Lowen.

[sandmanccl]

Yes. I have to add to this.

Astrid requires far too much work to get to a useable point for her to be worth it. You spend far more effort getting her competent than you save later in the game. She got horribly nerfed in RD. No longer does she supply the Knight Ward, and have an OK join situation. She now isn't even special for Paragon, because you can rip it off her and put it on a better character.

All of that means absolutely nothing to me, though. Reasons being that, due to the way the game is layed out, you'll always have enough good characters to get through every map. How a character works in end-game is the only thing that you can really debate and argue about because before that, everyone has their role that they fit. And I mean absolutely everyone.

Astrid can use the Double Bow and has a higher max speed than other paladins. I don't put a lot of stock into strict interpretations of average stats because bonus experience levels totally throw them out the window. She'll cap speed if you do it even a level or two after she maxes her better stats. Makalov is pretty damn good end-game (much better than the other gold knights, for certain) because you can give him the Alondite. He won't be double-attacking much, but ehhh. You only really need a handful of guys that can double-attack the final two maps in order to beat it without a hitch, because even if you can't, a healer or two should cover the insignificant damage you're likely to recieve.

The only person who's join conditions are next to impossible to overcome is Fiona, and Gareth is pointless. They are the only, and I mean absolutely only units in FE10 that aren't worth the time and effort even on third and fourth playthroughs.

[_____]

If you really aren't good with bow users, here's an easy way for Astrid: Attack an enemy, have her bail with Canto. She's got Paragon, so she'll gain levels at about the same pace as anyone else, and soon enough she should be able to hold her own. And Astrid takes half as much BEXP as anyone else; As if it matters when BEXP is so overly abundant in RD.

I agree on the overall nerfing, though their caps is what really get them. Astrid, and possibly Fiona, are the only ones really good enough for endgame, and really only because they have better speed and luck caps, and skill in Astrid's case. I won't go into Fiona. Her joining conditions are just terrible, even for me.

Being able to cause almost no damage until she promotes is terrible, and she's got bows, the worst weapons in the game until she promotes. As the other guys and gals noted, she's extremely hard to level up, especially on Hard Mode, where the BEXP isn't as abundant.

Also, lol at Fiona and Astrid being the only good Paladins. Titania and Oscar are much better.

All of that means absolutely nothing to me, though. Reasons being that, due to the way the game is layed out, you'll always have enough good characters to get through every map. How a character works in end-game is the only thing that you can really debate and argue about because before that, everyone has their role that they fit. And I mean absolutely everyone.

Astrid can use the Double Bow and has a higher max speed than other paladins. I don't put a lot of stock into strict interpretations of average stats because bonus experience levels totally throw them out the window. She'll cap speed if you do it even a level or two after she maxes her better stats. Makalov is pretty damn good end-game (much better than the other gold knights, for certain) because you can give him the Alondite. He won't be double-attacking much, but ehhh. You only really need a handful of guys that can double-attack the final two maps in order to beat it without a hitch, because even if you can't, a healer or two should cover the insignificant damage you're likely to recieve.

The only person who's join conditions are next to impossible to overcome is Fiona, and Gareth is pointless. They are the only, and I mean absolutely only units in FE10 that aren't worth the time and effort even on third and fourth playthroughs.

Shinon or Rolf want the Double Bow more than Astrid and Oscar also has good speed compared to the other Paladins. The difference is that he has lances before promotion and can actually deal damage. What does Makalov have to do with this?

[Florete]

Being able to cause almost no damage until she promotes is terrible, and she's got bows, the worst weapons in the game until she promotes. As the other guys and gals noted, she's extremely hard to level up, especially on Hard Mode, where the BEXP isn't as abundant.

Also, lol at Fiona and Astrid being the only good Paladins. Titania and Oscar are much better.

Shinon or Rolf want the Double Bow more than Astrid and Oscar also has good speed compared to the other Paladins. The difference is that he has lances before promotion and can actually deal damage. What does Makalov have to do with this?

I said good enough for endgame. The others will have tougher times dodging and doubling, and living when it comes to their lower resistance cap. She isn't tough to level if you know how to do it, and bows are possibly making things easier. And she'll be doing significant damage at about level 10, if not earlier.

Shinon and Rolf only have more range, but Astrid has a horse, so things even out. Sol is arguably just as good as or better than Deadeye.

[CGV]

I just read the title. Did you change it or did I just not notice it? because Lowen for me is not hax...

[Just call me AL]

Meh, Sain and Kent are pretty much all I need, since Lowen didn't fit my play style.

[Reikken]

I said good enough for endgame. The others will have tougher times dodging and doubling, and living when it comes to their lower resistance cap. She isn't tough to level if you know how to do it, and bows are possibly making things easier. And she'll be doing significant damage at about level 10, if not earlier.

No, they're plenty good enough for endgame. They may not be as good as a stat-up-abused/level-up-abused/superlucky-on-levelups Astrid or Fiona, but they are certainly "good enough".

[_____]

I said good enough for endgame. The others will have tougher times dodging and doubling, and living when it comes to their lower resistance cap. She isn't tough to level if you know how to do it, and bows are possibly making things easier. And she'll be doing significant damage at about level 10, if not earlier.

Shinon and Rolf only have more range, but Astrid has a horse, so things even out. Sol is arguably just as good as or better than Deadeye.

Why train a unit that's ONLY good enough at the endgame? Makalov, Titania, Oscar, AND possibly Kieran will never have tough times doubling/dodging come endgame, AND they're consistantly powerful throught the game. They don't need babying. "If you know how to do it"? Does that mean to give her mooch kills that the other Knights desperatly need? You're better off letting Marcia or Makalov kill thier enemies instead of letting Astrid steal the kills. Bows are terrible. I could understand if you said that Magic makes it easier, but bows have no direct attack, which is horrid. Level 10 promoted, maybe! She'll gain 3 strength in those 8 levels. BIG difference there, amirite?

Shinon and Rolf are also avalible to most of the game, compared to the Crimean Knights, who dissapear. In that time, they'll get a Silencer, which will help A LOT and gain a whole hell of a lot of levels. More than likely, they'll promote by the time you actually get the Crimean Knights back. Astrid will be severly underleveled, so it doesn't matter if Sol is as good/better than Deadeye. She'll never use it.

I just read the title. Did you change it or did I just not notice it? because Lowen for me is not hax...

It's always been Lowen. PEMN.

[Reikken]

so it doesn't matter if Sol is as good/better than Deadeye. She'll never use it.

wtf

If you're using Astrid, of course she'll use Sol.

Also, Sol makes me a sad panda. skl/2? NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo................

[_____]

wtf

If you're using Astrid, of course she'll use Sol.

Also, Sol makes me a sad panda. skl/2? NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo................

I meant that she would be severly underleveled, and wouldn't be able to use it because she's not tier 3.

[Reikken]

She won't be able to use it right away, of course, but she's obviously going to gain enough levels to promote if you're using her.

[_____]

I meant by the time you get her back in Part 3. By then, Shinon and maybe even Rolf may be tier 3, so they at least have a chance to pull Deadeye.

[Reikken]

Oh, I see.

Then you should have clarified or shouldn't have said "never".

[_____]

I see how that sentence could have been confusing. I said never to show that she would be unable to activate it.

[Defeatist Elitist]

All of that means absolutely nothing to me, though. Reasons being that, due to the way the game is layed out, you'll always have enough good characters to get through every map. How a character works in end-game is the only thing that you can really debate and argue about because before that, everyone has their role that they fit. And I mean absolutely everyone.

Astrid can use the Double Bow and has a higher max speed than other paladins. I don't put a lot of stock into strict interpretations of average stats because bonus experience levels totally throw them out the window. She'll cap speed if you do it even a level or two after she maxes her better stats. Makalov is pretty damn good end-game (much better than the other gold knights, for certain) because you can give him the Alondite. He won't be double-attacking much, but ehhh. You only really need a handful of guys that can double-attack the final two maps in order to beat it without a hitch, because even if you can't, a healer or two should cover the insignificant damage you're likely to recieve.

The only person who's join conditions are next to impossible to overcome is Fiona, and Gareth is pointless. They are the only, and I mean absolutely only units in FE10 that aren't worth the time and effort even on third and fourth playthroughs.

Astrid can use the Double Bow. Shinon can too. And he has increased range. And good stats. And comes excellent. And blah blah blah. I agree that Makalov is good though.

As to your last point, well, this is what I'll say. I often use sub par or very bad units when I play the game. I've used Fiona. I simply think that some characters are MUCH harder to use than others.

[Florete]

Astrid will easily be a good unit by the Marauders chapter if you've used her, and I don't mean with consistent babying. I feel like you're underestimating Paragon's value. Paragon + Blossom = Win, and Astrid should be high enough by that time that she can handle the cut in experience.

Shinon's increased range means nothing in the face of Astrid's horse, except for fighting Dheginsea and Auras. Don't get me wrong, Shinon is a great character, easily the best Marksman.

[sandmanccl]

As the term "best" is subjective, I can see where you're coming from. To you, the person who is easiest to use and still ends up great is the best. That's fine. To me, I don't really mind someone being difficult to level up so long as they turn out amazing, and Astrid's amazing is better than Kieran/Titania/Oscar/Makalov's amazing because she gets a better weapon to use and has enough speed to be a bigger threat for the most stat-intensive part of the game.

I personally find her EASIER to use than the other paladins because her innate paragon means she gains a level every 3 turns even if she only does 1 damage to the guy she's attacking, or a level every turn if she gets a kill. They all have about the same playtime, but she has the potential to increase the most significantly during that time compared to the others.

Playing through the game with who you want to use in the end in mind before you set out makes the game go a lot smoother. For one, anyone else becomes a throwaway unit. It doesn't really matter if they die (unless they have some sort of uber item they give you during a cutscene later). It also means that the ones you are planning on using will be able to get the majority of the experience out there meaning they will be significantly more powerful during End-Game than just going through the game using whomever is "best" for a task at some specific point and time.

In regards to Shinon, I think he's easily the worst bowman you can get. Leonardo has more intangibles going for him and Rolf is absurdly powerful.

ON TOPIC NOW

Lowen is great. He's the only non-Oswin/Hector unit with reliable defense gains, which is my most valued stat. Considering most the units are pretty average in every area, he doesn't fall too far behind in strength/speed/skill.

Edited October 3, 2008 by sandmanccl

[DeSu]

I hope Masu lends me PoR soon so I can understand this stuff -__-...

Anyways, this topic needs moar Lowin.

Lvl 5 Pally

46 hp

17 str

13 skill

17 spd

16 luck

20 def

10 res

He didn't gain for 4 lvls in def :(... But his other stats are now decent :D!

[Tino]

You don't call 20 Defense good?

You have a true low1n there and you don't like his Defense? get a life

[DeSu]

Lol, you misunderstand. I LOVE his defense. I just want moar! Because moar!!!!

[_____]

Astrid will easily be a good unit by the Marauders chapter if you've used her, and I don't mean with consistent babying. I feel like you're underestimating Paragon's value. Paragon + Blossom = Win, and Astrid should be high enough by that time that she can handle the cut in experience.

Shinon's increased range means nothing in the face of Astrid's horse, except for fighting Dheginsea and Auras. Don't get me wrong, Shinon is a great character, easily the best Marksman.

Paragon + Blossom means that there's no way in hell she'll have gained enough levels to be useable by that chapter unless you made her solo a chapter! Which, might I add, is impossible due to her shitty base stats.

Shinon actually starts out decent, though, and doesn't need to gain 8 levels to become decent.

As the term "best" is subjective, I can see where you're coming from. To you, the person who is easiest to use and still ends up great is the best. That's fine. To me, I don't really mind someone being difficult to level up so long as they turn out amazing, and Astrid's amazing is better than Kieran/Titania/Oscar/Makalov's amazing because she gets a better weapon to use and has enough speed to be a bigger threat for the most stat-intensive part of the game.

I personally find her EASIER to use than the other paladins because her innate paragon means she gains a level every 3 turns even if she only does 1 damage to the guy she's attacking, or a level every turn if she gets a kill. They all have about the same playtime, but she has the potential to increase the most significantly during that time compared to the others.

Playing through the game with who you want to use in the end in mind before you set out makes the game go a lot smoother. For one, anyone else becomes a throwaway unit. It doesn't really matter if they die (unless they have some sort of uber item they give you during a cutscene later). It also means that the ones you are planning on using will be able to get the majority of the experience out there meaning they will be significantly more powerful during End-Game than just going through the game using whomever is "best" for a task at some specific point and time.

In regards to Shinon, I think he's easily the worst bowman you can get. Leonardo has more intangibles going for him and Rolf is absurdly powerful.

ON TOPIC NOW

Lowen is great. He's the only non-Oswin/Hector unit with reliable defense gains, which is my most valued stat. Considering most the units are pretty average in every area, he doesn't fall too far behind in strength/speed/skill.

How are bows great? YOU'VE stated before that they're easily the worst weapons in the game.

You could always transfer that built in Paragon to a unit who's useful for those chapters like Makalov or Kieran.

Shinon is easily best because Leonardo has dreadful speed and Rolf needs babying to become amazing. Shinon starts awesome and ends awesome. Shinon gets the Silencer, too, something that Leonardo doesn't have.

On topic:

I agree. Lowen is one of my faovrite characters in this game.

Edited October 3, 2008 by ChaosNinji

[Florete]

Paragon + Blossom means that there's no way in hell she'll have gained enough levels to be useable by that chapter unless you made her solo a chapter! Which, might I add, is impossible due to her shitty base stats.

Shinon actually starts out decent, though, and doesn't need to gain 8 levels to become decent.

How are bows great? YOU'VE stated before that they're easily the worst weapons in the game.

You can't even equip Blossom to her until the bridge chapter, and by then she's decent enough that she can handle it.

We're really looking at this from different angles; I see what she becomes, you see how she starts. We'll never find a compromise, so we ought to just end it here.

[_____]

You can't even equip Blossom to her until the bridge chapter, and by then she's decent enough that she can handle it.

We're really looking at this from different angles; I see what she becomes, you see how she starts. We'll never find a compromise, so we ought to just end it here.

Only if you baby the hell out of her.

Potential is not the only thing you should consider. It's the same thing with Nino; She's shit when she starts and turns out amazing. The only problem is that it's way too tiring to use her. It's not worth it.

[Florete]

Only if you baby the hell out of her.

Potential is not the only thing you should consider. It's the same thing with Nino; She's shit when she starts and turns out amazing. The only problem is that it's way too tiring to use her. It's not worth it.

Fiona is too tiring to use. Lyre also. Astrid and Nino really aren't hard at all to use, it's just easier to use others. Maybe I just find myself enjoying the idea of raising a lower level character into a killing machine more than others, because those kind of characters tend to be my favorites. They give me more enjoyment out of the game, so they're better in my mind.

Potential is what I consider more than anything; A unit that starts bad/semi-bad but turns out great >>> a unit that starts great but turns out average, in my opinion.

[_____]

Fiona is too tiring to use. Lyre also. Astrid and Nino really aren't hard at all to use, it's just easier to use others. Maybe I just find myself enjoying the idea of raising a lower level character into a killing machine more than others, because those kind of characters tend to be my favorites. They give me more enjoyment out of the game, so they're better in my mind.

Potential is what I consider more than anything; A unit that starts bad/semi-bad but turns out great >>> a unit that starts great but turns out average, in my opinion.

But a unit that starts out great and turns out great >>> All.

[Florete]

But a unit that starts out great and turns out great >>> All.

Yeah, I agree. Like Shinon and Zihark, I love them in Radiant Dawn. These kinds of characters are harder to come by, though. They start good, but that means they also start high, and so have less room to grow.