Duncan Idaho Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) I just finished for the first time FE4 and I found the last gauntlet of chapters to be brutal, filled with cheap tricks or well cheap for my army given that they didn't wound up getting much in the way of resistance growth and never liked to dodge. Was it bad luck for me? I am leaving the images of my units by end game so I can get some opinions on how good or bad their stats are, also keep in mind I followed all the pairings here (Dew x Aira and Azel Tiltyu but otherwise I followed the 1st suggestions) Maybe for my next run I should get Shanan and Altena killed and then use the glitch to sell the Balmung and Gae Bolg so Larcei and Leaf use the respective weapon. As for why no Folsety, I forgot to ge the weapon and was more or less playing blind, beyond knowing who could be recruited the guides I found were notoriously innacurate. Also why the resistence values are so low? The final chapters feature tons of dark mages with sleep staves that have unlimited uses (a bit unfair that bit) and then there is Julius lover, her Tome makes mincemeat off my army and to boot she has insane evasion, I only managed to kill her by a combination of luck and Seliph being able to damage her so Ares is able to land the final hit. It came as a real nasty surprise that my army that had managed to handle itself very well until that point was being killed in two moves or less. Edited June 18, 2015 by Duncan Idaho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zasplach Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 First off, your Serlis has two defense rings, only one of them is giving him a bonus. Secondly, you are missing two of the holy weapons, Ichivial and Holstey, the bow is only all right, but Holstey makes the second half of generation two a ton easier, especially if Ced is the one using it, or Arthur for that matter. None-the-less, it is a great enemy phase weapon. Just glancing over your characters stats, they look fine, stats really aren't all that important as long as they aren't wretched. The second half of the game is all about abusing your overpowered characters with super strong holy weapons, and then you dance your four best fighters and continue to plunge onward. I don't even see Aless on your list of characters, he is a top five character in gen 2. Your rings don't look super well optimized, I almost always have leg and knight ring on Leen by the end of gen 2, and stat rings in Gen 2 should be more used to push past your low stat caps and the barrier rings should go on characters with resistance between 12-15 to ensure that more characters have resistance high enough to not be put to sleep by the dark mages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Sounds like you made a lot of the same mistakes I did on my first playthrough of FE4. Just keep at it. Once Julia gets Naga the rest of the game (read: at most 13 enemies) is a cakewalk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Maybe there is actually something wrong with the game. Seliph and Finn have both 80 HP here and I think Faval is literally the only player character who can reach that cap. And Finn can impossible have gained 48 HP in 29 levels since he has a HP growth lower then 100%. Is this game modified in some way? Maybe it has some difficulty hack. Edited June 18, 2015 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 The Sleep staff users can't touch Seliph or Ares, so I usually have those two handle the first castle alone. Ishtar is pretty tough to kill without Holsety or a 100-kill Hero Sword. She's vulnerable to Silence/Sleep if you have a staff user with 28 magic and a ring, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momogeek2141 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 First, only Holyn!Lakche or Scathach can use Balmung, you need major blood to use a holy weapon (so Altenna is the sole user of Gae Bolg.) Next, I'd pay a lot more attention to conversations on the map, as you could have gotten Ichival that way and most likely Holsety as well if you read the text carefully. Not many gen 2 characters have a good res growth besides a child of Claud and Serlis, and yours seem pretty absurd anyways. Maybe there is actually something wrong with the game. Seliph and Finn have both 80 HP here and I think Faval is literally the only player character who can reach that cap. And Finn can impossible have gained 48 HP in 29 levels since he has a HP growth lower then 100%. Is this game modified in some way? Maybe it has some difficulty hack.I second this theory because of the res values. They seem way too high, especially if you used the pairings in the link given. I know PEMN, but generally my units have got to be really lucky to pass 10 res! (Also wtf 18 magic Leaf.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Idaho Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) I did hack my 1st gen stats so i could finish it faster (it was my 2nd time playing gen 1. I only finished it once and that was years ago and I really wanted to try gen 2 as my last attempt was a trainwreck. What I did was use some action replay codes to give gen 1 max stats+bonus stats. So the stats of the parents also play a role with the kids?) So I missed two weapons thats annoying. For the user who said that about the sleep staff the ai didnt bother to target seliph but instead they chose to target everybody else which was really annoying. Ill take notes about ring distribution. I Am sure I missed a few. I do wish Altena had a better skill growth, tbh her with the gae bolg was pretty useless for me, foes either dodged or her damage dealt wasnt too great. I did finish the game, is just that I found the last chapter last segment a curveball. Edited June 18, 2015 by Duncan Idaho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) I did hack my 1st gen stats so i could finish it faster (it was my 2nd time playing gen 1. I only finished it once and that was years ago and I really wanted to try gen 2 as my last attempt was a trainwreck. What I did was use some action replay codes to give gen 1 max stats+bonus stats. So the stats of the parents also play a role with the kids?) Yes, they do. So that explains that. Celice HP still seems pretty high to me but considering that Sigurd and Diadora normally can't get anywhere near 80 HP, it's probably possible. Edited June 18, 2015 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momogeek2141 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I did hack my 1st gen stats so i could finish it faster (it was my 2nd time playing gen 1. I only finished it once and that was years ago and I really wanted to try gen 2 as my last attempt was a trainwreck. What I did was use some action replay codes to give gen 1 max stats+bonus stats. So the stats of the parents also play a role with the kids?) So I missed two weapons thats annoying. For the user who said that about the sleep staff the ai didnt bother to target seliph but instead they chose to target everybody else which was really annoying. Ill take notes about ring distribution. I Am sure I missed a few. I do wish Altena had a better skill growth, tbh her with the gae bolg was pretty useless for me, foes either dodged or her damage dealt wasnt too great. I did finish the game, is just that I found the last chapter last segment a curveball. I'd HIGHLY recommend paying attention to the text. In Ch 1, Deirdre tells Sigurd that she can silence Sandima because her magic is higher than his res. That's how it works, status staffs are guaranteed to hit, but you can only target people if the user's magic is higher than the enemy's resistance. That's why they don't bother to target Serlis, and go for everybody else instead. Fee can help take care of them (normal Fee generally has enough resistance with a barrier ring to withstand it). You can also deal with Ishtar by having a 28+ mag Sety with a magic ring silence her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Idaho Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) I'd HIGHLY recommend paying attention to the text. In Ch 1, Deirdre tells Sigurd that she can silence Sandima because her magic is higher than his res. That's how it works, status staffs are guaranteed to hit, but you can only target people if the user's magic is higher than the enemy's resistance. That's why they don't bother to target Serlis, and go for everybody else instead. Fee can help take care of them (normal Fee generally has enough resistance with a barrier ring to withstand it). You can also deal with Ishtar by having a 28+ mag Sety with a magic ring silence her. I am aware that the staff ACC is calculated like that. I just couldnt do it given my latest saves had me face to face with Ishtar and going back to get the silence staff+the ring while I had left Ced to guard my main base (because Altena's brother? lover? whatever I had to reload and lose a victory against her due to his squad massacring Tornado/Ced so I had to reload, warp Altena to the home castle, get her in position and turn him into an NPC, sending Nana all the way back was too expensive considering her entire squad was breathing down my neck and there were those 80 EVA pegasus knights with the Earth/Runeswords. First off, your Serlis has two defense rings, only one of them is giving him a bonus. Secondly, you are missing two of the holy weapons, Ichivial and Holstey, the bow is only all right, but Holstey makes the second half of generation two a ton easier, especially if Ced is the one using it, or Arthur for that matter. None-the-less, it is a great enemy phase weapon. Your rings don't look super well optimized, I almost always have leg and knight ring on Leen by the end of gen 2, and stat rings in Gen 2 should be more used to push past your low stat caps and the barrier rings should go on characters with resistance between 12-15 to ensure that more characters have resistance high enough to not be put to sleep by the dark mages. All right I'll consider these suggestions. Yes, they do. So that explains that. Celice HP still seems pretty high to me but considering that Sigurd and Diadora normally can't get anywhere near 80 HP, it's probably possible. Huh you learn something new every day. I wasn't expecting that. Edited June 18, 2015 by Duncan Idaho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Idaho Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) · Hidden by Balcerzak, June 19, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by Balcerzak, June 19, 2015 - No reason given Mods erase this post please. Edited June 18, 2015 by Duncan Idaho Link to comment
X-Naut Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 How the hell do so many characters have capped Res and why is Altenna's Spd so low? >hacked Yeah that explains it. Also, Seliph can reach 80 HP cap, but it requires him to proc +2 HP the majority of his level-ups. Assuming he starts with 28 HP, he needs the +2 on 23/29 of his levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Idaho Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 How the hell do so many characters have capped Res and why is Altenna's Spd so low? >hacked Yeah that explains it. Also, Seliph can reach 80 HP cap, but it requires him to proc +2 HP the majority of his level-ups. Assuming he starts with 28 HP, he needs the +2 on 23/29 of his levels. I am not ashamed at all to admit it. I did once perform a legit FE4 run, but it was like in 2012. Also I didn't hack 2nd gen at all. Altena never gained much speed for me, always got doubled in the arena, so what I did was sell a brave spear and had her buy it to alleviate somewhat that problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I think it the hacking screwed with your characters' stats more than you think. Altenna's bases should be higher than that. According to the main site, she should start with 23 strength and 19 speed for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Idaho Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 I think it the hacking screwed with your characters' stats more than you think. Altenna's bases should be higher than that. According to the main site, she should start with 23 strength and 19 speed for example. hmm, is that so? I'll have to check this run what happens with Cuan and Ethlin, they had theiir stats maxed so Althena should've been better. That or it all went to leif. I did forgot to pick the Gae Bolg before Cuan vanished before the desert chapter (gen 1) so that could also be, or it could be that cuan and ethlin massacred their way trough the wyvern riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Hahaha what the fuck is up with Altenna's speed. 13 at level 28? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The way base stats are calculated includes a mod function, so it's possible if the parent's stats are very high, the stat bonus they give will wrap around to 0. But I think it shouldn't happen to Altenna unless you hack Cuan or Ethlin's stats to be higher than their caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Idaho Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) The way base stats are calculated includes a mod function, so it's possible if the parent's stats are very high, the stat bonus they give will wrap around to 0. But I think it shouldn't happen to Altenna unless you hack Cuan or Ethlin's stats to be higher than their caps.My current cheat file has that for every character on every stat sans move its changed to 30 and there is the bonus stat code that adds a +5 to everything until you equip a ring and then said stat will lose its +5. Thats is interesting none the less and would explain why she was such a bad character in my previous run. However can any one check if the results of 80/30/30/30/30/30/30/30 of cusn and ethlin stats can generate a number larger than 255? Toying with some coded fe4 wont accept for some caded anything beyond 255 and wil, roll back the nu ber to 0. (I found about this whe trying to hack the silver sword kill count out of curiosity) Edited June 19, 2015 by Duncan Idaho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Starwind Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I recall them being kinda hard my first but I also had crap pairings and didn't get two holy items haha. I'm sure your next run you'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Idaho Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) I recall them being kinda hard my first but I also had crap pairings and didn't get two holy items haha. I'm sure your next run you'll be fine. Probably as I don't plan to alter any pairings, But I will pay more attention. I did miss Lex Brave axe on purpose as I don't have anyone to inherit it and I've never used lex beyond the prologue (rushing him to the farthest village to kill the bandit and save it) Hahaha what the fuck is up with Altenna's speed. 13 at level 28? As @Baldrick suggested it could be that the 80HP+30/STR/MAG/SKL/SPE/LCK/DEF/M.DEF. Caused the game to turn the inheritance to 0. Altho I wonder why Altena was the only one affected? Given that my code alters all units (even those I won't pair up) oh btw @Baldrick the game has hard caps unlike FE6, 7 and 8, it won't let any stat by raised beyond 30 sans for the HP. I have no MOV codes so I cannot check that. Edited June 19, 2015 by Duncan Idaho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 @Duncan; ah, that explains it. Cuan's class strength cap is 27, and Ethlin's is 18. Changing their strength stat to be higher will mess with Altenna's base strength stat. The same thing likely happened with her speed. Your other characters probably weren't affected because they don't have a high level. In simple terms, for each stat the game adds the parents' stat bonus (based on their parent's stats) to their child's average stat bonus (i.e. their level - 1 multiplied by their growth rate). It can't be more than 15, otherwise their base will be higher than their class caps. So if the value is more than 15, it subtracts 15 from the value until it gets a number less than 15. If you're interested in the technical details: [spoiler=I like to ramble] Altenna's inheritance bonus is [( { [(Cuan's stat addition x 2) + Ethlin's stat addition / 10 }+ Altenna’s stat addition) mod 15] Cuan's class strength base is 12. If his strength is 30, his stat addition is 30 - 12 = 18 Ethlin's class strength case is 3. If her strength is 30, her stat addition is 30 - 3 = 27 Altenna is level 17, and has a 65% strength growth. Her stat addition is (17-1)*0.65 = 10.4 So her inheritance bonus is ((18 * 2 + 27) / 10) + 10.4 mod 15 6.3 + 10.4 mod 15 16.7 mod 15 1.7 Even if you never use Cuan and Ethlin, Altenna will get a strength bonus of 10, but here she's getting only 1. So you definitely had a below-par Altenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Idaho Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) @Duncan; ah, that explains it. Cuan's class strength cap is 27, and Ethlin's is 18. Changing their strength stat to be higher will mess with Altenna's base strength stat. The same thing likely happened with her speed. Your other characters probably weren't affected because they don't have a high level. In simple terms, for each stat the game adds the parents' stat bonus (based on their parent's stats) to their child's average stat bonus (i.e. their level - 1 multiplied by their growth rate). It can't be more than 15, otherwise their base will be higher than their class caps. So if the value is more than 15, it subtracts 15 from the value until it gets a number less than 15. If you're interested in the technical details: [spoiler=I like to ramble] Altenna's inheritance bonus is [( { [(Cuan's stat addition x 2) + Ethlin's stat addition / 10 }+ Altenna’s stat addition) mod 15] Cuan's class strength base is 12. If his strength is 30, his stat addition is 30 - 12 = 18 Ethlin's class strength case is 3. If her strength is 30, her stat addition is 30 - 3 = 27 Altenna is level 17, and has a 65% strength growth. Her stat addition is (17-1)*0.65 = 10.4 So her inheritance bonus is ((18 * 2 + 27) / 10) + 10.4 mod 15 6.3 + 10.4 mod 15 16.7 mod 15 1.7 Even if you never use Cuan and Ethlin, Altenna will get a strength bonus of 10, but here she's getting only 1. So you definitely had a below-par Altenna. Funnily enough everybody got screwed, Seliph started with 11 STR last time, this time he started with 14, three points higher, and many other characters too, only Julia in so far is a bit sub par (I got her Nosferatu but man, 7 DEF and that MOV, I am going to be giving her the leg and shield rings for a bit) The brother of Patty also started with much higher stats. I'll see if Altena got screwed. Also Julias stats are determined by Deidere+Alvis, right? And much to my charging, pawn stores do not move between generations, so the truckload of rings were lost, I do wonder if storage is shared between father and child.. Edited June 20, 2015 by Duncan Idaho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momogeek2141 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Julia's bases are the same regardless of how much you trained Deirdre. It's supposed to be "unknown" that she's Deirdre's daughter until endgame but it's obvious that she is. Julia's defense problem is naught because she can regain the hp through nosferatu, especially with her high mag. Leg ring should probably go on dancer along with knight ring. You'll regain the rings, as every ring that isn't inherited is dropped by a certain boss in gen 2 (except the pursuit ring I believe.) The same is for weapons (except the defense sword.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Idaho Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) Julia's bases are the same regardless of how much you trained Deirdre. It's supposed to be "unknown" that she's Deirdre's daughter until endgame but it's obvious that she is. Julia's defense problem is naught because she can regain the hp through nosferatu, especially with her high mag. Leg ring should probably go on dancer along with knight ring. You'll regain the rings, as every ring that isn't inherited is dropped by a certain boss in gen 2 (except the pursuit ring I believe.) The same is for weapons (except the defense sword.) Maybe it is not a problem outside the arena, but in it? the chapter I am in has a Swordsmaster with a silver sword, before Julia can launch an attack he already OHKO'es her, it is also the last opponent, and while I do not need the cash, it is annoying to not be able to get that star. Ill put the ring on Claude's & Sylvia's daugther, I have it on fee and it helps to reach some villages before the bandits can wreck too much havock. And i'd wish the Earth Sword had more than 10 uses, it would make so much easier training Lief and Nana. Oh and I found the arena kills do not add up to the weapon kills, cute, well at least Finn will be getting rid soon of the brave spear and passing it down to Leif (I managed to get nearly a 100 kills on it, Ayra's Hero sword now also has 100 kill on it and its amazing how easier the game and boss killing is, speciall when Lana silenced the previous chapter 3 mage bosses) Also I read on tvtropes that apparently some comunities of FE dislike Tiny, why? I slapped on her a wind tome and she started wiping enemies left and right. I am sure that for my next run I'll be trying to make Azel get a 100 kills on a couple of wind books (unless the kill mechanics only apply to weapons and not tomes) This reminds me, is there any way to stop the NPC's of Lachesis to kill Fury? I had to pull some crazy stunts to recruit her this time. Edited June 20, 2015 by Duncan Idaho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momogeek2141 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Yeah, Julia isn't fantastic in the arena. Is that silver swordmaster on ch 8? That guy is pain in the ass for most of my units, not just her. People don't like Tinny because she is somewhat hard to train (I love her, she kills like nobody's business, especially with Elwind.) Kill mechanics work with everything, so you can get a 100 kill Balmung if you're really up to it. As for Lachesis's NPC's, keep Lach herself away from Evans and you should be fine. Heck, the only person who should be at Evans is Levin to recruit her once they arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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