her.

I also seem to remember him being useful in the marsh chapter, but I can't elaborate on that because I don't even remember if that's a route or a timed chapter or what, and I don't remember if the side he's on gets reinforcements, and I also don't remember if they have any 2 range dudes (if they all only have 1 range than Nailah can simply clear them all out during enemy phase, ofc).

Also when you look at laguz growths, you should consider that a proc in a non hp/luck stat is effectively doubled while transformed (though I guess volug only gets a 1.5 multiplier for part 1)

Edited May 5, 2015 by Severlan

[~Silver]

All is forgiven.

See, I was being sarcastic there, but I wouldn't be surprised if you replied with sarcasm right back. I'm genuinely upset/slightly depressed that I'm judged and told to, "get better," because I don't like using someone who was an EXP sponge for awhile: compare to that my disliking of using Frederick during Lunatic runs.

I'm sticking by my statement when I say Volug isn't a good unit: he's useful, yes. So is Meg for when she absorbs the hits from Laguz on the chapter she joins in, but that doesn't make her good.

Edited May 5, 2015 by ~Silver

[Ownagepuffs]

Meg is doubled by 1-4 L6 Tigers and every single cat. You're only digging your own grave with that comparison.

I also seem to remember him being useful in the marsh chapter, but I can't elaborate on that because I don't even remember if that's a route or a timed chapter or what, and I don't remember if the side he's on gets reinforcements, and I also don't remember if they have any 2 range dudes (if they all only have 1 range than Nailah can simply clear them all out during enemy phase, ofc).

Yeah he can clear out the weak mages on Nailah's side of the swamp. With Resolve he can also double the mega bandits.

[Irysa]

I'm sticking by my statement when I say Volug isn't a good unit: he's useful, yes. So is Meg for when she absorbs the hits from Laguz on the chapter she joins in, but that doesn't make her good.

Volug kills stuff at base when he joins very easily, unlike Meg. Volug will keep keep killing stuff easily if you simply have him attack enemies because of his Strike level increase.

Volug's durability is pretty good when he joins, and he doesn't get 2RKO'd or w/e by mooks like Meg does. Additionally, he has an Earth Affinity, so if you build support by deploying and using him, his defensive parameters in avo help him maintain high effective durability.

He has a good start, then remains good if you used him during his good start, then becomes irrelevant at a time when there are other units to pick up the slack. Meg has a bad start, then is generally bad to mediocre if you use her during her weak start, and then becomes irrelevant at a time when there are other units to pick up the slack.

Don't compare Volug and Meg.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Irysa

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i wanna say once here again i love meg and train her up, but she's pretty awful and isn't even the best of her class.

also Volug's growths might be low, but when every point you get outside of HP and Luck is effectively doubled? that's pretty good.

sure laguz have their problems, but unless your Lyre you can find a use for all of them.

Edited May 6, 2015 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[Radiant Dragon]

RD has plenty of terrible Laguz, but Volug certainly is not one of them. Early on he can obliterate pretty much any non-Knight enemy, which is extremely useful when your only good offensive units are Sothe and maybe a cooperating Edward or Nolan (although you get more pretty quickly). Later in Part 1 he stops ORKOing everything if he doesn't have S strike, but since he only gets 1EXP per kill anyway this lets you spoon feed the Beorc you're training some easy kills. He's also an excellent Part 3 combatant now that he can utilize his fully shifted stats.

Also, I don't know why people say Volug falls off during Part 4. Yeah, he'll be a little behind compared to the GMs and your trained DB Beorc but given the fact that you need to form three parties and he should be getting close to SS Strike he's still good enough to help out with the Routs. Worst case, he can still run utility tasks due to his 9 move and lack of terrain penalties (except with the Swamp in 4-5).

I don't blame anyone for not taking him into the Tower, though. The Royal Laguz are just so much better than the non-Royals it's ridiculous.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Radiant Dragon

[Ayra]

Ayra: Yes but you forgot about 2 things:

1. Manaketes also get the great exp gain

2. With the Half skill (thanks to Emperor Hardin for the info), Lethe and Lyre could be in cat form forever ( or almost?). You may say this is in the late game but this like any units : The more you train, the better skills you will have.

So with this is mind, I still think Taguel need an improvement and Laguez are by far, way more Superior.

I didn't actually. The fact that Manaketes also have good exp gain doesn't remove the Taguel's advantage of good exp gain. I'm not arguing that Taguels are better than Manaketes (they aren't), or that Taguels are anywhere near good... Just that the Taguel has one advantage over most of human units, and that I feel that they are better than their closest counterpart the cat laguz.

Halfshift actually cuts your stats considerably. Normally, a Laguz gets double stats when transformed. When half-shifted, they get 1.5 instead. Even at 2x they were mediocre, at 1.5x they'd be completely useless.

[Nym]

Ayra: But at least they can stay longer transfromed ( I think? I feel kind of stupid by not knowing important informations XD).

[Czar_Yoshi]

The fact that Manaketes also have good exp gain doesn't remove the Taguel's advantage of good exp gain.

Neither of them gain exp faster than any normal unit.

What happens with Manakete and Taguel is that once you hit Lv.30 and reclass back into that class, your displayed Lv.1 is actually Lv.1, instead of the Lv.21 that a promoted unit would have (it's the same as if you reclassed a promoted unit to a base class). Since only half of their current level is added to their IL, this causes a 30->1 unit to be gaining exp at the rate of a normal Lv.15 unit, while a Lv.40 (promoted Lv.20) reclassing to a Lv.21 unit will begin gaining exp at the rate of a Lv.41 unit. So Manakete and Taguel get that earlier capped reclass, and their exp gain goes up as a result.

Before you do that, there is nothing special about their exp gain. Nowi gets a pile anyway because she comes around 10 levels below the enemy.

Manaketes work well lategame, so they're a desirable class to stay in for a long time. Taguel fall further behind as time passes due to not being able to upgrade to a decent weapon, so they don't make a good ending class- see Wyvern Panne and compare her to a lategame Taguel Panne. So the longer you stick around in Taguel to cash in on that bonus exp (bearing in mind that you won't even see any of it for a long time), the longer you delay being able to build up your weapon rank, which makes switching out more punishing because enemies get comparatively better weapons.

Leaving Taguel early to build up that rank and coming back? Sure. A reclass from a 20->20 Wyvern Lord to a Taguel will have you gaining exp at the rate of a Lv.21 unit again (actually Lv.26 because of the reclass to get out of Taguel, but whatever). Manakete Morgan does this all the time and it works nicely. But now that you've got a decent weapon, you're sacrificing it for that extra exp gain- and if you're a former Taguel your stats are likely already near their caps anyway due to how high your growths are. You may run out of room to grow in your important stats well before Lv.30, and will have to slog it out anyway to get back out.

tl;dr Taguel's exp bonus exists in such a way that it's practically useless.