New ~Official Touhou Chat Thread~

[Robert Stewart]

TPDP doesn't have Layla or Youki or Satsuki or Lily Black.

is sacchin a 2hu now?

[Zak Something]

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Rin_Satsuki

[Robert Stewart]

she's forgotten, so the joke still works, sorta.

[Lance Masayoshi]

lol Tsukihime jokes

[LuksusMusemås]

And I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that a game's Hard Mode is easier than another game's Lunatic Mode, or at least, that it's not that much more difficult. UFO Hard is really tough for a Hard Mode, but at the same time it's not as blatantly ridiculous as LoLK. Players are more easily attracted to UFO Hard than UFO Lunatic, only to suffer heavily from it. Which makes UFO Hard... pretty evil, if you ask me.

The only thing you can really reasonably expect from the difficulties is that the hierarchy goes like Easy-Normal-Hard-Lunatic from easiest to hardest. Comparing them to other games is a silly thing, since the games are very different from each other and the objectives of the game design are different from game to game.

You should only expect that Normal is easier than Hard and the like, but you have no reason to expect that any given Hard mode will necessarily be easier than Lunatics in other games, it simply doens't make sense. Additionally you should not pick the difficulty just because its named the same as what you usually play. If you're doing Normal usually but find a given game too easy, just play Hard and similarly if you're playing Lunatic but you find one game too hard, then just play Hard. Play the difficulty mode that suits your skills the best, don't just stick to Hard "because you're a Hard mode player" or whatever.

Edited January 18, 2016 by LuksusMusemås

[Kriemhild]

The only thing you can really reasonably expect from the difficulties is that the hierarchy goes like Easy-Normal-Hard-Lunatic from easiest to hardest. Comparing them to other games is a silly thing, since the games are very different from each other and the objectives of the game design are different from game to game.

You should only expect that Normal is easier than Hard and the like, but you have no reason to expect that any given Hard mode will necessarily be easier than Lunatics in other games, it simply doens't make sense. Additionally you should not pick the difficulty just because its named the same as what you usually play. If you're doing Normal usually but find a given game too easy, just play Hard and similarly if you're playing Lunatic but you find one game too hard, then just play Hard. Play the difficulty mode that suits your skills the best, don't just stick to Hard "because you're a Hard mode player" or whatever.

It's not only about comparing them to other games, and I disagree with it being a silly thing. As far as Normal Modes and Hard Modes are concerned, the different Touhou games have all been "reasonably" consistent. I'm not assuming that a Hard Mode should be easier than all Lunatics. In fact, I found SA Normal to be tougher than a lot of Hard Modes and even a Lunatic Mode, but I still found that to be reasonable. As far as my opinion goes, the only exceptions are UFO Hard, LoLK Normal, and LoLK Hard. That's three out of... at least twenty-eight from my experience. So no, I don't find it silly to expect 3 cases to be consistent with the other 25.

And as I said, it's not just about them to other games. I didn't spend two months attempting UFO Hard simply because it was a Hard Mode. People who raeg at UFO Hard aren't doing it because it's too tough for a Hard Mode. But because UFO Hard deceives players into thinking they can handle it and then trolls them... really hard. I certainly wouldn't mind if a Lunatic Mode does this, but this is really cruel for a Hard Mode.

[ZemZem]

UFO Hard is what I consider the make-it-or-break-it of the modes, since it's probably the most infamous mode in the series due to the sheer amount of complaints I heard about it. People who have 1cced UFO Normal or under often have not had to get into the UFO system too much, and since Hard is a pretty noticeable spike from Normal, they're often overwhelmed and have to actually learn the system, which provides frustration for them since they would scramble around the screen for the UFOs while dealing with the patterns.

As for LoLK, the entire game is just mindless bombspam.

[LuksusMusemås]

I don't understand the complaints for UFO Hard. If its too hard for you, just play Normal or work on your game more so you can deal with the increased difficulty. The game let's you get a lot of resources if you get into how the UFO system works and its a quite flexible system so its not like there isn't any mechanics in place to offset the higher general pattern difficulty.

[ZemZem]

Well you know how a lot of people in this fanbase are. Many refuse to watch replays that would help them, and some even refuse to practice since they feel it'd be a waste of time.

[Clarinets]

I've never even played UFO hard. But UFO Normal was not very difficult, so I might as well give it a shot.

famous last words

[Zak Something]

I still cant beat half the games on easy. <:3

[ZemZem]

I've never even played UFO hard. But UFO Normal was not very difficult, so I might as well give it a shot.

famous last words

Make me proud!

[Magical Glace]

This is why we should all just try to NNN PCB Ex instead

[Clarinets]

Make me proud!

Nazrin's 2nd nonspell in her boss fight is really fun but her 2nd spellcard is painful

that's pretty much as far as I've gotten, granted I've been resetting every time I died or grabbed the wrong color of UFO (I've only been taking red UFOs)

[ZemZem]

...Didn't even make it to Stage 2?

Well, what I like to do is summon UFOs in the following order for Stage 1: Red, Rainbow, Red, Red. And at the end of Stage 1, Nazrin would drop a life piece upon defeat (assuming you don't time out her final spell), which means the best you can enter Stage 2 with is 4 lives and 2 bombs.

[Clarinets]

...Didn't even make it to Stage 2?

Well, what I like to do is summon UFOs in the following order for Stage 1: Red, Rainbow, Red, Red. And at the end of Stage 1, Nazrin would drop a life piece upon defeat (assuming you don't time out her final spell), which means the best you can enter Stage 2 with is 4 lives and 2 bombs.

I probably could've easily made it to Stage 2 if I didn't reset every time I died or grabbed the wrong UFO color.

Thanks for the tip~

[ZemZem]

Anytime. I can provide replays as well.

[Kriemhild]

...Didn't even make it to Stage 2?

Well, what I like to do is summon UFOs in the following order for Stage 1: Red, Rainbow, Red, Red. And at the end of Stage 1, Nazrin would drop a life piece upon defeat (assuming you don't time out her final spell), which means the best you can enter Stage 2 with is 4 lives and 2 bombs.

Note to Clarinets: You can skip the rainbow if you don't care about a) score, b) reaching full power early, since it doesn't really influence how many lives you can get.

More importantly, Clarinets, which shot type are you using? If it's not MarisaA, I would actually suggest bombskipping Nazrin's second spell.

Disclaimer: I never 1cc'd UFO Hard myself so don't expect my "advice" to be reliable. ZM-chan can testify as to how hard I fail; he just witnessed it himself.

[ZemZem]

I'm sure you'll get better results with ReimuA/SanaeB, but you're doing alright regardless. Just gotta be more persistent.

[Clarinets]

Note to Clarinets: You can skip the rainbow if you don't care about a) score, b) reaching full power early, since it doesn't really influence how many lives you can get.

More importantly, Clarinets, which shot type are you using? If it's not MarisaA, I would actually suggest bombskipping Nazrin's second spell.

Disclaimer: I never 1cc'd UFO Hard myself so don't expect my "advice" to be reliable. ZM-chan can testify as to how hard I fail; he just witnessed it himself.

Well, I don't think that reaching full power early would be very useful from what I've played through so far and I don't care about score so I guess I'll just get all red UFOs.

I'm using Sanae A. I don't think I've used like half of the shot types in this game, but that's the one I'm most accustomed to. And thanks for the tip!

I'm sure you'll get better results with ReimuA/SanaeB, but you're doing alright regardless. Just gotta be more persistent.

Yeah, I'll continue working on it tomorrow morning.

[Clarinets]

wow Marisa A trivializes Stage One

and I think I'm starting to figure out the pattern to Nazrin's second spell

[ZemZem]

Well, I don't think that reaching full power early would be very useful from what I've played through so far and I don't care about score so I guess I'll just get all red UFOs.

I'm using Sanae A. I don't think I've used like half of the shot types in this game, but that's the one I'm most accustomed to. And thanks for the tip!

Yeah, I'll continue working on it tomorrow morning.

SanaeA is pretty weak and, IMO, outclassed by ReimuB as a homing shot and SanaeB for overall performance (SB has better stages and bosses, though their damage output is about the same. SB has an awesome shotgun, though).

[Kriemhild]

Well, I don't think that reaching full power early would be very useful from what I've played through so far and I don't care about score so I guess I'll just get all red UFOs.

Good man. #RedUFOsONLY

I'm using Sanae A. I don't think I've used like half of the shot types in this game, but that's the one I'm most accustomed to. And thanks for the tip!

Yeah, I'll continue working on it tomorrow morning.

Hmmm, SanaeA is not a shot that I'd recommend. If you really want homing, I heard ReimuB works pretty well, but I'd honestly recommend giving up on homing for the awesomeness of ReimuA / MarisaA / SanaeB. Then again, if you're accustomed to SanaeA well enough, you'd probably perform the best with her so it may not be a bad idea to stick to her.

wow Marisa A trivializes Stage One

She really does~ <3

and I think I'm starting to figure out the pattern to Nazrin's second spell

MarisaA has a nice time with boss Nazrin's final spell because her lasers pierce the crystals. Moving to a side works well enough to prevent the bullets from being hellish. Other shot types though... Edited January 19, 2016 by Rainbow

[ZemZem]

Every shot handles Nazrin's final spell just fine. On Hard, though, it's rather tricky since it works completely different compared to the other three difficulties, but don't worry about that for now.

[LuksusMusemås]

Don't entirely discount rainbows. For example, if you have a red piece and you see a green piece and a blue piece of the kind that doesn't change color, quickly grab them and fill up the UFO. This will not only give you a free cancel of any bullets on screen, but will also release two UFO pieces (one from filling up a rainbow UFO, another from destroying it) that change color meaning you can actually go from from having 1 red ufo piece to having 2 without losing anything. If you see an opportunity to either summon a rainbow UFO or pick up two red pieces (here one would be red, another would be changing, another would be a fixed blue for example) then still summon the rainbow because of the bullet cancel and still getting two red pieces.

... maybe this advice is something only advanced players can use but hey, just wanted to share it because, idk i just find the UFO mechanic to be pretty fun and if you get good at using it you can find yourself halfway through stage 4 with max lives and max bombs and you can fix mistakes in your UFO route by being smart with them (until high end scoreplay at least) which is really neat :P

EDIT: As for Nazrin's second spell on Hard mode. Yeah, its kinda hard. I actually routinely bombed it when i was going for my first hard 1cc but if you want to capture it, try to look for opportunities to get direct hits on the mouse and when the crystals starts going low, move out to the sides where dodging it will be easier.

Edited January 19, 2016 by LuksusMusemås