Batmafia!!! Game Over

[Dreamer]

Town:

Yolo, Super Knight, Refa

Shin: The main reason i’m townreading you is because of lord Gaius. But i don’t understand your rollclaim. I could not find a spider man treat either. Could you, or someone else, futher explain it?

Potential scum:

Baldrick: I was townreading him, but i’m not so sure now, because his reaction to Eliesons case is a bit overreacted. I understand that he don’t like it, but if he is scumreading him, why would he put so much time to defend himself?

JB:He is mostly on this because he don’t have a lot of content yet.

Elieson: The votes on Mancer were awful. And you are not very lucky that i’m townreading Refa since te beginning of the game.

On this moment i think that you are my biggest scum read, and thus i would sheep the case on you. Honestly, you are the only one i could vote for this day.

I know it isn’t a lot, but for now i’m happy it is something. When i'm home again i'll probarly make another post.

[Baldrick]

If Elie wants to know why I'm scumreading him, he can reread my ISO. His case today isn't any better; he hasn't addressed how he made the logical leap I pointed out earlier, and his accusation is just conspiracy theory and wild guesses rather than actual deductions. Case in point, when I asked him why Tiny may have rejected advice from a buddy, he threw out a dozen reasons without any justification for them based on evidence. The reason I have gone through them thoroughly is to show they do not stand up to scrutiny.

Because Spiderman wears a mask that completely covers his face, he appears to always have the same expressionless expression. When put into a ridiculous situation, he acts a straight man. His quiet dignity in the face of shenanigans resonates with all of us, and that's why 60's Spiderman is the dankest of dank memes.

[Shin]

Apparently lynching > not lynching, as a rule of thumb? I'll unvote if I'm screwing things up.

It's more that you've just strolled in and attempted to vote Eli, which would have hammered him. A little reasoning behind your vote would go a long way, especially since you don't make any mention of Eli in your vote post.

[Mitsuki]

CLARINETS AND OBOES, PLEASE SHUT UP. Dead people don't talk.

If a forum mod can delete his post I'd appreciate it.

Edit: By the way, JBCWK doesn't need a hydra anymore

Edited December 11, 2015 by Mitsuki

[Baldrick]

If it came down to Shin or Elieson, I would still lynch the former. But I don't think I could get enough support for that wagon, too many people are townreading him.

Do you want reasons why Spiderman's meme is way cool? Read on!

5 Reasons Batman Can’t Beat Spider-Man (Let Alone Superman)

Amidst all the hype and hysteria surrounding the proclamation that the next big DC live action movie will be a Superman/Batman crossover, comic book fans around the world (and, in particular, fans of the man of steel and the caped crusader) have been embroiled in a war of words about which of the two heroes would win in a fight.

Of course, it’s been done umpteen times in the comics, but the debate is ongoing, with some saying Superman’s sheer power is too much for the dark knight, while others claim that Batman’s intellect, stealth abilities and knowledge of Superman’s weaknesses mean that he will come out on top.

The latter is, of course, complete baldrick, as anyone with even a modicum of comic book knowledge knows that Superman would see off Batman with consummate ease if it came down to it – indeed, a mere lazy flick of Superman’s finger should knock Batman out without much trouble (and I should inform you that I have no ‘favourite’ in this debate, I like both characters – I just happen to be realistic).

But what about Marvel’s Spider-Man? Could Batman defeat the webbed wonder? Peter Parker does have superhuman physical statistics, but he’s no Superman. He can’t fly, he can’t move at the speed of light and his strength isn’t enough to move planets – not even close, in fact.

But the fact is he still kicks Batman’s ass and I’m going to tell you why.

Here are five reasons that Batman can’t beat Spider-Man in a fight (let alone Superman)…

5. Webbing

A lot of people tend to forget that Spider-Man can attack from a distance, which he can – and he can do it very quickly and very accurately.

He can fire his webbing at speeds quick enough to snatch bullets out of the air, while his accuracy is such that he can web-up hands, eyes, mouths, weapons, gadgets or anything else he wants to aim for in the blink of an eye.

And the thing that makes the webbing so dangerous? Its strength.

The webbing is strong enough to bind and hold even those opponents with superhuman strength, so someone like Batman would have no chance of escaping from it and, given the speeds Spider-Man fires them at, he’d have no chance of avoiding it either.

Interestingly, masters students at Leicester University actually conducted research in to just how strong Spider-Man’s webbing would be if indeed it was real. The results showed that real-life webbing proportional to the size of Spider-Man’s would indeed be strong enough to stop a train – just like the webbed wonder did in the Spider-Man 2 movie, for example.

4. Spider-Sense

One of Batman’s key strengths is his ability to move around unnoticed, hiding in the shadows and ambushing his opponents before they even know he’s there.

In a fight with Spider-Man, even in a location or setting that would seem to favour the dark knight, his stealth would simply be cancelled out by Spider-Man’s spider-sense.

As soon as Batman came in to Spider-Man’s vicinity with intentions to attack him, the spider-sense would kick-in and alert Parker to his presence, negating any advantage that he thought he might have had.

Essentially, there’ll be no hiding from and no sneak attacks on Spider-Man. His acute superhuman senses will see to that.

It’s also worth noting that Spider-Man’s pretty stealthy himself. Not that he’d need to be in a fight with Batman, given the overwhelming difference in their physical stats.

3. Strength

Spider-Man can generally lift around 15 tonnes (as a general rule).

I’ll just specify that again: Peter Parker can lift 15 tonnes under his own power. That’s him holding a building up in the picture – a feat a little bit above his standard showings, but a good depiction of the fact that he is considerably stronger than Batman.

One landed punch from the webbed wonder and Mr. Wayne would be out for the count – and that’s if he was holding back (as he tends to do). If Spider-Man was bloodlusted and he punched Batman, Batman’s face would explode.

Spider-Man has actually been shown on panel lifting a tank with maximum effort, which is probably just bad writing given that those things weigh between 50 and 70 tonnes, but he regularly lifts cars and has lifted a train carriage and his punches have hurt villains with considerably more durability than Batman, so his strength is an enormous threat to the caped crusader – in fact it’s simply out of Batman’s pay-grade.

2. Speed

Spider-Man is generally described, in comic book terms, as what is known as a high-end bullet-timer. That is he can see a bullet coming towards him, after it’s left the barrel of a gun, and still be quick enough to dodge it easily.

This speed of movement, which generally means he can move faster than the human eye can see, means that Batman would have one hell of a time trying to tag him. More importantly, it would mean Batman would find it impossible to dodge Spider-Man’s own attacks (and with Spidey’s attacks utilising the strength we’ve already discussed, it would be lights out for old Bats).

As the above picture illustrates, Spider-Man has the speed and agility to simultaneously dodge and outmaneuver no less than 9 laser beams being fired at him from close range. When Batman can attack with more than that kind of speed and relentlessness, Spider-Man might feel threatened. As things stand, forget about it.

1. No Convenient Weakness

Finally, the number one reason that Batman can’t beat Spider-Man is that he doesn’t have a convenient, plot-device weakness to exploit.

The main reason that Bat-fans tend to think that the caped crusader can beat Superman is because he could just bring some Kryptonite along with him to the fight (which, simply put, guarantees nothing… but we won’t go in to that here). In an encounter with Spider-Man, the Dark Knight has no such convenience to utilise. He has no advantages whatsoever.

That’s his one chance against the man of steel and without such an opportunity against a foe as formidable as Spidey, Batman just isn’t pulling one of his big ‘underdog’ wins out of the bag.

So there you have it: Five reasons why Batman can’t beat Spider-Man. Agree? Disagree? Let us know in the comments box below!

And please feel free to follow me on Twitter!

[Jaybee]

... Where did shin claim PR giver?

[Elieson]

First off, I'm town.
[spoiler=What I think your Leap might be referring to]

If Elie wants to know why I'm scumreading him, he can reread my ISO. His case today isn't any better; he hasn't addressed how he made the logical leap I pointed out earlier, and his accusation is just conspiracy theory and wild guesses rather than actual deductions. Case in point, when I asked him why Tiny may have rejected advice from a buddy, he threw out a dozen reasons without any justification for them based on evidence. The reason I have gone through them thoroughly is to show they do not stand up to scrutiny.

Which Leap?

My accusation isn't just a conspiracy theory, just because you say it is. You took one piece of my argument and wrote a bible of reasons calling me incorrect including logic like:

I would totally bus, I bussed Randa the whole game in Shovel Knight. I know that in order to be successful, mafia must communicate with each other. If I am mafia intending to bus a noobscum buddy, do you think I would leave them to their own devices, and not advise their reactions in order to put more distance between us?

Which is basically saying "Guys I promise I'm not scum because if I were I would have told my buddy/buddies what to do! You gotta believe me!"

Speaking of not committing to reads, get off the fence. I'm sick of these accusations. It would be the easiest thing in the world for me to do nothing, I'd blend right in. Instead, I do my best to make my thoughts known and I get belittled and insulted for it.

I pointed out a reason why your behaviour is either bad town or scummy scum. I followed it with a reason for why your behaviour was way more likely to be scummy scum than bad town. Again, here you're defending yourself with "I wouldn't do that because I'm town! Trust me! I wouldn't lie!"

But why are you concluding Tiny would be reluctant to attack her buddy? That would defeat the purpose of bussing.

TinyGoddess is a new player, evident by her history here on Mafia and her general play style. She wasn't posting, evident by her lack of posting frequency. Where do you get off assuming that every player is immediately and always capable of not only knowing how to bus (and well), but also bussing in general? You've been newbscum before; I have too. I don't remember you joining mafia and immediately being a hotshot. Lots of people on SF have trouble bussing (me included), so to argue that she would be reluctant to bus is fundamentally wrong unless you're inside her mind and look at her posts for evidence. We can't get in her scum!mind, but we can look at her posts and assume based on context that the people she responded to without pushing could theoretically be scum. Deny that all you want, the fact is that it's possible and you can't discredit it just by saying you don't think it'd happen.

That implies you don't actually find it scummy per se, you're just scumreading me because of (case) [do you mean the interaction with tiny?]

I already covered this. You're scummy because the person in which I believe is your partner made you look bad by association. Your incredible reactions to her playstyle and your meta-defense re: coaching is making you look worse.

1) A lack of reaction can be just as telling as any other reaction. It is not natural; it can give the impression you're not bothered about being scumread and don't care if you're lynched.
2) A similar reasoning can be used to justify scum!tiny and town!me. Scum don't want to avoid associations that can incriminate buddies; they also want to avoid associations that can clear town players.
The exception to this rule is bussing; scum are trying to create "false positives" for town to pick up on, so stronger reactions and longer interactions will draw the attention of town and give them more to work with.

1. That's just it. She did not react. She basically answered your questions in those two instances in the most mundane, unemotional and waffley of ways. Just look at her responses and tell me what she said that you followed up on, and what was addressed in a way that could be argued as a "read" with.

2. Like I said in my posts earlier; TinyGoddess is not playing like experienced scum. Therefore I would assume that since she has already played suboptimally by giving out overwhelmingly mediocre "reads", that she would also bus poorly and have difficulties with intentionally making others look more townie by association.

I can go on and on but I'm very uncertain if you're going to let this one go because while the case isn't 100% conclusive, you keep flipping my argument around and defending yourself with meta assumptions and meta assertions. Your case on me isn't 100% conclusive; and if you meant this by the Leap, you probably mean this:

Elieson - he's been shifty, his switch to Mancer was sudden and I don't buy his explanation for it.

If you don't by my explanation then that's your choice. The thing is;

1. I'm town and I wouldn't just appear out of the blue to both defend & hammer a buddy
2. Nobody was around on the developing wagon
3. If I kept voting for Tiny, there is absolutely no reason for me to assume that a lynch would have occurred because nobody was around and my additional vote would not have hammered
4. A No Lynch in any situation other than MYLO is bad for town and I was able to prevent a No Lynch from happening where evidently the only other people around were Refa and Omega at the very very last minute

If this is your case, then ok. Your case on me revolves around the following ideas:

1. If I wanted to not associate myself with a Mislynch, I could have just as easily not switched votes and kept it on Tiny. Hell, I could've just not appeared, and feigned the afk card. Instead, I stuck my neck out to do something to bring info to the game
2. I would have picked the moment of hammering Mancer as the moment to out my role, which as far as I know had been kept secret until this point in time
   1. Speaking of, my role is bad for scum anyway because my vote isn't hidden and therefore I'm immediately tied to any situation like this, but that's GameSpec and is difficult to assess anyway
   2. There would be no benefit to me outing my second vote. If I'm scum, why would I out it [then] instead of pocketing it until a wayyyyyyyy more optimal time?
3. I would have parked a vote on whom you would only be able to assume now is my buddy, and would have also
4. You would have to assume that your votehop on Town!Mancer was founded with great reasoning, which in hindsight was acceptable, but not spectacular, given the flip

---

Do you see how not-valid the "I'm town" thing is? That's what you're doing to me and it's just filler fluff bro. I don't have your RolePM and I'm assuming that the entirety of the rest of the game doesn't, so using it as a means of self-defense is just bad.

[Elieson]

##Unvote

##Unvote

##Vote Baldrick

##Vote Baldrick

I'm content on this.

I am also now scumreading Dreamer > Shin, since Dreamer is the logic of

On this moment i think that you are my biggest scum read, and thus i would sheep the case on you. Honestly, you are the only one i could vote for this day.

I know it isn’t a lot, but for now i’m happy it is something. When i'm home again i'll probarly make another post.

is deplorable.

Also @SniperKnight

Apparently lynching > not lynching, as a rule of thumb? I'll unvote if I'm screwing things up.

There were like 48 hours in the day aka 2/3 of the day remained. Since there's no nighttalk, if you had hammered me, the majority of the phase aka discussion time would be cut. That's how town hunts scum. It removes a valuable tool from town, especially when the person you are trying to lynch has no alignment proven. Given that knowledge; How would you react if I flipped scum? How would you react if I flipped town? You don't have to answer this, it's mainly for you to think about

[Shin]

My own role will make sense very shortly.

[spoiler=Prepare yourselves]

There's no way that I'd have known Baldrick had to post about 60's Spiderman unless we were some crazy scum duo. LG had some fun wwith Refa on N1, and then Eli on N2. He was kinda boring N3 and didn't do anything.

Can I ask where the scumread's coming from, Baldrick? I can't really see where it's coming from, other than not liking my initial post. Is there anything about LG that you didn't like?

[Shin]

Ninja'd by Eli, I'm really not liking the defensive nature of his double Baldrick vote. Eli's priorities are still jumping about massively, his votes seem to go anywhere depending on who's casing him and what his mood's like.

[Elieson]

Again & Lastly;

OK, I still don't get your case. She responded to my queries here and here. She did not answer my follow-up query asking her to elaborate on her Sniper read. Those questions had nothing to do with her read on me, so what is your logic in saying her neglecting to answers those questions makes her "noobscum being really cautious about giving their buddies a bad rap in thread." ?

Just look at the quality of her responses to you.

(Her responses are in bold)

Would you mind elaborating on that? Were the words that pinged you the ones that made you think she was being overly cautious? Did her recent posts make you change your opinion on her earlier posts, or did you just get a stronger read off the recent posts?
Not exactly, although her words were worded slightly weirdly which made me jump to that conclusion. And her recent posts just made me give her a stronger read. I still find them a bit strange but I'm still taking into account that she is still new to mafia.
What reasons can you think of that she might make barebones posts? Would those reasons make her more likely to be town or scum? Given what we know about her night results now, what do you think of the way she claimed it on Day 2?
Looking through her ISO, I can believe that she might have been afraid to give her entire opinion on everyone. As a result I'm more inclined to believe that she is scum. The way she said it on day two bothered me, but we now know that Mancer is an Announcer with a PR. Also, we know that he was roleblocked on N1, giving it why Sniper had no results that night. It still doesn't necessarily clear him of which side he is on.
Were you aware of how much time was left in the phase? You first asked him for reads on Day 1, what made you decide to do so? You had to prompt him again two days after that, how did that affect the answer he gave you?
I was mildly aware of it, but even so I still was out of time to make a good post. I just didn't like the fact he skimmed over my question and perhaps a couple of others, and even so he didn't answer it fully.

What logic is here. All that happened was:

1. You said elaborate. She waffled
2. You asked for reasons for things. She waffled.
3. You asked her about time. She waffled even on that.

---

Her response is the quote reply

@Tiny: If Sniper's claim on D2 bothered you, why did it feel genuine to you?
Were you planning to come back to vote before the end of the phase?
If you had to guess, what do you think Sniper's motive for claiming and stopping Mancer's lynch was?

I was coming back to vote before the end of the phase, but then again I had some hiccups towards the end if you really wanted to know my mother took my tablet away for the whole time nearing the end of D2 and thus how I ended up having a wagon.
Her motive? I can't speak for others but I can only guess that she truly did believe her results.
RE: Bolded: It's because they at least claimed, and that was really the most and only information that she gave. She also targeted me N2, which I can't blame her since I was extremely absent for most of that day.

1. The first unbolded question doesn't tell us anything, and her answer doesn't either. It's an entirely irrelevant question to begin with
2. The second unbolded question wasn't even an answer at all
3. The bolded question is like the only thing she did answer with some sort of actual stuff.

[Elieson]

Ninja'd by Eli, I'm really not liking the defensive nature of his double Baldrick vote. Eli's priorities are still jumping about massively, his votes seem to go anywhere depending on who's casing him and what his mood's like.

Nah, I'm committed to scum!Baldrick and becoming less committed to scum!you since you're posting more and your content isn't bad. I might be heated right now due to the Baldrick thing and taking a bit of it out on a Dreamer read but can you look at Dreamer's contentment to park a vote on me and find it totally cool? Please, at least review that and make sense of it. A sheep park with this much time left in phase seems a bit unecessary

[Dreamer]

Yeah, weekend! Finally.

Elieson, you make things very hard for me. You are wayyyy to confident in your last post, but on a good manner. It made me re-think my opnion about you. Your double vote on Baldrick is also understandable, even though it seems to be very defensive.

Maybe you guys were already thinking this, i don’t care, but i do now higly believe that Baldrick and Elieson can not be scum together.

I also do believe that Shin and Baldrick can not be scum together.

Baldrick: You were stating earlier that you would like to make a case on Shin because he was your number one scumread. What made you believe that he was your number one scumread? Is it still because of Lord Gaius? What were the theories you had about him earlier?

Shin: Is it true that you claimed PR giver? I could not find it.

[Baldrick]

@Shin; I'll give you the botd since you read the thread all at once. here. explanation in my dreamer reply.

I don't see any scum intent from you personally. You may think it's unfair to be scumread based off a predessecor, but I think it's unfair to ask for a sub and then disappear without answering cases on you. Gaius has been on since I made that case.

@dreamer; my two theories on Gaius' post:

1) He thought Tiny and I were scum trying to mislynch town Mancer. If that was the case, why did he continue voting Mancer?

2. He thought Tiny and I were scum bussing Mancer. It's safe to say this is the more outlandish theory, and it needs far more elaboration than "look at Baldrick".

Spiderman is groovy because he wears red and existed in the 60's.

[Baldrick]

@Shin; I'll give you the botd since you read the thread all at once. here. explanation in my dreamer reply.

I don't see any scum intent from you personally. You may think it's unfair to be scumread based off a predessecor, but I think it's unfair to ask for a sub and then disappear without answering cases on you. Gaius has been on since I made that case.

@dreamer; my two theories on Gaius' post:

1) He thought Tiny and I were scum trying to mislynch town Mancer. If that was the case, why did he continue voting Mancer?

2. He thought Tiny and I were scum bussing Mancer. It's safe to say this is the more outlandish theory, and it needs far more elaboration than "look at Baldrick".

Spiderman is groovy because he wears red and existed in the 60's.

[Mitsuki]

If something goes wrong, blame Vhaltz [Votals 5.2]

Elieson (3): Refa, Baldrick, Sniper Knight

Baldrick (2): Elieson, Elieson

Dreamer (1): Yolowsag

Not voting: Dreamer, Shin, JBCWK

21 hours and a half until the Batrewedding and Batredivorce! I can't wait! It takes 5 votes to lynch someone.

[Mitsuki]

Yoloswag has been prodded

[Baldrick]

I'll try to cover the most important points only, nobody wants to read a gigantic wallpost

you keep flipping my argument around and defending yourself with meta assumptions and meta assertions.

You said "I don't know what youd do but I certainly think u are capable of bussing." On what basis do you think that?

and if you meant this by the Leap, you probably mean this:

No, I meant this

Those questions had nothing to do with her read on me, so what is your logic in saying her neglecting to answers those questions makes her "noobscum being really cautious about giving their buddies a bad rap in thread." ?

1. I'm town and I wouldn't just appear out of the blue to both defend & hammer a buddy

2. Nobody was around on the developing wagon

3. If I kept voting for Tiny, there is absolutely no reason for me to assume that a lynch would have occurred because nobody was around and my additional vote would not have hammered

4. A No Lynch in any situation other than MYLO is bad for town and I was able to prevent a No Lynch from happening where evidently the only other people around were Refa and Omega at the very very last minute

1. Are you being serious here?

2. I know for a fact I was around. Green and Gaius had made posts recently. None of those three were against lynching Tiny, so there's no reason to assume they wouldn't hang around for phase end.

3. There was 43 minutes left in the phase when you hammered. You could have easily doubled on Tiny, and then hammered Mancer if there remained no interest.

4. Failing to lynch is a UL. So you have no reason to assume that so many people would skip phase end when there's no consensus on the lynch yet.

Just look at the quality of her responses to you.

Yeah, she didn't give me a straight answer on her Mancer and Sniper reads. She could easily have elaborated on them without mentioning her read on me.

So why do you think her unwillingness to analyse Mancer and Sniper was because she didn't want to give a read on me?

@Everyone: if you still have doubts about me, please speak up within 12 hours. I have made my feelings on the lynch clear, and phase end is at 7 am Sunday for me. 60s Spiderman told me I should sleep in, what a swell guy. Most memes are arrogant pricks when you meet them IRL, but he's so down to earth.

[Refa]

Sorry, some things came up (one of which was Smash Bros.) and I was unable to finish this post. The fact that you are reading this post means that yes, I was able to finish it. Congratulations, me. You're the best.

Actually thinking about it some more, something does bother me about Dreamer. Assuming the roleblocker is scum (if they're town, then they should fucking claim it already), why would scum choose to roleblock Dreamer and decoy Sniper instead of the other way around? The same end goal would be accomplished AND it would make Tiny look better in the long run. So I'm thinking either 1) town roleblocker, which is the most likely explanation or 2) Dreamer is scum faking being blocked. Would like additional thoughts on this.

Like ok I admit it's not the best read but IMO unless you're a really good scum player, you're gonna have a hard time casing non-scum and you're probably better off just saying like one/two things just to test the waters since no scum wants to make other scum look bad unless they're SB or Paperblade or Prims

tbh I haven't read much of Dreamer until I saw interactions of other peolple talking about Dreamer here and there, and I haven't ISO'd dreamer beyond ?her? most recent post because lazy and stuff and I'm basically sold on the Firefighter claim because I'm 100% sure that Mits and I talked about countermeasures to Arsonists because they're like her favorite role in the world next to epicmafia agents. Considering I didn't ISO anybody like at all until this phase started since I'm a Slifer Slacker, idk

Can you explain the first portion?

Okay, fair enough. I thought it was pretty scummy for you to drop a scumread without any updates whatsoever, but I can kind of get that if it was based on her roleclaim.

Question, does your role turn off during MYLO/LYLO? If you're reading this post, just answer this question first in a seperate post before getting to the rest of it.

Elie, like I said before, I think your overall Baldrick case is good (sheepable even). You initially defended it well, and I can get why the primary focus of your case wouldn't change (if I'm not mistaken, it's TG's responses to Baldrick over his responses to her), but it seems like you're just ignoring (willfully or otherwise) all reasons for there for Baldrick to be town. I can't tell why you'd be so one sided (you're scum trying to survive by getting the vote off of you, you and Baldrick are scum mutually bussing each other considering that you're both on the chopping block and the interactions would greatly help you out, you're town who's been forced into the mindset after scum Baldrick has repeatedly been defending himself, you're both town who've decided to tunnel on each other which is why there are huge wallposts, etc.) and it's why my vote is on you at least (because the scum motivations make more sense to me over the town motivations).

Baldrick's in a similar boat but probably worse in that all of his recent posts have been defense with little content otherwise (this wasn't scummy until his latest wherein multiple other people had posted since then) . I'm more inclined to believe him because uh...his role makes more sense as town. Yes, it's not provable and is functionally a vanilla, but why wouldn't he just claim vanilla if that were the case? It just seems like something Mitsuki would put in. I asked him about sending messages to the ITP because he could have confirmed that there was an ITP at the beginning of the game as town whereas Scum!Him wouldn't do so. Actually, really the only way I can see his claim being scum is if it's there to allow mafia to be able to communicate with said ITP (so they don't crossfire all night every night and screw each other over).

Still going through the last two pages but I really want Elieson to answer the bolded question.

[Elieson]

You said "I don't know what youd do but I certainly think u are capable of bussing." On what basis do you think that?

Baldrick, you are not a good player. You are also a very erratic player. Casing you on Meta is bad but you know fundamentals of mafia.

No, I meant this

Ahh. This gets back to my point of TG never said anything about having a read on you, which is something newbscum very often do

1. Are you being serious here?

2. I know for a fact I was around. Green and Gaius had made posts recently. None of those three were against lynching Tiny, so there's no reason to assume they wouldn't hang around for phase end.

3. There was 43 minutes left in the phase when you hammered. You could have easily doubled on Tiny, and then hammered Mancer if there remained no interest.

4. Failing to lynch is a UL. So you have no reason to assume that so many people would skip phase end when there's no consensus on the lynch yet.

1. No, I'm intentionally defending myself in a way that you defended yourself, to help illuminate you on how not-good it is

2. I had no idea you were here [and how could I or anybody possibly know this]. Also their posts were 20 minutes prior to mine and they weren't active in any way

3. & 4.Ugh I'll give you this one. I legit thought it was gonna end at 3:30 my time not 4. Activity seemed sparse (like 10-20 minutes between most posts)

Yeah, she didn't give me a straight answer on her Mancer and Sniper reads. She could easily have elaborated on them without mentioning her read on me.

So why do you think her unwillingness to analyse Mancer and Sniper was because she didn't want to give a read on me?

It read like auto-pilot answers. I can't explain why she didn't fabricate reads.

She did answer your questions.

She did not answer them well.She did not post a single read on you all game.

Lemme respond to your questions with another question. How do you explain her not posting a single read on you, or even a passing comment on not having a read on you, all game?

[Elieson]

@Refa My double vote is always available. There is no mention of *YLO in my RolePM, nor is there any type of restriction mentioned whatsoever.

[Elieson]

Can you explain the first portion?

Basically; Newer players who roll scum are generally either really bad at forcing reads, or just ignore buddies in general because they don't know what to say about them.

but it seems like you're just ignoring (willfully or otherwise) all reasons for there for Baldrick to be town

Can you outline some for me that aren't [Role]?

[Elieson]

Also 2:18am. I'm going to bed. Tomorrow I'll be locked to Mobile for most of the day so my responses likely won't include multiquotes and URLs just throwing that out there

[Baldrick]

@Elieson

I'm not a good player, but I'm capable of bussing? OK.

If you can use meta to attack me, why can't I use it in response to that point?

So what suggests I'm a buddy? If newbscum would lack reads on just buddies, can you tell me what her read on GP was?

1. That's not the way I defended myself. I specifically referred to my meta to explain why my behaviour would not make sense for scum!me. I did not just say "scum wouldn't be scummy so I must be town!"

2. You can hover your mouse over my name, or check my profile. That will tell you the last time someone was active (unless they're a jerk who sets it to private).

You've changed your contention from tiny ignoring me to tiny isn't answering me well,so that's more accurate.

She may have been intimidated by my pressure, she may have been unable to think of a natural-sounding read. She lacked reads on a lot of people.

blah blah spiderman memes are cool

[Shin]

I'd have to agree with Refa about Eli ignoring the possibility of Baldrick being town, it's really one-track minded and he's seemingly abandoned his other reads to tunnel in on Baldrick. Not saying that Eli doesn't do this as town, but some of his points about Baldrick, including the "you're not good at mafia", seem more like attacks than cases.

##Vote: Elieson

Also,