What do you think of Hinoka!Matoi as a Great Lord? Good? Bad?

[astrophys]

Hinoka!Matoi has mods of:

+1 Str, +0 Mag, +2 Skl, +0 Spd, +0 Lck, +3 Def, +2 Res

and classes (and skills) of:

Pegasus Warrior (Swallow Strike, Eastern Heart), Falcon Warrior (Rally Speed, Mirror Strike), Golden Kite Warrior (Soar, Sun God)

Samurai (Flowing Strike, Vantage), Trueblade (Astra, Swordfaire), Weapon Master (Strength Seal, Line of Death)

Lance Fighter (Defense Seal, Substitute), Holy Lancer (Speed Seal, Lancefaire), Basara (Breaking Sky, Flamboyant)

Additionally, she can A+ with:

Sophie for Cavalier (Open Assault, Rescue), Paladin (Defender, Aegis), and Great Knight (Luna, Diamond Strike)

OR Syalla for Spellcaster (Magic +2 and Fortune) and Exorcist (Rally Magic, Tomefaire)

OR Mitama for Priestess (Miracle, Rally Luck), Exorcist (Rally Magic, Tomefaire), and War Priestess (Magic Counter, Renewal)

OR Eponine for Outlaw (Locktouch, Move+1), Bow Knight (Rally Skill, Kunaibreaker), and Adventurer (Lucky Seven, Pass)

And then she can marry any of the Hoshidan 2nd gens, Seigbert, Ignis, or the male Avatar for their classes and skills (secondary classes in the case of the male Avatar).

I was thinking that her options really offered her some nice potential as a Great Lord.

1. She has both weapon faires that it would use (Swordfaire and Lancefaire). She also has Lance ranks in her starting class, so she could switch over without losing access to those. Great Lord gets A rank swords, B rank lances.

2. She gets Swallow Strike if she wants it, so she can combine the fairly high speed of the class with this to double lots of other classes.

3. She has lots of opportunity for proc stacks even without skill buying shennangins: Astra and Breaking Sky come from her own class set, Luna can come from Sophie A+ or Ignis S, any proc she wants from an Avatar pairing if he takes the correct class, potentially Lethality from inheritance from a Tsubaki who A+ buddied with Saizou, and of course Aether from Great Lord itself.

4. Great Lord should work fairly well with Prodigy (it doesn't have huge strength, so Prodigy should trigger against many physical enemies, and it should also trigger against basically all magical enemies; Great Lord is a "fast" class in terms of its speed cap, but the +4 Prodigy bonus will put it damage output to something higher than would have been expected for more such "fast" classes).

5. Max stats (includes her mods): 60 HP, 31 Str [30+1], 25 Mag, 34 Skl [32+2], 34 Spd, 35 Lck, 32 Def [29+3], 33 Res [31+2]

6. Hinoka!Matoi is a princess (due to Hinoka being her mother) like Great Lord Lucina before her was.

What do people think of this idea?

What combination of faires/procs/other skills would you run with this combination?

[Azz]

It can definitely work.Matoi is very easily one of the best Great Lords in the game behind F!Kamui of coarse.As for a set-up, I would say LF/Awakening/Astra/Aether/Vantage.

LF cause she will already have like a C(Most likely maxed by the time you get all the skills)in Lances compared to her probable E(Though probably better like C once you get the skills she needs)in Swords.

Awakening and Vantage just work hand-in-hand.I mean with a Killer Lance Matoi will crit everything.Also she will be a great dodge tank.

Finally Aether and Astra for proc-stacking and just great power.

Matoi will be quite the killer.

[SapphireFalconWing]

Definitely the best Great Lord in the game! Decent strength for the prodigy boost, excellent skill and AMAZING speed , great defense, and excellent resistance plus 2 great weapon selections to use!

For skills I'm thinking

Vantage

Awakening

Aether

Astra/breaking sky

Lance/sword faire

Killer weapons will be devastating on her which I tried fully forged +7

Also trying to get a maxed out Tsubakis Naginata for her and it'll be worth it in the end!

Edited August 8, 2015 by SapphireFalconWing

[astrophys]

Given how Astra and Aether work, they'd also be quite useful in synergy with an Avatar's Nohr and Hoshido skills…

Particularly, in Guard Stance they should end up building shield gauge really quickly due to their multiple hits whenever they trigger.

And of course, they'd be quite nice for Matoi to have on her own when in Attack Stance or when in neither Attack nor Guard Stance. And she can also use them from the front of Guard Stance for the same purpose (more damage and increased shield gauge gain), although not as affectively as a Nohr+Hoshido Avatar in the lead with her as the support (as his Hoshido would boost the activation rate).

I think you guys are right about Awakening + Vantage…. its pretty crazy. Of course, she only gets to really exploit the vantage part of it if enemies attack her at 1 range or if she is using the appropriate ranged weapons, but the avoid and crit evade bonuses should really help out the survivability when she gets drops down to low HP…. that and that crazy hit and crit bonus should help her in killing those foes….

I get the feeling that Awakening will be very "broken", in the overpowered sense.

EDIT: Swordfaire is probably theoretically better for a Great Lord (higher weapon rank should make swords do slightly more damage, all things being equal, and the existence of Brave Swords [only relevant if you aren't giving your Brave Sword to someone else], but lance indeed would help deal with Weapon rank issues…

Indeed, all but one of the skills in the build (Astra) could be gotten without ever needing to deal with a sword lock….

1. Lancefaire (uses the lance rank that Matoi starts with)

2. Vantage (can be picked up through weapons master as you start earning the prior Samurai skills that you previously missed out on, which gets B rank lances)

3. Aether (from Great Lord, which gets both swords and lances)

4. Awakening (also from Great Lord).

Astra is the only skill in those builds that involves temporarily abandoning the lance rank for a sword lock. One can pick up the prior Flowing Strike and Vantage from Weapons Master, so Astra could be grabbed with only one level of sword lock. (That said, going to Trueblade for three levels of sword lock would let you save the use of a skill by getting Astra and Vantage through the same class, and if you wanted Swordfaire you could continue there regardless).

Or, there is the alternate option of forgoing Astra in favor of another skill just to save time, like Swallow Strike, which Matoi already has, or something else from a Lance class (like Breaking Sky or Luna). Although Astra is admittedly very appealing due to its application to Dual Guards.

Edited August 8, 2015 by astrophys

[Twylis]

let's also not ignore that the bright red hair would match the lining of the cape splendidly

[Azz]

let's also not ignore that the bright red hair would match the lining of the cape splendidly

Well that too.:P

[Thane]

let's also not ignore that the bright red hair would match the lining of the cape splendidly

And Cordelia will never know.

[SapphireFalconWing]

let's also not ignore that the bright red hair would match the lining of the cape splendidly

oh of course! :)

[Morgan]

I think she'd be a devastatingly powerful Great Lord. Like everyone has said, Awakening with Vantage is great. Matoi's personal skill synergies well with the class' mods and plus Hinoka!Matoi as a Great Lord is poetic. She's dressing as the daughter that no matter what she could never have :3

[SapphireFalconWing]

I think she'd be a devastatingly powerful Great Lord. Like everyone has said, Awakening with Vantage is great. Matoi's personal skill synergies well with the class' mods and plus Hinoka!Matoi as a Great Lord is poetic. She's dressing as the daughter that no matter what she could never have :3

well she's a princess so she has everything going for her plus a future daughter princess in kanna.

[astrophys]

Of course, strictly speaking, Luna!Matoi would do the Cordelia reference even closer, but she's likely not as good of a candidate for Great Lord…. while -1 STR means that Prodigy does trigger more against various enemies, its a loss of 2 damage vs. Hinoka Matoi's +1 STR mod, so even in the cases where Prodigy triggers for Luna!Matoi where it wouldn't for Hinoka!Matoi its only a two damage gain, whereas Luna!Matoi loses 2 damage against everything else.

Luna!Matoi is 1 speed faster, but Luna also has worse stat growths overall to pass down. All Matoi variants will get Swordfaire from Subaki, but Luna removes the option of Lancefaire Great Lord without Matoi having to use a marriage seal for it.

All in all, I think I'd rather have the Great Lord Princess Matoi.

[SapphireFalconWing]

Of course, strictly speaking, Luna!Matoi would do the Cordelia reference even closer, but she's likely not as good of a candidate for Great Lord…. while -1 STR means that Prodigy does trigger more against various enemies, its a loss of 2 damage vs. Hinoka Matoi's +1 STR mod, so even in the cases where Prodigy triggers for Luna!Matoi where it wouldn't for Hinoka!Matoi its only a two damage gain, whereas Luna!Matoi loses 2 damage against everything else.

Luna!Matoi is 1 speed faster, but Luna also has worse stat growths overall to pass down. All Matoi variants will get Swordfaire from Subaki, but Luna removes the option of Lancefaire Great Lord without Matoi having to use a marriage seal for it.

All in all, I think I'd rather have the Great Lord Princess Matoi.

without a doubt!

[Ebony]

You really like Matoi don't you? Ehe, it's okay, we all have our favorites.

Anyway I agree with everyone else, Great Lord Hinoka Matoi sounds like she'd be a great damage dealer. A more reliable one. Though I am curious, if you didn't do her, is there anyone else you were planning on using?

[SapphireFalconWing]

You really like Matoi don't you? Ehe, it's okay, we all have our favorites.

Anyway I agree with everyone else, Great Lord Hinoka Matoi sounds like she'd be a great damage dealer. A more reliable one. Though I am curious, if you didn't do her, is there anyone else you were planning on using?

of course we have our favorites as for your question Elise!Ophelia and Hana!Velour are also great candidates!

[astrophys]

Yes, I'm also guilty of really liking Matoi.

Then again, I really liked Cordelia (I had my Avatar marry her in 7 of my 9 separate playthroughs of Awakening… in my first playthrough I rushed into the S-rank before I had even met Cordelia and ended up with Miriel…. in my third playthrough I played as the female Robin just for the sake for a one-time variety… and in every other playthrough I married my Avatar to Cordelia).

And Matoi is a deliberate homage to Cordelia. She has a lot of the traits that I liked about Cordelia, as well as the appearance. So its fairly unsurprising that my liking of Cordelia in Awakening has translated to a liking of Matoi in Fates.

As for other characters who could pull it off:

Hana can basically make any daughter a Swordfaire capable Great Lord when combined with giving that daughter the Great Lord class change emblem.

She can have Midoriko, Matoi (although Matoi can do this without Hana's help), Sophie, Mitama, Shara, Kinu, Velour, and Soleil among daughters. Of these, Sophie naturally can use the weapons (and gets a faire for her cavalier class), Shara can pull off a similar build to Ophelia (although she wants Vantage, rather than Swordfaire; she isn't as good at crits, that said), Velour tends to have high strength, and Soleil (and her father Lazward) get a relevant faire in a weapon type they already use.

Oboro can have the same Hoshidan daughters and Eponine as a Nohrian daughter. Sophie would be able to use Lancefaire (as would Silas).

[SapphireFalconWing]

Yes, I'm also guilty of really liking Matoi.

Then again, I really liked Cordelia (I had my Avatar marry her in 7 of my 9 separate playthroughs of Awakening… in my first playthrough I rushed into the S-rank before I had even met Cordelia and ended up with Miriel…. in my third playthrough I played as the female Robin just for the sake for a one-time variety… and in every other playthrough I married my Avatar to Cordelia).

And Matoi is a deliberate homage to Cordelia. She has a lot of the traits that I liked about Cordelia, as well as the appearance. So its fairly unsurprising that my liking of Cordelia in Awakening has translated to a liking of Matoi in Fates.

As for other characters who could pull it off:

Hana can basically make any daughter a Swordfaire capable Great Lord when combined with giving that daughter the Great Lord class change emblem.

She can have Midoriko, Matoi (although Matoi can do this without Hana's help), Sophie, Mitama, Shara, Kinu, Velour, and Soleil among daughters. Of these, Sophie naturally can use the weapons (and gets a faire for her cavalier class), Shara can pull off a similar build to Ophelia (although she wants Vantage, rather than Swordfaire; she isn't as good at crits, that said), Velour tends to have high strength, and Soleil (and her father Lazward) get a relevant faire in a weapon type they already use.

Oboro can have the same Hoshidan daughters and Eponine as a Nohrian daughter. Sophie would be able to use Lancefaire (as would Silas).

exactly the same for me!

[Kyan Surr]

And what about Oboro!Matoi would it work too? She would also have access to Lancefaire and Breaking Sky and Oboro would provide that Lord ("Chromish") hair colour. Btw, I don't know what mods would Matoi inherit then :/

[astrophys]

Oh, yes, Oboro!Matoi has an identical skillset to Hinoka!Matoi, not counting different opportunities for parental inheritance (from secondaries or A+ ranks).

Hinoka has superior total growth rates (305%) than does Oboro (280%), which when inheriting down to Matoi will tend to make Matoi have slightly better overall growth rates (but this only matters before capping)

As for the mods:

Hinoka!Matoi:

+1 Str, +0 Ma, +2 Skl, +0 Spd, +0 Lck, +3 Def, +2 Res

Oboro!Matoi:

+1 Str, +0 Mag, +4 Skl, +0 Spd, -1 Lck, +5 Def, -1 Res

Both have the same sum total of modifiers (+8), but distributed differently:

When capped:

They both deal the same physical damage.

They both deal the same magical damaged.

Oboro!Matoi is more accurate (+2 SKL, -1 Lck --> 2.5 more hit), activates skills more easily (+1% Aether, 3% Breaking Sky), and has +1% more crit

They have equal speeds and double/avoid being doubled equally; but Hinoka!Matoi has better avoid (by 0.5 avoid) due to not having -1 LCK.

Hinoka!Matoi is luckier and thus has +1 crit evade and activates luck skills more slightly readily.

Oboro!Matoi has 2 more defense, so she takes 2 less damage from physical attacks.

Hinoka!Matoi has 3 more resistance (+2 vs. -1), so she takes 3 less damage from magical attacks.

Yes, Oboro!Matoi could pull of similar builds… I like redheads, so I gravitated towards making Matoi a redhead, but they have fairly similar capabilities.

Both can get Copycat Puppet (if you want it), although Oboro!Matoi has a slightly easier time with it… Oboro has Herb Merchant (and thus Puppeteer) naturally and can get it from level 15 Puppeteer if she wants to. Hinoka!Matoi (as can all Matoi's) can still get it, but her father has to A+ with Saizou, class change, and then pass it down.

Or you could dispense with Copycat altogether if you don't want to go through that hassle and want to get Matoi earlier in the game.