Unit Practicality Thread

[avengerfive]

+Spd is superfluous for Corrin, who's already really fast. If you really want to use it, something like Cavalier or Dark Mage might be OK.

+Mag/Str is probably the best asset imo.

Edit: Look on the first page for OwnagePuff's post for good MU builds.

Edited February 11, 2016 by OurBoyRoy

[Gwimpage]

+Speed's main draw is that it lets Corrin double things faster and more consistently in the earlygame and post-route split. Like OurBoyRoy (Is that Avengerfive on Reddit? Seemingly like the only dude with the Roy flair anyways) already mentioned its superfluous and you're better off taking a Str/Mag asset.

[avengerfive]

+Speed's main draw is that it lets Corrin double things faster and more consistently in the earlygame and post-route split. Like OurBoyRoy (Is that Avengerfive on Reddit? Seemingly like the only dude with the Roy flair anyways) already mentioned its superfluous and you're better off taking a Str/Mag asset.

You're a smart man Gwimpage. Roy is good I swear. That earlygame Rapier chip damage.

Kinda off-topic but do you plan on getting a capture card and doing Conquest/Birthright LTC's/Speedruns?

[Gwimpage]

I've already roughly routed both Conquest/Birthright, but they're super cheesy because they use Dark Flier since I was in a rush to route both Birthright and Conquest for a submission deadline. I'd love to stream some Speedruns and/or upload LTC runs, but I'm pretty SOL on actually finding someone to sell one.

On-Topic: What would constitute as an optimal Corrin for Lunatic Conquest? I've pushed +Mag/-Lck Cavalier to hell and back, but lately I've been finding myself switching classes for different portions of the game. I think Cavalier has a smooth transition from Dark Prince(ss), but as a midgame class Dark Knight, Strategist, and Malig Knight are all so much better. Corrin can support with various units and use their base classes, which is important because I think your secondary class will usually be lacking that 8Mov and 1-2 range option. Diviner and Ninja both have foot movement and Diviner wants to buddy a sword-wielding class for Yato later on. It's funny because Dark Mage secondary takes large penalties with the reclass, Wyvern adds flier weakness in maps where flight makes minimal impact and they both have fantastic promotion options.

Cavalier secondary can reclass back in the lategame when you want to knuckle down on the final bosses. I'm thinking weighing both of your unpromoted and promoted classes is important and what would you think constitutes as optimal for a faceroll-on-the-3DS-and-things die kind of good? Not sure, but I should probably sleep for a midterm tomorrow. lol

Edited February 11, 2016 by Gwimpage

[astrophys]

Oh, its interesting to hear these commentary on Dark Mage/Dark Knight, as I was planning to run that in Hoshido… you're finding good success with it in Nohr as well, I gather from your above comments….

My biggest concern about Dark Mage/Dark Knight was its speed in a route where we don't have Yato's +SPD bonus (+2 and later +4) helping it out…. your experience shows that its still working really well despite this?

I just really like using sword + tome classes, and Grandmaster won't be available at launch anyways, so Dark Knight is the remaining sword + tome class… if it turns out to be a top pick, that would be exciting….

What parts of Dark Knight are you finding the most beneficial to give it such an edge over the other classes like Cavalier? Would you take it as a Secondary, or would you buddy/marry for Dark Mage instead?

Just wondering….

[Tooru]

+Spd is superfluous for Corrin, who's already really fast. If you really want to use it, something like Cavalier or Dark Mage might be OK.

+Mag/Str is probably the best asset imo.

Edit: Look on the first page for OwnagePuff's post for good MU builds.

+Spd/-Str Corrin is basically a faster Odin with lower HP&Str&Skl&Lck&Def...

[avengerfive]

+Spd/-Str Corrin is basically a faster Odin with lower HP&Str&Skl&Lck&Def...

Ok? I don't think you understood what I was trying to say. +Spd is not needed. +Str/Mag is good.

[Espinosa]

Nina brings nothing different or better for this, unless she gets Wyvern Lord or Paladin from her mother.

Silas has similar or slightly higher Spd than Great Knight Effie. If doubling is a problem and Silas has it, so does Effie.

Peri is faster than both, but we all agree that she is worse.

Nina will not have any weapon ranks other than bows and, if recruited later and child sealed, staves or swords.

In the post of mine you quoted, I did suggest that Effie needs to move down a tier, i.e. be a tier below Silas, so I do not disagree with you there. Effie's other disadvantage, which Silas lacks, is her abysmal movement; however, she can also be mounted when promoted ASAP, has more firepower and can use Javelins instantly.

Pieri is a just rescuebot.

[XeKr]

I've already roughly routed both Conquest/Birthright, but they're super cheesy because they use Dark Flier since I was in a rush to route both Birthright and Conquest for a submission deadline. I'd love to stream some Speedruns and/or upload LTC runs, but I'm pretty SOL on actually finding someone to sell one.

On-Topic: What would constitute as an optimal Corrin for Lunatic Conquest? I've pushed +Mag/-Lck Cavalier to hell and back, but lately I've been finding myself switching classes for different portions of the game. I think Cavalier has a smooth transition from Dark Prince(ss), but as a midgame class Dark Knight, Strategist, and Malig Knight are all so much better. Corrin can support with various units and use their base classes, which is important because I think your secondary class will usually be lacking that 8Mov and 1-2 range option. Diviner and Ninja both have foot movement and Diviner wants to buddy a sword-wielding class for Yato later on. It's funny because Dark Mage secondary takes large penalties with the reclass, Wyvern adds flier weakness in maps where flight makes minimal impact and they both have fantastic promotion options.

Cavalier secondary can reclass back in the lategame when you want to knuckle down on the final bosses. I'm thinking weighing both of your unpromoted and promoted classes is important and what would you think constitutes as optimal for a faceroll-on-the-3DS-and-things die kind of good? Not sure, but I should probably sleep for a midterm tomorrow. lol

Well, many things are possible in the name of the Turncount (and to a different extent, ss Realtime) God. >_>

Generally though, I find highly unreliable strats as inelegant as very slow ones, so I think certain small (statistically inspired) concessions are fine. (I’ll draw a line between this and what has been vaguely referred to as “casual efficiency”, in case that comes up)

Basically I think +Mag Cavalier is probably correct for conventional ltc and no dlc speedruns as you can reset to your heart’s desire any low Spd runs and for Mag benchmarks. I think the secondary class also matters slightly less since you don’t necessarily have to pair with Jakob for more reliable durability on enemy phase and can build support to buddy seal Wyvern/Dark Mage or something from Belka/Nyx.

But does +Mag comfortably double things in Conquest, in terms of easy/quick+reliable clears? I found it doesn’t myself, and I didn’t even use classes with low spd base as Dark/Malig Knight. Averages may say differently (unsure) but unless there’s some points of leeway there’s probably around a 30ish% chance you miss the Spd benchmark which will trash any attempt at efficient/faceroll clears. In practice this probably doesn’t matter because one can use online to buy statboosters or get food or whatever, but the same could be argued for most of the other Corrin setups. ofc Dread Fighters/Dark Falcon, if available, is also kinda steamrolly because of the bases (can even take +Hp/Def for reliability)

So eh, that’s why I was leaning +Spd/-Luck as a general recommendation for Nohr, before (mage build, plus 8 move classes later. I suppose I could see +Str Ninja but how's the durability and lategame?). I haven’t played much the past few months though so maybe there’s been new information re: lunatic runs (how superfluous is it, on average?).

Maybe late, but gl on your exam too.

Edited February 11, 2016 by XeKr

[Thor Odinson]

I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask but I dont' want to make a new thread and it's a bit of an odd request but

Given the context of IK (IK because I want Chalotte to be in on this), and I want to do a hard mode run with characters ending in either promotion line of Oni since it's my favorite class (ideally nogrind, but if I have to cashgrind with units I'm not using only for money to buy parallel seals I'll do that) and so far I have the promotion split as

Blacksmith:

Ryouma (S Rinka)
Marx (S FeMui)

Hinata
Kazahana (S Hinata)

Femui (+Str -Mag or Res probably, depending on how much it bothers me to be called dull)

Shura:
Rinka
Charlotte (A Rinka)

Tsukuyomi

Orochi (A Rinka or S Yomi)

But I have a hard time deciding what's better for Oboro and Kagerou to go into? Neither use any of the 3 possible weapons so it's hard to place them based on weapon ranks.

[avengerfive]

I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask but I dont' want to make a new thread and it's a bit of an odd request but

Given the context of IK (IK because I want Chalotte to be in on this), and I want to do a hard mode run with characters ending in either promotion line of Oni since it's my favorite class (ideally nogrind, but if I have to cashgrind with units I'm not using only for money to buy parallel seals I'll do that) and so far I have the promotion split as

Blacksmith:

Ryouma (S Rinka)

Marx (S FeMui)

Hinata

Kazahana (S Hinata)

Femui (+Str -Mag or Res probably, depending on how much it bothers me to be called dull)

Shura:

Rinka

Charlotte (A Rinka)

Tsukuyomi

Orochi (A Rinka or S Yomi)

But I have a hard time deciding what's better for Oboro and Kagerou to go into? Neither use any of the 3 possible weapons so it's hard to place them based on weapon ranks.

Oboro interestingly has a personal Mag growth of 20%. She might be decent as a Shura Oni Chieftain. Kagerou has base 0% Mag, so take that into consideration. The weapon ranks are just something you are going to have to deal with. Arms scrolls are a thing.

[Thor Odinson]

Oboro interestingly has a personal Mag growth of 20%. She might be decent as a Shura Oni Chieftain. Kagerou has base 0% Mag, so take that into consideration. The weapon ranks are just something you are going to have to deal with. Arms scrolls are a thing.

I might go Shura for Oboro then--though E swords also isn't really useful enough to skew Kagerou one way or the other, I think--considering ultimately Shura has both mag and a strong str stat. I guess I'll run some averages.

Good point on the arms scrolls-Those will definitely go to them.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[Duke of Dozel]

Kagero has classes that uses tomes as a reclass and Master Ninja has swords, so it all depends on which you train in first. Oboro is kinda stuck, sadly, as she loses lances and a 30% magic growth just isnt good enough to justify Oni Chieftain for a nongrind run. She's better off going for Blacksmith.

[Espinosa]

I think Oboro's magic growth makes Falcon Knight all the more desirable through marriage with Subaki...

[Eriotto]

Leo is better offensivly as DK or Sorc?

[Avalanche]

In terms of pure magical offense, I think Sorcerrer would be preferable. However, I think DK"s bulk and mobility might outweigh it. I've heard Leo's fine as long as he can use Brunhilde.

[Tooru]

Leo is better offensivly as DK or Sorc?

As Strategist.

[Eriotto]

As Strategist.

If so, then say why~

[Espinosa]

If so, then say why~

Higher speed? You said "offensively"...

[Eriotto]

Higher speed? You said "offensively"...

ehh, so bad at words lol

From what Leo will benefit the most as units for combat, Sorc, DK or eventually Strategist?

Edited February 12, 2016 by Eriotto

[astrophys]

I think Oboro's magic growth makes Falcon Knight all the more desirable through marriage with Subaki...

Yeah, I think this is a good point…

Oboro has a 20% magic growth, which isn't a great growth by dedicated mage standards. However, it is a decent magic growth for a mainly physical unit, as it might let her abuse a shockstick pretty nicely.

Her Basara gets a 10% class magic growth too, as does Falcon Knight. Basara actually has a higher base magic (5 vs. 4) than Falcon Knight, but the Falcon Knight does get more movement range and is faster….

[Espinosa]

Sorc will crit more often and have a good deal more magic than the other two; however, foot unit movement is a major shortcoming. Vengeance has a very good proc rate (if worse than Awakening) and can contribute to additional damage when Leo has been weakened.

Dark Knight is the slowest but the bulkiest physically. Leo doesn't really care about the ability to use swords since Iron is the best he can use aside from Armorslayer/Wyrmslayer (Axeslayer Katana in Revelation), but he might as well use his Prf tome to one-round the enemy types these effective weapons cover.

Strategist is the fastest of the three but only a tiny bit faster than Sorc. Fails to capram speed on average regardless. Poorest physical bulk by far.

I guess Sorc IS the best option for dishing out damage if you don't care about mobility? Nohr's map design makes mobility important even for non-LTCers.

Other advantages (unrelated to offence) the three classes have would be, for Sorc, Nosferatu access (no doubling or proccing Vengeance with it anymore though), Bowbreaker very late in the game, debuffs and self-healing for Dark Knight and team support with Heal (more variety in staff use possible through taking a long time on the maps and using Arms Scrolls) and Distinguished Son/eventual Battle Command.

[Eriotto]

Sorc will crit more often and have a good deal more magic than the other two; however, foot unit movement is a major shortcoming. Vengeance has a very good proc rate (if worse than Awakening) and can contribute to additional damage when Leo has been weakened.

Dark Knight is the slowest but the bulkiest physically. Leo doesn't really care about the ability to use swords since Iron is the best he can use aside from Armorslayer/Wyrmslayer (Axeslayer Katana in Revelation), but he might as well use his Prf tome to one-round the enemy types these effective weapons cover.

Strategist is the fastest of the three but only a tiny bit faster than Sorc. Fails to capram speed on average regardless. Poorest physical bulk by far.

I guess Sorc IS the best option for dishing out damage if you don't care about mobility? Nohr's map design makes mobility important even for non-LTCers.

Other advantages (unrelated to offence) the three classes have would be, for Sorc, Nosferatu access (no doubling or proccing Vengeance with it anymore though), Bowbreaker very late in the game, debuffs and self-healing for Dark Knight and team support with Heal (more variety in staff use possible through taking a long time on the maps and using Arms Scrolls) and Distinguished Son/eventual Battle Command.

yeah, this one makes me wonder, story-wise DK seems good, however i feel like for min-maxing he need faster class.

stat-wise seems good Butler however he will loose Brunhilde and only one type of weapon he will use correctly will be explosive shurikens which are meh comparing to his pref. weapon.

In one of saves i'll marry him to Sakura so maybe it's the way for him? We'll see then.

So in general for min-maxing should be Sorc/Troubadour from his bases tho.

Edit: Eventually deffensive formation might work for him (pvp mostly)

Edited February 12, 2016 by Eriotto

[Ownagepuffs]

Leo caps spd on average at 20/20 as a Dark Knight with 1 speedwings. His speed is fine when you take into consideration things like Felicia support and tonics. He has no business with Sorc because he already kills everything he doubles and no business as a strategist because RIP enemy phase.

Well, many things are possible in the name of the Turncount (and to a different extent, ss Realtime) God. >_>

Generally though, I find highly unreliable strats as inelegant as very slow ones, so I think certain small (statistically inspired) concessions are fine. (I’ll draw a line between this and what has been vaguely referred to as “casual efficiency”, in case that comes up)

Basically I think +Mag Cavalier is probably correct for conventional ltc and no dlc speedruns as you can reset to your heart’s desire any low Spd runs and for Mag benchmarks. I think the secondary class also matters slightly less since you don’t necessarily have to pair with Jakob for more reliable durability on enemy phase and can build support to buddy seal Wyvern/Dark Mage or something from Belka/Nyx.

But does +Mag comfortably double things in Conquest, in terms of easy/quick+reliable clears? I found it doesn’t myself, and I didn’t even use classes with low spd base as Dark/Malig Knight. Averages may say differently (unsure) but unless there’s some points of leeway there’s probably around a 30ish% chance you miss the Spd benchmark which will trash any attempt at efficient/faceroll clears. In practice this probably doesn’t matter because one can use online to buy statboosters or get food or whatever, but the same could be argued for most of the other Corrin setups. ofc Dread Fighters/Dark Falcon, if available, is also kinda steamrolly because of the bases (can even take +Hp/Def for reliability)

So eh, that’s why I was leaning +Spd/-Luck as a general recommendation for Nohr, before (mage build, plus 8 move classes later. I suppose I could see +Str Ninja but how's the durability and lategame?). I haven’t played much the past few months though so maybe there’s been new information re: lunatic runs (how superfluous is it, on average?).

Maybe late, but gl on your exam too.

I'll leave the +Mag Cav stuff for Gwim to answer, but 'll say that +Str/-Mag Ninja is fine offensively (65/65/60 spread) and defensively "okay" (45/45/40 HP/D/R) along with Nohr Yato boosting defense and resistance or potential Jakob support for good bulk. Lategame gets stomped hard, though Ninja lacks the firepower to kill the final boss within one round of combat so you'll want to pick up something like Hero or Paladin along the way for it. Marrying Silas or Harold does wonders.

[Tooru]

Leo caps spd on average at 20/20 as a Dark Knight with 1 speedwings. His speed is fine when you take into consideration things like Felicia support and tonics. He has no business with Sorc because he already kills everything he doubles and no business as a strategist because RIP enemy phase.

Why do you send Leo to tank when you have Xander?