Jave Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 That's actually my entire point. They could have just as easily been skins, so why waste a slot for them? The number of slots in a fighting game should represent the number of unique fighting styles. Any slot that contains a style that already exists is pointless, and therefore a waste of a slot. Lucina and Doc have overall differences from their originals, but Dark Pit is truly a waste of a slot. I take you haven't played many fighting games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zera Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Would more people play as Lucina and Dr. Mario if they were just skins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) taking away content would not make the game better Edited July 5, 2015 by Comet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingddd Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 taking away content would not make the game better this. A couple of Wario's skins were removed in Smash 4 and some people were pretty devastated by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zera Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I'm more devastated by the removal of Wario's shoulder tackle. Does his moveset have ANY moves from the Wario Land Series now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingddd Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I'm more devastated by the removal of Wario's shoulder tackle. Does his moveset have ANY moves from the Wario Land Series now? I'm more devastated by the removal of wector man http://webmshare.com/play/DGrmG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentacotus Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 There is no such thing as "wasting slots" because the amount of fighters isn't limited. The only thing that can go to waste is developement time, that could've been used to create a fighter other than the 100th Mario character or Pokemon! (Good thing there's DLC.) Clones don't waste time, though. They merely need some slight alterations to their attacks and balancing, which doesn't take much time. Sakurai himself said that. Pretty much this. The only thing I'd say is that I wish they made Lucina a bit more different than Marth aside from the non tipper. I mean in my mind Dark Pit is different enough from Pit to warrant him being an extra character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Huh. So that buff did make a difference...especially Jab. Jab is insane, ee-mo. It has range and it combos to a bunch of things, including F-Smash at times (Marf's TIPPER, including!). And their Up-B's actually kill, as they should. Did really well with the duo, yesterday. I'm actually considering them as tough secondaries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randoman Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Since this is a Marth and Lucina thread, I suppose it's okay if I post this here. Anyways, I was training up my Marth amiibo with my own Marth and landed a lot of tipper aerials (including down aerial, which I meteor smashed him with at least 6-7 times) and forward smashes on him, which he picked up. At level 41, my Marth amiibo was actually able to beat me in 1-on-1's without items and 3 stocks on neutral stages. Around level 48 I decided to use Lucina against him... ...and I was so surprised at how much worse I did with Lucina than Marth. Just her slight reduction in sword range compared to Marth made fighting my Marth amiibo much harder since he was outranging me and he was able to hit me first (yeah, I know that anyone who outranges another character is harder to face, but I'm also trying to highlight how much you can feel the Lucina's range reduction after practicing with Marth's tippers for so long). Also, her consistant damage with her sword meant nothing compared to being able to pull off decisive, KOing tipper smashes and edgeguard aerial tippers (that would ensure the opponent wouldn't recover successfully) with Marth. ...yeah, I just wanted to talk about my Marth and Lucina experiences from training up my Marth amiibo yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Just her slight reduction in sword range compared to Marth made fighting my Marth amiibo much harder since he was outranging me and he was able to hit me first (yeah, I know that anyone who outranges another character is harder to face, but I'm also trying to highlight how much you can feel the Lucina's range reduction after practicing with Marth's tippers for so long). nearly certain that marth doesn't outrange lucina; when people say "they removed the tipper hitboxes" what they mean is that those hitboxes no longer do extra damage / knockback, not that they've been removed entirely ^slightly off, see below: marth outranges lucina by literally pixels, due to being slightly taller than her; it will almost never be noticeable it's likely your amiibo is simply better at spacing than you give it credit for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randoman Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 The range difference is definitely a lot more than pixels. Besides the picture I posted in the 3rd post of this thread, I'll also post the comparison pics I posted on Miiverse: As we can see here, Marth's up tilt touches the platform while Lucina misses it by a noticeable margin. The shortened range may not be noticeable to most players, but for people who've practiced a lot with Marth's tippers, it is noticeable and significant since even without the tipper giving much stronger knockback and damage, a lot of attacks that skilled Marth mains will use with Lucina will come short and miss. And now we'll move on to a different example and probably the most important one for both Marth and Lucina mains, their foward smash: This is a picture of both Marth and Lucina using their forward smash on Big Battlefield, after dodge rolling fully to the right of the middle platforms. At first, you may think that Marth's forward smash range is barely longer, and even I'll admit it looks only a few pixels bigger, but... With the red line drawn for comparison, you can see how much of a difference and range gap there is between Marth and Lucina's smashes. It's really noticeable highlighted like that and it really shows that Lucina's range is shorter by a significant amount. Since you mentioned my amiibo's spacing, I will say that I'm really surprised (yet happy, in a "yay you beat me and learned well from me but it's frustrating I got beat by you that badly" way) at how well my Marth amiibo picked up and learned spacing and tippers from me. Whether amiibo actually copy the exact spacing that their opponent uses (whether it's good or bad spacing) or if Marth amiibo are specifically trained to copy tipper attacks (in a similar way to Luigi amiibo copying sweetspotted up B's), I find it really cool that my Marth amiibo was able to learn tippers and copy my Marth fighting style that closely. I'm still in awe at how much amiibo copy and learn strategies from their opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 ok, point conceded, at least mostly everything I've read from the character experts on smashboards (like this differences thread) says that it's just pixels, but those screenshots are convincing it's possible that the trails are misleading as to actual range, but that doesn't seem suuuper likely my bad; sorry rando, and thanks for the clear explanations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zera Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Is Lucina good for anything besides being WiFi Marth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingddd Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Is Lucina good for anything besides being WiFi Marth? She's cute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Is Lucina good for anything besides being WiFi Marth? She has the best alts in the game by far (excluding those who have different characters as alts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randoman Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 ok, point conceded, at least mostly everything I've read from the character experts on smashboards (like this differences thread) says that it's just pixels, but those screenshots are convincing it's possible that the trails are misleading as to actual range, but that doesn't seem suuuper likely my bad; sorry rando, and thanks for the clear explanations! Smashboards of all places made a claim like that, and didn't even use images to compare the two and support such claims? Weird... Considering the sword trails are the main reason I (along with many other Marth mains) was able to learn to tip moves proficiently with Marth, the sword trails being misleading is definitely not the case. No problem. Is Lucina good for anything besides being WiFi Marth? Considering that the general consensus is that Marth users online are better than Lucina users, I'd say she's not even better at online matches than Marth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Geargia Gateway Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 She has the best alts in the game by far (excluding those who have different characters as alts). I raise you a Pikachu. Seriosuly doh, Babies First Marth doesn't teach you to be good with Nerth, except himself. Playing him teaches you spacing, timing, decision making and patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 playing lucina teaches you patience as well it takes a long time to wait for people to walk into your fsmashes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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