Transformation Gauge or Dragon/Beast Stone

[MCProductions]

Well, since I'm curious, I'd thought I'd figure out Serenes' preferred method of handling shapeshifting units such as Manaketes or Laguz in FE games

Method A: Dragon/Beast Stone

Pros: constant Stat buffs, generally among the more powerful weapons in the game without forgeing

Cons: stones are very rare, with several games only giving you one to work with. Limited durability in most games.

Method B: Transformation gauge

Pros: Transformation gives movement bonuses in addition to other stats, I'm not sure but I believe the stats boosts while transformed are higher than those of stones. It's been a while since I've played Tellius, so my memory is foggy there

Cons: Stat buffs only apply when transformed, one either has to wait several turns to transform again, let themselves in their weakened state be attacked several times, or use a item to boost the meter in order to transform back into animal form and thus get their stat buffs back

My personal preference is Stones, due how much more reliable they are IMO, but I'm curious as to everyone else's preferred transformation method from a game mechanics perspective.

[Azz]

I've always preferred the Laguz system since it always felt for realistic in a way(If that is even a word you could use). I do like stones I just don't like how rare they are and also they tend to make characters a bit to overpowered e.g. any good fathered Nah where as with Laguz, they always tend to have some form of weakness and are not always overpowered even though they can be.

[Phantom037]

I prefer the transformation gauge system. It's a completely unique mechanic that you could manipulate with olivi grass or untransformed meatshielding, which feels much more creative than some rock that works basically the same as any other weapon. That said, I don't think it would work very well outside of Tellius, because having a totally different set of rules for like 3 units would be kind of weird and off putting.

[Dragoncat]

If I were making a romhack/fangame with shapeshifters, I'd use neither. I'd just let them stay shifted all the time and give them stats similar to non shapeshifting units...which is even more realistic than the gauge imo. In a few convos in the Tellius games its implied that the laguz can shift forms whenever they want. There is nothing about "they only shift when the energy/whatever of battle is high enough". An example is in RD beginning of part 3, where Oscar is cooking and Lethe and Mordecai go hunting for more meat. Since there's no mention of laguz using beorc weapons to hunt I think they can just pick what form they want to be in and be in it for as long as they want/need to.

[bookofholsety]

In a few convos in the Tellius games its implied that the laguz can shift forms whenever they want. There is nothing about "they only shift when the energy/whatever of battle is high enough". An example is in RD beginning of part 3, where Oscar is cooking and Lethe and Mordecai go hunting for more meat.Since there's no mention of laguz using beorc weapons to hunt I think they can just pick what form they want to be in and be in it for as long as they want/need to. Since there's no mention of laguz using beorc weapons to hunt I think they can just pick what form they want to be in and be in it for as long as they want/need to.

not really

Nailah: As you know, we laguz fight only in our shifted forms. However, we can’t remain in that state for very long. It is too exhausting. Volug, however, has halfshifted. When he does this, he can remain in beast form all day long.

Micaiah: Queen Nailah, I appreciate you help–

Nailah: He is not as strong in this transitional form. Even so, he is still more than a match for any beorc.

Skrimir: How are the injured holding up?

Ranulf: They’re exhausted. Some are so bad off they can’t even get up the energy to transform. The unwounded soldiers have been taking turns carrying the injured.

as far as the hunting thing goes, bear in mind that they'd spent the entire conversation in their humanoid state so it checks out that they'd have been rested enough to transform at will

Edited October 26, 2015 by bookofholsety

[Dragoncat]

Oh. How did I miss that. Well, I suppose then they can transform at will most of the time, but not all the time.

[maybe]

transformation gauges because the beast/dragonstones are basically just regular weapons

[Magical Glace]

One of the few things FE13 did right was the approach to Dragonstones. You can buy them, though they are expensive, and there's no silly meter nonsense.

The problem with FE13 stones is they're kinda generic. If there's multiple kinds like in Marth's games and they're buyable, that would be the best route.

[sirmola]

I don't like transformation gauges because they are a fiddly mechanic that just makes the game needlessly complicated while not helping the core experience, whereas stones are enough like normal weapons for this to not be an issue. Additionaly, stones theoreticaly allow for strategic variety by having a bunch of stones that function entirely differently (although fe12 was the only one that did this and the divine stone was optimal 90% of the time anyway, which meant everything else was to save uses, except for the mage stone, occasionally).

[sirmola]

Ignore the double post

Edited October 26, 2015 by sirmola

[Beelzebub]

I really like the FE3 dragonstones, which I suppose is somewhere in-between the two.

[Shadow Mir]

Stones, easily - transformation bars only really made the game needlessly complicated, and had a ton of problems.

[Refa]

I really like the FE3 dragonstones, which I suppose is somewhere in-between the two.

This, although transformation gauges were infinitely more interesting than what amounts to "normal weapons but way better". Although I do think it was really cool how FE1 dragonstones had infinite uses, which helped make the few dragons you get feel more...legendary.

[secondworld]

I liked FE3/12 the best in regards to this with how there were different kinds of dragon stones and they could be bought(albeit via a secret shop). Although...

This, although transformation gauges were infinitely more interesting than what amounts to "normal weapons but way better". Although I do think it was really cool how FE1 dragonstones had infinite uses, which helped make the few dragons you get feel more...legendary.

I would've preferred the infinite uses to remain a thing.

[NekoKnight]

The transformation gauge made it difficult to determine when your character would be able to fight and made them extremely vulnerable when outside their beast form, not to mention PoR's implementation which made them transform whether you wanted them too or not.

Stones are rather boring in their current (Awakening/Fates) form but there is plenty of ways you could make them interesting. Stones with effective properties, ranged options, lower damage but improved defenses, etc. I think it would be neat to have their damage improve with weapon rank, just like Laguz weapons in Radiant Dawn.

[Hatsuoki]

I much prefer the Dragon/Beast stones. I hated the transformation gauge so much that I ended up dropping all the Laguz I was trying to use.

[Robert Stewart]

Do both, like in FE3.

Non infinite-use stones always really feel "too awesome to use" for my tastes. Though I guess making them purchasable remedies that somewhat.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I never really cared for the Laguz transformation gauge. I hated having to either wait an eternity to shift, or risk letting them be attacked (and possibly killed) to shift. I prefer the Dragon/Beast stones...although I don't like how limited they can be.

[Ryo]

The transformation gauge made it difficult to determine when your character would be able to fight and made them extremely vulnerable when outside their beast form, not to mention PoR's implementation which made them transform whether you wanted them too or not.

They can implement it like Fates' Guard Stance gauge. I personally don't mind it as long as the unit isn't utterly useless and/or defenseless when untransformed. They can give them alternate weapons to use when in human form (like sword, magic etc.), sort of like Kamui.

But generally I prefer stones (but only when they're purchasable or unlimited), though I wish they could come up with something creative to expand the current system.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

I like the way FE3 does it, use dragonstone --> transform for x amount of turns.

The problem with FE13 stones is they're kinda generic. If there's multiple kinds like in Marth's games and they're buyable, that would be the best route.

In one secret shop you need warp to get to. (in FE3/12) (Not disagreeing or anything, just kinda... commenting lol)

Edited October 27, 2015 by L95

[MCProductions]

I'll join on the FE3 method of handleing it love train, considering how much else FE6 borrows and flat out steals in the character department from FE3, I wonder why they went back to the old system, but gave them durability like FE3 anyway

[NekoKnight]

They can implement it like Fates' Guard Stance gauge. I personally don't mind it as long as the unit isn't utterly useless and/or defenseless when untransformed. They can give them alternate weapons to use when in human form (like sword, magic etc.), sort of like Kamui.

But generally I prefer stones (but only when they're purchasable or unlimited), though I wish they could come up with something creative to expand the current system.

Another way to do it would be to let them transform freely but have their beast/dragon stone give them debuffs that recover over time, like Fates' silver weapons.They could keep their stats while un-transformed but they'd be unable to attack. If they stay in beast form, the stats would recover slowly but if you returned to human form. fhey'd recover quickly.

[sirmola]

Another way to do it would be to let them transform freely but have their beast/dragon stone give them debuffs that recover over time, like Fates' silver weapons.They could keep their stats while un-transformed but they'd be unable to attack. If they stay in beast form, the stats would recover slowly but if you returned to human form. fhey'd recover quickly.

THat actualy sounds like a ggod idea. The main issue that i had with FE9-10's implementation was that fact that the player had zero control over when their unit was halfway usable.

[Anacybele]

Transformation gauge please. The beast/dragonstones are too limited most of the time, especially pre-Awakening. And you have to spend money on them. You don't have to spend as much money on laguz. They just need a vulnerary and they're good. Although, I don't like how the laguz got hit with the nerf bat in RD. At least make Laguz Stones and Olivi Grass more accessible and available, geez...

Edited October 27, 2015 by Anacybele

[MCProductions]

Transformation gauge please. The beast/dragonstones are too limited most of the time, especially pre-Awakening. And you have to spend money on them. You don't have to spend as much money on laguz. They just need a vulnerary and they're good. Although, I don't like how the laguz got hit with the nerf bat in RD. At least make Laguz Stones and Olivi Grass more accessible and available, geez...

It's funny, I always spent more gold on Laguz for Olivi grass than I did on pre Awakening Manaketes. For their limited uses, I slap the Starsphere on Tiki and go to town, while Myrrh had more than enough uses for me. Fae was the only Manakete where limited uses concerned me, but thats one example in the series I can come up with.

Edited October 27, 2015 by MCProductions