When is Skill Inheritance Determined in this Game? Does it Work like Awakening?

[astrophys]

Just wondering, particularly when some of the information (screenshots) seems to be implying that only the default parent classes (not the secondaries) are getting passed.

[Whitelock]

If you mean Skill inheritance where the Parents has their most recent skills, then yes. It's still works functionally like Awakening.

They are passed down to the offspring.

As for the Secondary classes... I am not sure what do you mean by that.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Whitelock

[astrophys]

And its still set at the time you enter the chapter? Not at the time that they marry?

As for secondary classes:

In another thread, I asked people about how class inheritance was determined. As it turned out, people had images providing evidence to the hypothesis that it wasn't all classes from both parents that got inherited, but rather it was suggestive of them only inheriting the starting base class (and promotions thereof) from each parent.

For example, there was an image of the class changing of Kaze's daughter, who was the daughter of female Kamui in that picture. I couldn't read Japanese, but he poster on SerenesForest who had provided the image link had claimed that the Japanese said that the class change options listed were "Dark Princess" and "Ninja". i.e., she got the primary class from female Kamui and the primary class from Kaze, but she got neither of the second base classes that they had had.

That's what I meant.

[Whitelock]

And its still set at the time you enter the chapter? Not at the time that they marry?

As for secondary classes:

In another thread, I asked people about how class inheritance was determined. As it turned out, people had images providing evidence to the hypothesis that it wasn't all classes from both parents that got inherited, but rather it was suggestive of them only inheriting the starting base class (and promotions thereof) from each parent.

For example, there was an image of the class changing of Kaze's daughter, who was the daughter of female Kamui in that picture. I couldn't read Japanese, but he poster on SerenesForest who had provided the image link had claimed that the Japanese said that the class change options listed were "Dark Princess" and "Ninja". i.e., she got the primary class from female Kamui and the primary class from Kaze, but she got neither of the second base classes that they had had.

That's what I meant.

Oooooh, I see what you mean now. Well, it's actually the latter. The time they marry,and then there's the Paralogue to recruit them.

Now to finally answer your question (Hopefully)... and now that you mention it, I actually don't see their second bases class.

But from when I was playing the game, I was pretty sure secondary class skills are there, and the classes themselves...

Or my Japanese is just more horrible than it is.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Whitelock

[astrophys]

Its been a bit confusing because I don't have the game myself, so I've naturally been having to piece together this information from secondhand sources.

So you say inheritance is set when they marry…. that would be interesting, if that is indeed the case, as inheritances were only set in Awakening when you entered the paralogue, regardless how recently or how long ago you established the marriage.

Are you confident about this? Have I understood you correctly?

[Bovinian]

Oooooh, I see what you mean now. Well, it's actually the latter. The time they marry,and then there's the Paralogue to recruit them.

Now to finally answer your question (Hopefully)... and now that you mention it, I actually don't see their second bases class.

But from when I was playing the game, I was pretty sure secondary class skills are there, and the classes themselves...

Or my Japanese is just more horrible than it is.

If you aren't sure, tell us which child you used to check, as well as the child's parents, and I can type out in Japanese what classes we'd expect to see come up with a Parallel Seal. If the hypothesis that astrophys mentions is true, that is.

[Whitelock]

If you aren't sure, tell us which child you used to check, as well as the child's parents, and I can type out in Japanese what classes we'd expect to see come up with a Parallel Seal. If the hypothesis that astrophys mentions is true, that is.

I used myself and Leon as an example. And I have Foleo as the offspring example. Sorry if my wording is confusing...

[astrophys]

Of course, the hypothesis is not of my own origination, but something that was claimed to me in turn (admittedly, backed up by images, but I couldn't read the text of those images).

[Bovinian]

Eh, Foleo is not an ideal case because his starting class happens to be the same as Leo's secondary class. To answer the question anyway, if he parallel seals as a Rod Knight, his options should be ダークプリンス (Dark Prince) and ダークマージ (Dark Mage). He shouldn't have access to whatever you chose as the secondary class for your Avatar.

The ideal child to test would be one that either shares the same starting class as one of their parents, or comes in a starting class that neither of the parents have access to at all.

[zoned out]

The ideal child to test would be one that either shares the same starting class as one of their parents, or comes in a starting class that neither of the parents have access to at all.

Some other anon posted his child with Nyx and Kanna had Dark Princess as default with Lancer (his secondary) and Dark Mage (Nyx's base).

http://i.4cdn.org/vg/1435721167941.jpg

I don't know japanese but the icon its on is obviously the lancer.

Wiki says Dark Mage is ダークメイジ, so it matches up with what the anon said.

Femui!Midoriko only had Herb Merchant, Dark Princess, and Ninja. Maybe the anon had his secondary class set to Herb Merchant or Ninja so Midoriko got stuck with three. Maybe some pairings don't allow Kamui to pass down their secondary class.

I want to say that Whitelock's Foleo should have four classes. Dark Knight and Rod Knight from Leon and D, Princess and her secondary from Femui, If she doesn't pass down her secondary, then I'd say that children that have two classes like Leo and Midoriko can't inherit Kamui's secondary.

EDIT: Just realized that ダークメイジ doesn't match up with the picture. Looks like the wiki just ran dark mage through google translate and put it up as that. Regardless of that, she has Kunai Breaker which she inherited from Nyx.

Edited July 1, 2015 by zoned out

[astrophys]

One of the GameFAQs users proposed the following as a hypothesis… does anyone have the information to test it?

GameFAQs user NXmastererrace wrote: "Perhaps, the reason for Kanna inheriting MU's secondary is because dark princess is her base class and therefore inherited the secondary as she already had the default class. Maybe this can be tested to see if Grey inherits Saizou's second class as his default is ninja?"

[Bovinian]

One of the GameFAQs users proposed the following as a hypothesis… does anyone have the information to test it?

GameFAQs user NXmastererrace wrote: "Perhaps, the reason for Kanna inheriting MU's secondary is because dark princess is her base class and therefore inherited the secondary as she already had the default class. Maybe this can be tested to see if Grey inherits Saizou's second class as his default is ninja?"

I was considering that, because it would be really sad for Matoi to have Peg Warrior as her only class if Hinoka was her mother. The screenshot zoned out linked above seems to support that hypothesis, because Kanna as a Dark Princess has Kamui's Lancer secondary as well as Nyx's Dark Mage base, but not Nyx's Thief secondary. Though Nyx was still able to pass down Kunaibreaker, which is from the Thief line (Bow Knight).

[astrophys]

So, if that interpretation was correct, then Hinoka!Matoi would at least have her father's Pegasus Warrior and Samurai.

Another question would be whether it would look at Hinoka's duplicated Peagsus Warrior class, realize she has nothing to give, and grant Hinoka's secondary class, or whether Hinoka would just pass nothing.

I'm not too optimistic on this regards and my (pure unsubstantiated speculation) guess would be that Hinoka might not pass any classes down in this case, but who knows?

I suppose we could find someone on the forum who had Hinoka!Matoi and ask them directly… there was someone in a different thread about good/bad characters (from their personal experience) in which they had mentioned using her. If they responded, they could tell us how Matoi's inheritance worked, which would help us infer the inheritance rules.

Back to the topic of when skills are inherited, has anyone been able to confirm the prior claims of when the inheritance is set in stone or otherwise contradict them? In other words, is inheritance set at the time of marriage, or inheritance set at the time of entering the recruitment level (like in Awakening) the case this time?

[Bovinian]

So, if that interpretation was correct, then Hinoka!Matoi would at least have her father's Pegasus Warrior and Samurai.

Another question would be whether it would look at Hinoka's duplicated Peagsus Warrior class, realize she has nothing to give, and grant Hinoka's secondary class, or whether Hinoka would just pass nothing.

Every single screenshot I've seen so far of children reclassing showed them having two options. So I'm going to guess for now that each parent passes down their primary class if the child doesn't already have it, and passes down their secondary class otherwise. This results in all children getting three class trees in total, including Hinoka!Matoi who would end up with Peg Warrior / Samurai / Lance Fighter. The only exception would be if you do something like Zero x Nyx where both parents share the exact same two classes.

[astrophys]

That seems reasonable.

In any event, I remembered that SerenesForest user Arya had reported having Hinoka!Matoi in this thread:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=55111&hl=%2Bhinoka+%2Bmatoi

So I just sent them a private message asking them what Hinoka Matoi's classes are. If they choose to answer the question, this should clear up the issue.

ADDENDUM:

I also started up a topic asking for information on what children characters people had gotten and their class sets on GameFAQs. Thanks to that, we now have an extra data set:

Xion333 on GameFAQs wrote:

"Just tested for Oboro!Sophie (so that is a NohrxHoshido class pairing)

Sophie has:
Cavalier Tree - Paladin and Great Knight
Merc Tree - Hero and Bow Knight
Lancer Tree - Holy Lancer and Basara

No puppeteer nor Herb Merchant which Oboro can class change to"

Reflecting on this, this would mean in a case like this Oboro would ant to class change to the Herb Merchant tree at some point to pass Sophie a Herb Merchant, Great Merchant, or Puppeteer (I think, that is a promotion of Herb Merchant, right?) if one was concerned with "optimization" and wasn't abusing buying skills from MyCastle battles [or simply didn't have a good internet connection to do so even if one wanted to].

Similarly to how one would want to inherit Kunaibreaker or another such Thief tree skill from Nyx, in the earlier example.

As such, figuring out or at least confirming when the skills need to be in place will let us know how to set up such passes of trees that we're now finding out are definitely not inherited.

SECOND ADDENDUM….

More information from Xion333

"My Shigure has Prince and Rod Knight for his class changes (AzuraxCorrin)

As promoted his classes are:

White Blood
Falcon Knight
GKW
Strategist
Butler

No idea where the rod knight stuff came from as my Corrin's second class was samurai"

My comments on Xion's information:

So, Shigure's class trees ended up as:

Nohr Prince/White Blood
Pegasus Knight/Falcon Knight/Great Kite Warrior
Rod Knight/Strategist/Butler

This would follow from:

Pegasus Knight (starting class)
Nohr Prince (inherited from primary/default class of Corrin)
Rod Knight [this is not Aqua's class or Corrin's class….. it seems to be a replacement class for Aqua's primary Singer/Songstress]


I'm guessing we've just discovered that Rod Knight is the replacement class that Shigure gets for Azura's/Aqua's Singer/Songstress.

EDIT: Removed section on skill inheritance because I misunderstood Xion and the information I was giving was incorrect and what he has shared hasn't actually specified that information yet.

THIRD ADDENDUM:

Yet more useful information from Xion:

"Whew finally did it.

Shinonome gets Lancer, Samurai, and his mom's main class (mine is RyomaxSetsuna so archer in this case)

As promoted his classes are:

Trueblade
Weapon Master
Holy Lancer
Basara
GKW
Holy Bowman

Looks like the kids inherit the main class of the dad unless that main class is the main class of the child to begin with. In that case as is what was with Sophie you would get the dad's secondary class."
---

Edited July 1, 2015 by astrophys

[Ayra]

At astrophys request, here's the list of all the children I have and their class set:

Matoi (Hinoka-Subaki): Falcon Warrior, Golden Kite Warrior, Trueblade, Weapon Master, Holy Lancer, Basara

Shara (Azura-Tsukuyomi): Basara, Exorcist, Shura, Blacksmith, Falcon Warrior, Golden Kite Warrior

Sophie (Sakura-Silas): Paladin, Great Knight, Hero, Bow Knight, Exorcist, War Priestess

Midoriko (Hana-Kaze): Great Merchant, Trueblade, Weaponmaster, Elite Ninja, Puppetmaster (Note: She's the slowest unit on my team despite her parents from recruitment to endgame, so I'm questioning stat inheritance a bit)

Mitama (Setsuna-Asuna): War Priestess, Exorcist, Golden Kite Warrior, Sniper, Puppetmaster, Great Merchant

Kinu (Oboro-Nishiki): Kitsune, Holy Lancer, Basara, Exorcist

Shigure (Aqua-Tsukuyomi): (He's not promoted) Pegasus Warrior, Rod Knight, Spellcaster

[astrophys]

Thanks!

Matoi - So she DOES get the secondary classes of both of her parents when they overlap with her Pegasus primary… that's great news

Shara - her base class, her father's secondary class that isn't in common with hers, and Azura's secondary (as her main isn't inherited)

Sophie - her own class, her father's secondary that isn't her starting class, and her mother's starting clss

Midoriko (Hana-Kaze) - her starting class, plus both parent's starting classes, which aren't in common with hers

Mitama (Setsuna-Asuna) - the same rules seem to hold here too

Kinu: Gets the Kitsune starting class, Oboro's Lancer (for Holy lancer) and Nishiki's secondary Spellcaster (which has a common promotion with Lancer in Basara)

Shigure - starting class, Rod Knight seems to be his replacement for Aqua's class as she cannot pass her main and he already has her Pegasus, and his father's starting class.

Thanks!

I think that REALLY confirms the inheritance questions.

Perhaps you got unlucky with Midoriko's stats, or had classes that were unfavorable to it.

Edited July 1, 2015 by astrophys

[Bovinian]

Alright, so I guess that means my prediction in my last post was true. Good to know!

Lol so will the next topic of this type be about stat inheritance now? The only reason I'm curious about this is that it might make the claim that Lutz has "exceptionally good luck" complete bullshit.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Bovinian

[astrophys]

Well, with the work I did with calculating caps based on the data GameFAQs user Dlordflash provided to me and the class stat caps/character modifiers listed on Serenes, it definitely works with respect to maximum stat modifiers.

GROWTH RATES on the other hand, haven't been tested yet.

Lutz will have a negative luck mod thanks to Arthur in almost all cases, but he has an extremely high personal growth rate. Of course, if its like Awakening, this will get averaged with Arthur's terrible luck growth rate and the mother's growth rate.

At least the "exceptionally good luck" is still with regard to his personal skill's effect on himself and his allies… +15 crit evade to his nearby (within two spaces) allies is a helpful defensive boost.

[zoned out]

So the kids that have the same base class as the father will inherit his secondary class.

Kids that have a new class will inherit the father's base class.

Normally, mothers pass down their base class, but if there is an overlap then they will instead pass down their secondary.

So all kids should have three classes by default.

Thanks so much for this information! Makes you wonder if marriage seals between pairs with the same base (Hinoka/Subaki) would exchange their secondaries as well.

[Bovinian]

Oh somehow I missed the part where the children have their own base growth rates before factoring in those of their parents. My bad.

[eharper256]

Oh somehow I missed the part where the children have their own base growth rates before factoring in those of their parents. My bad.

Actually, about that, is it confirmed that it is literally (Parent A Growth + Parent B Growth + Kid's Base Growth)/3 like Awakening?

As for Classes, I'm right then in thinking its:

1. Kid's Base Class

IF Kid's Base Class /= Parent 1's Base Class

THEN 2. Parent 1's Base Class

ELSE 2. Parent 1's Alt Class

IF Classes so far /= Parent 2's Base Class

THEN 3. Parent 2's Base Class

ELSE 3. Parent 2's Alt Class

I wonder how a Zero/Nyx Eponine will work; as they have the same classes and Eponine is an Outlaw. I'm guessing she is nerfed and has just 2 classes unless there is a filler.