Thousand Names Mafia Day 4

[Vhaltz]

Or you could have just read Eury's post? It clearly stated the three main happenings in D1 (Rapier getting shot, Via getting removed, Snike getting lynched) and analyzed the players involved, so you could've easily just read that, gotten a somewhat biased but decent understanding of what happened and worked from there.

[charlie_]

Shinori (4): Prims, Shin, Vhaltz, Excellen Browning
Excellen Browning (2): Executive kirsche, Eurykins
Lord Gaius (1): #HBC YOLOSWAG
Eurykins (1): Lord Gaius

Not Voting (1): Shinori

There are 23 hours and 15 minutes left in the phase.

Shinori is at L-2.

Edited June 14, 2015 by SB.

[Excellen Browning]

@Excellen: why don't you consider Shin's content to have many scumreads? his reads seem pretty clear to me. also the reason I don't suspect Vhaltz anymore is the Snike interactions

If you look at Shin's D1 posts, there's the one where he votes Vhaltz is one where he mentions some people, gives a slight fos on prims, but doesn't mention scumreads other than Vhaltz. His 4 following posts are short reactions to others and contain nothing of interest other than him saying he didn't actually mean to say he thought prims is scum. After that comes the post where he votes Snike, only slightly touching on Vhaltz. Next noteworthy post is where he comments on Bossanova's dayvig, once again refusing to give an actual opinion. What follows is his shot on Quote and him answering various questions relating to it.

If I look at Shin's D2 posts, he hints he is not Janus, once again makes a fos on prims, comments how he can't read me, then votes Shinori. His next post he says he'd lynch me, but once again states he has his doubts.

Looking at the votes and their explanation, his explanation on Vhaltz is very brief but ED1, he doesn't even mention why he thinks Snike is scummy when he votes him and doesn't afterwards, his explanation on the Shinori vote is short again. In my opinion also weak, considering he has like two posts to go off, and yet presents as an actual scum vote, not an activity vote.

TL;DR Shin really doesn't spend any significant time on providing scumreads and seems content to stay off side most of the time.

[Prims]

That's cool then. tbh I think Shin's D1 contribution levels were fine but now that I look at him again you're right in that today he's just sort of been "there". I'm not really sure why Shin keeps bringing up a gut read on me since it's not presented in a way he'd get anything out of - town!Shin could be trying to find out what about me bugs him, or ask me questions to help get a better handle on my alignment. Out of the Snike wagon, I'd lynch Shin over YOLO at this point.

@YOLO: you seem unengaged atm, what're your thoughts on how Shinori's treating the night results? also, are you scumreading Gaius' posts? I'm still finding Rose's D1 scummier but I haven't really like Gaius' content so now's probably your best chance to sell me on the wagon if Gaius isn't swaying you.

[Excellen Browning]

Tbh if you say you think shin's D1 content was fine when I just spent time proving to you his D1 was negligible contentwise, that's just bad.

If you still think his D1 content is fine, tell me why.

[Shinori]

Or you could have just read Eury's post? It clearly stated the three main happenings in D1 (Rapier getting shot, Via getting removed, Snike getting lynched) and analyzed the players involved, so you could've easily just read that, gotten a somewhat biased but decent understanding of what happened and worked from there.

Have you seen Eury's posts?

Also thank you Kirsche for that brief recap.

[Shinori]

Frankly I think excellen actually brings up good points on shin unless I'm missing something.

[Shinori]

Oh, I'm at L-2.

Huh.

Well I'd prefer to not claim so I'll try to talk about a few things here as this day is progressing.

But I'm gonna go ISO excellen and shin. As those are pretty much the only people who really have my attention at the moment.

[Eurykins]

asfjalsjdfl;asjdf SF eating my posts. Also, work sucks, especially weekend shifts. :/

@Eury: why are you talking about Bossa's shot now and not postgame? it's not relevant to who is scum. You seem to consider Paper's D1 scummy. do you find Gaius scummy and/or a good lynch target? what do you think about Rose's slot?

Why not speak of Bossa's shot? It was highly questionable, and I looked through as to why it even occurred to begin with (who/what/etc. prompted people to want to wagon Rapier to begin with, and to moreso cause him to get vigged), and the people in which the wagon/votes on him occurred could have easily held within them scum intent/interactions. (So I mildly disagree that it is completely irrelevant to scum-hunting, especially when I was highlighting/reading through the main events of D1.)

Concerning LG:

This one's a bit iffy for me, honestly. His tone initially strikes me as reasonable (as he and I were both kinda in the "Ohgod we subbed into a 20+ page game with lots of thread spammage and having to play the catch-up game" sort of thing), but there's a weird vibe with post #389. It's difficult to word, but I felt like a lot of the points/casing (though I do agree with some of the points, like wrt Yolo) had an odd, fluffed/round-about nature within his post? (Saying a whole lot, but yet not really saying much? IDK, English is hard.) And his following post doesn't strike me either way, honestly- just null vibes.

> I'm probs regarding his slot null, still minorly scummish due to PB's own actions in D1? (There hasn't been a huge overhaul/change since LG posted [he may not be directly posting in a super scummy way, but the prior player's actions still mar the player slot as a whole atm.], which is making me question what the original player behind him had said/done before his untimely poofing due to internet/IRL situations.)

So I guess, at the end of the day, I would be willing to consolidate on LG if no others? But I still prefer an Excellen lynch over that of LG/PB slot, but that was made obvious in my last post.

Rose's slot:

Uh. IDK. Really unmemorable, and re-checking the ISO, even moreso. Kinda seemed to lack initiative in terms of scum hunting imo, and also seemed to post mostly around Vhaltz/Yolo? Could be utilized later in terms of possible interactions with town/scum.

Shinori? Just as unmemorable.

However, on that same token, I don't quite fully understand the wagons/votes on him currently? Are they (the votes/case(s)) on him really just revolving around inactivity levels? 'Cause if that's the case, myself, him, LG, AND Yoloswag (in the sense that very few of his posts actually feel memorable to me) all fall under this category, and in that same token, are all liable for being seen/read as scum for low activity levels?

That, and though I do see where he's coming from (being persuaded and/or blocked [if he doesn't go with the persuasion = killing drive/will to participate]), I don't really agree with him not actively scum hunting.

BUT on the other hand, town!Shinori can and may be more frequently lazy moreso than scum!nori, so his laziness while posting/scum hunting in ITSELF is a null tell on his slot as a player.

TL;dr: Rose/Shinori slot is dead, activity/contribution wise. However, bad gameplay does NOT always indicate scumminess, and so I do not see myself labeling him as scum at this point in time.

Eurykins subs in(#302) and in the following 14 hours she doesn't make the effort to read the ISO on Snike or apparently do anything but skim the thread(#344). This can happen. She makes a case against me, which is freshly copied from Prims and Kevin/kirsche(#398). Also plays a slight defense for kirsche.

So in terms of who I'd vote; I'd currently place Vhaltz in town, YOLO, Gaius and prims are in mid, I'd shoot Kevin on principle, Shinori needs to stop making up excuses for inactivity, Shin reads like he's faking activity, Eurykins rehashes what other people have said and serves it as her own suspicions.

Uh. Okay, several things:

I subbed in on the evening before the lynch happened (and as I first posted, I had zero knowledge of when the day phase specifically ended), as well as having work in the morning and little time to post between then and AFTER work. I'm not going to dump a blind vote on someone, especially since I figured/hoped there'd be enough TOWNIES active and online and willing to support/push forth a lynch without the aid of someone who JUST entered into the game. So yes, I did skim the thread and try to catch up with reading, but I also didn't kill myself over trying to re-read and work to figure out the D1 lynch/casing revolving around Snike. With the time there was left, town shouldn't have to rely on ONE person subbing in late to commit to a lynch to have a lynch go through, small game or not.

I chose to note/analyze the situations that occurred during D1 on my own time, and with my own considerations. Whether I chose to agree with other people's points is one thing, but the rest of my thoughts are my own, thank you. Unless I stated, "I support/am sheeping X, Y, or Z" (I have sheeped things before, so it's not completely unreasonable to do so), what I post is my own content, as opposed to copy/pasting from someone else.

I also don't see how I play "a slight defense" for Kirsche? Like, I don't believe I refute any points/notions against him (aside from saying that I personally do NOT scum read his slot atm), so I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding your statement wrt Kirsche, or if you're misrepping/misunderstanding something I said about him in my post(s)?

So I'm not sure what exactly you're nitpicking at, Excellen. I certainly didn't take about 2-3 hours on that post (alone) re-reading through everything/everyone's posts and main events in D1 to simply copy/paste someone else's post (you make it sound like I put little to no effort into my post [shamelessly sheeping while not saying much out of my own PoV/thoughts/cases/etc.], which is a mildly scummy-esque comment towards my posting, I feel. I could be reading into your comments a bit too deep, but I cannot be sure.)

[Prims]

Tbh if you say you think shin's D1 content was fine when I just spent time proving to you his D1 was negligible contentwise, that's just bad.

If you still think his D1 content is fine, tell me why.

It was on D1 and I don't really expect people to have a lot of scumreads on D1, since D1 is D1. Vhaltz most of spent D1 with only one big scumread, nobody's upset with him because of that.

You're right in that he talks a lot without talking much about or focusing on his reads, but I'd file that under "not doing very much while around" instead. Which isn't to say I don't find it scummy (it is, Shin your approach to this game is looking pretty passive, pls mafiahunt harder).

what do you want from me regarding Shin though. I suspect the guy although not as much as the day's main targets. Is this response a frustration thing?

@Shinori: same thing I said to Snike applies to you. If you're going to softclaim you have something interesting and you're the #1 lynch target, why are you not claiming it outright?

@MASSIVE EURY CUT OH GOD: my reason for suspecting Rose isn't based on activity levels if you read my D2 opener! How are you reading Shin? What do you think about Vhaltz and Gaius' defenses of Excellen?

[Prims]

oh also @Shinori I'M NOT TELLING YOU TO CLAIM I'm just asking why you did that

[Prims]

I'm starting to feel burnt out on this game; this day's going to get stale if we just turn it into "wait for Shinori".

##Unvote

I think Rose's D1 is scummy, but Shinori's reactions have been the kinda Shinori posts I can see coming from either alignment and my vote isn't doing anything until he posts content (if he uses less votes as an excuse not to read the game he gets fukken turboed - I'm not scared to switch my vote back to him for phase end).

##Vote: Shin

He hasn't provided much today and his big vote is on Shinori with no other real notable reads. I don't like his #403 - Shin, you're OK with an Excellen lynch, does that mean you actually support it? What switched you from not being convinced Excellen was just playing to his own agenda in your D2 opener? I'd appreciate a reads list from you, towniest to scummiest, because I can't tell what you think a possible scumteam would actually be when your second largest scumread is somebody you're just "OK" with lynching.

[Prims]

other than that I'm cool lynching Gaius but waiting on YOLO to get back to me about that. I just don't feel any passion about the lynch, but that might be because I feel that way about this game in general right now. Shin needs more attention as is.

[Shinori]

I'm just saying I don't want to claim as I don't feel I should have to.

I don't think I'll be lynched and I see no reason to claim thus why I'm stating I really don't want to even though I'm at L-2.

[Prims]

OK cool. You should read the thread. I'll give you some prompts, what are your thoughts on the recent cases on Shin? Vhaltz's big Snike vote and the ensuing interactions are here if you want a critical point of D1 to consider.

[Shinori]

Cases on shin honestly I've felt good about.

Like I stated earlier I thought excellen had a lot of good points against shin and I felt his vote swap on to me was kind of weird. It was literally a vote saying "I want to lynch this slot solely because it's inactive and there is nothing being gained from it." Which honestly is REALLY bad and frankly scummy from my point of view. I'm sure shin has scum reads that aren't just "Inactives". And if his vote on me is just a prod vote it doesn't sound like one and he fully implies he wants to lynch me because I'm inactive. Also most people should know generally prod votes don't do shit to make me post.

I'll read vhaltz's post shortly.

[Eurykins]

@MASSIVE EURY CUT OH GOD: my reason for suspecting Rose isn't based on activity levels if you read my D2 opener! How are you reading Shin? What do you think about Vhaltz and Gaius' defenses of Excellen?

Oh, I might've missed that.

It's just, from what I was reading in the thread as of late, most of the votes on Shinori was based on, "Him not saying/doing much", which is kind of a meh reason at best for casing someone as scummy or not. (So consider the questioning/notions towards the MAJORITY of the cases on Shinori/Rose as based/revolving around activity levels, with some exceptions [which, in this case, I did sorta miss? Lol gg me]).

Shin, at least early on (AKA. For most of D1), I was okay with. I felt he played well around Via and her role/death, I felt like his Snike vote was OK (not necessarily the best, but it didn't feel in itself terrible), and I didn't see his early gameplay of self-voting and the such to scream scum gameplay either.

However, I am mildly wary of the fact that he seems so willing to clear Vhaltz (or otherwise insist that he CANNOT have been scumbuddies with Snike), as there is no real hard/clear evidence of him being cleared come Day 2. Likewise, the vote on Shinori was a very easy one, so there's not much to be impressed by that either. It's hard to tell whether he wants to play the game with less effort, or if he's opting to coast/kinda float under the radar and not do much this day phase (the possibility of the latter is what's moreso dropping negative vibes on this slot for me).

So my overall view on his slot has declined a bit since D1, and I do find that a few points/cases on him hold some merit; he doesn't hold the TOP priority slot for me personally, but unless his activity/content improves with this day phase, having him as an option for consolidation (if need be) is not out of the picture.

[Prims]

Deadline is tomorrow. We need to actually get some wagons together aside from the mass of prod votes.

@Excellen, @Shinori: You guys should get on Shin if you want that lynch still. Otherwise I'm fine hopping back to Shinori for consolidation.

Even though he wasn't in my initial lynch pool, as I re-read the more and more strongly I feel about scum!Shin. Excellen has brought up good points on his activity and his content today hasn't provided much in terms of reads or getting them. I'm still very skeptical about his D1 turn-around from Vhaltz to Snike as well - he's easily convinced to move to Snike, then just sits on the vote and doesn't either engage Snike or try to convince other voters. Looks like a classic distancing and/or bus attempt. Comments like this don't have a big bearing on whether Snike gets lynched, they only cement Shin as on the wagon. Also interesting: Snike townreads Shin, but while he directly addresses Vhaltz and kirsche, he doesn't really try to persuade Shin to switch off. Pretty odd if this is Snike trying to buddy town!Shin, makes sense if Shin is bussing Snike though!

@Vhaltz: Consolidate pls. Do you still prefer Gaius to Shinori? That wagon's not gonna happen unless you switch.

@Eurykins: Waiting for your thoughts on Excellen's content today.

@Gaius: I've seen you in the thread. Nobody seems to consider Eury a priority, would you consolidate on Shin?

I've actually liked Excellen's D2 posts and am back to not preferring that lynch. I don't like how kirsche has been using the tunnel as an excuse to not really play the game, even though kirsche is likely town due to his D1 wagon placement.

[ZoesMad]

@Prims making a post, but yes I am willing to consolidate on Shin, since people aren't interested in YOLO it looks like and Eury's content has been enough for me to not want to lynch her today.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

give me 12 hours

postin this in hopes of not waking up to some wildass wagon outta left field

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

wildass wagon = any1 not paper/gaius or rose/shinori

[Shinori]

##Vote: Shin

Yeah I'm fine with this, I don't like his ISO and his vote on me is bad. Even with his role I'd find it weird that town has a day vig and an ITP removal. So yeah I feel this is a good lynch. To go a long with this I heavily dislike his snike vote in the last phase. Maybe it's partially gut but it's screaming to me at the moment and I don't like it.

Luckily I've got a few town reads also! Outside of that I don't have a lot to say just yet. I plan on rereading at least part of the thread over the night phase so that I can be mildly caught up. It will most likely be a skim but yeah.

[Excellen Browning]

Cases on shin honestly I've felt good about.

Like I stated earlier I thought excellen had a lot of good points against shin and I felt his vote swap on to me was kind of weird. It was literally a vote saying "I want to lynch this slot solely because it's inactive and there is nothing being gained from it." Which honestly is REALLY bad and frankly scummy from my point of view. I'm sure shin has scum reads that aren't just "Inactives". And if his vote on me is just a prod vote it doesn't sound like one and he fully implies he wants to lynch me because I'm inactive. Also most people should know generally prod votes don't do shit to make me post.

I'll read vhaltz's post shortly.

I thought I had made it abundantly clear my vote for you was a prod vote. Considering I said just that in my post voting for you

But whatever, it's probably time to consolidate the wagons.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shin

[Shinori]

I was talking about shin's vote.

[ZoesMad]

Sorry for delays on this post.

@Shinori: Who are your stronger town reads at the moment? Even having just skimmed part of the game I think it'd be good for you to say them before phase end.

@Kirsche: You should like take the tunnel goggles off and maybe inform the rest of us about your reads list and why you chose them. I get you were the pivotal figure in leading the Snike lynch and would be the most unlikely to bus, but still you gotta give us something other than "lol excellen is scum."

@Eury: Yes it was a prod vote and I like your thought process and see your motivation to scumhunting. You're still kind of null to me since like you found my old slot's player PB off settling, I saw the same with Mancer.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shin

Consolidation time it is. Already said I didn't like the waffling on the Snike wagon, and stuff that Excellen brought up about his unwillingness to make tangible opinions is good, sheeps ahoy. I don't think people want to vote Yolo today either so there's that. He should really say something besides Paperblade "white-knighting" Vhaltz is scummy and that Rose/Shinori is inactive scum.

@Yolo: What do you think about the Shin wagon that you seem to not agree with? Are you willing to consolidate on it?