Quintessence Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Oh, admittedly, I didn't pay attention to Gen 2. But it might be worth the try, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 So anyone feel any tier changes are relevant right now? I say Sumia should go up to B-tier as a neat speedy General/Bride with Galeforce. I think she could swap places with Frederick whose access to PavGis doesn't quite convince me of his worth. Then again, a lot of B-tier residents aren't particularly impressive. Looking at the lower tiers, I think Ricken could raise? To the top of C anyway. He actually has a proc skill in Luna (everyone knows how effective this can be), and he has a reclass option to a Dread Fighter, Tomefaire, Aegis, Lifetaker, Bowbreaker, Hit Rate+20... What does everyone think? I even think low-B is justified, but I don't think anyone has used him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Sumia's winrate is really good in the tournament, she might even be better than above Frederick. Winrate isn't everything though, Cordelia's winrate is probably pretty lowish just because she's been everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 I think it only adds to Cordelia's worth how carefully she needs to be approached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Told ya so [sumia] Also I'd drop Yenfay a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine Sword Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) I agree with Sumia rising. I was considering using Ricken in my match against Refa, but he just seems outclassed by Chrom, who has a similar class set and can proc more reliably thanks to Rightful King. I guess Ricken has Tomefaire and Sage though. EDIT: Oh yeah, and Lifetaker, which is probably a more reliable way to regain HP than Aether. Edited July 28, 2015 by Carmine Sword Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 And gets doubled by everything Luna Aegis Tomefaire Hit+20 Bowbreaker is not a fantastic skillsets when its pretty much all he has Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 I say those skills still make him a better Dread Fighter than Lon'qu. Lon'qu's utility as an Assassin is what makes him as good as he is (read: not all that exceptionally good). And yeah, a bunch of A-tier doods could be re-arranged. Chrom up, for example. Definitely Gangrel, and Henry too probably. For the most part, I have no clue how to sort the B-tier ones though. They're all really different and their exact viability is hard to measure when we don't use them that enough (and for a good reason I guess). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Can we bump Walhart up? Over Stahl at least? Balmung makes him safe from doubling and no breakers make him easy to punish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 He can't hang on to that Balmung forever if he wants to be any useful. I mean, Dread Fighter Ricken reaches 46 AS with Balmung/Forseti, which is even more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintales Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Aren't Sorcerers overrated now that Aversa's Night forges aren't doable? I mean, they get wrecked by any tomebreaker melee (Gangrel, Cordelia, Henry, MU, Bride!Aversa, Tharja, and I might forget others), and have wonky hitrates to hit back. Add to that low skill compared to sage making procs less probable. They have better defenses, but I feel that overall, both Berserkers and Assassins are way better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 The reason those units are so good though, in part, is because they kill sorcs. The reason Gangrel berserkers show up so much is because Sorcerers are just that dangerous, you need a way to counter them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintales Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Gangrel and Henry also are really good overall. Their avoid and hit can get up to crazy levels thanks to Hex/Anathema/Lucky Seven, and they still get huge power with Axefaire + Vengeance. Add to that HP recovery with Lifetaker. They can also wreck most of sages too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) gangrel's horribly overrated imo he's very one dimensional and easy to handle. Chrom's also very one dimensional and is much harder to handle. Having a 76% Vengeance is pretty weak for the skill too. Edited July 28, 2015 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintales Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 gangrel's horribly overrated imo he's very one dimensional and easy to handle. Chrom's also very one dimensional and is much harder to handle. Having a 76% Vengeance is pretty weak for the skill too. Zerker!Gangrel has 47 speed, enough to double all non-Gangrel!Sorcerers, (not adding MU into this stuff) will always double Libra, and will double Lissa and Maribelle without Spd+2. Not to mention he doubles Bride!Tharja. He also gets three hitrates skills, making him negating the breaker skills (despite the fact that giving him those three breaker skills won't be that great), doubles Chrom, doubles every general and can use the Bolt Axe (with +8 mag thanks to Axefaire and his modifiers) or the Hammer to crush them... Sure, he's not the most threatening unit in the game, but don't forget he is the HaxKing. Cordelia, Chrom, MU are for sure way harder to deal with than Gangrel though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) I don't like Gangrel because if the Sorcerer has Forseti, he potentially gets nailed (Cordelia has Axebreaker, Tharja has Hit+20, Henry has lucky seven himself) and they all have Anathema to increase hit too. If he gets hit (vengeance or not) he's pretty easy to finish off with another unit because his defences are pretty horrible (both skillwise and statwise). So it's pretty risky for him to just go full out early on when his lucky 7 is actually active, and other units may avoid doubling since the +5 speed weapons are all pretty prevelant in the game. Lissa and Maribelle are pretty underwhelming units anyway. I just think he's really predictable. Edited July 29, 2015 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintales Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Yep, he is predictable, but he still does his job. Vengeance is an awesome skill to have, especially paired with Axes. Sure though, 33 defense hits him hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 All of one sorcerer in the game (two if Robin) have Axebreaker. He's a pretty safe opener, regardless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 leaving a sorceror in vengeance range to blick an assassin with celica's or get a massive heal off a general or something doesn't seem particularly safe. He's not a bad unit, but I definately think he's maybe high b tier at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) What I mean is +70 avoid against time users like Hit+20 Chrom!DF@Forseti (a semi common option) isn't a bad idea. Also, he pretty confidently quads those with 42 speed without booster gear, meaning he can get away with chumping out 40-46 damage pretty reliably on Sorcs that he won't double, and that's not the worst place to leave a Sorcerer at, considering they are fairly hard to take down otherwise Edited July 29, 2015 by Elieson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 No it's not. What if you just come out and attack Chrom and he has Balmung? Gangrel's just dead next turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Is it too out there to say I think Chrom and Cordelia are high if not top tier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintales Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Is it too out there to say I think Chrom and Cordelia are high if not top tier? They both have little-to-no counters, for sure. They also require some units with a specific skillset in order to counter them (Bride Cordelia is a pain to counter, and Dread Fighter Chrom is even harder), are really great (Cordelia can get up to 3 breakers, get also 46 speed with Spd+2 and 51 spd therefore with Yewfelle, and has Lancefaire, Lifetaker and Vengeance while Chrom gets 50% Aegis, 30% Aether and 50% Luna with decent hitrates thanks to HR+20). The real problem about Chrom is that you know how he's going to be built. But countering him is really hard. Most of the time, it's weakening him with one character -that is likely to die- and finishing him with another one along with a Brave Weapon. As for Cordelia, you need to bring a Superior Lance+ and/or a Superior Bow+ in order to counter her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 They both have little-to-no counters, for sure. They also require some units with a specific skillset in order to counter them (Bride Cordelia is a pain to counter, and Dread Fighter Chrom is even harder), are really great (Cordelia can get up to 3 breakers, get also 46 speed with Spd+2 and 51 spd therefore with Yewfelle, and has Lancefaire, Lifetaker and Vengeance while Chrom gets 50% Aegis, 30% Aether and 50% Luna with decent hitrates thanks to HR+20). The real problem about Chrom is that you know how he's going to be built. But countering him is really hard. Most of the time, it's weakening him with one character -that is likely to die- and finishing him with another one along with a Brave Weapon. As for Cordelia, you need to bring a Superior Lance+ and/or a Superior Bow+ in order to counter her. And thats not even counting her as a Hero which is another good class choice for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 If Chrom is running Balmung then he gets punished hard obviously. Anyone running Balmung punishes KingG pretty meanly by leaving him in Brave-KO range to those with any formidable offense. That being said, its because of him that Sorcs often can't run anything other than Foreseti as openers. Him and Assassins that is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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