Eriotto Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Leo caps spd on average at 20/20 as a Dark Knight with 1 speedwings. His speed is fine when you take into consideration things like Felicia support and tonics. He has no business with Sorc because he already kills everything he doubles and no business as a strategist because RIP enemy phase. I'll leave the +Mag Cav stuff for Gwim to answer, but 'll say that +Str/-Mag Ninja is fine offensively (65/65/60 spread) and defensively "okay" (45/45/40 HP/D/R) along with Nohr Yato boosting defense and resistance or potential Jakob support for good bulk. Lategame gets stomped hard, though Ninja lacks the firepower to kill the final boss within one round of combat so you'll want to pick up something like Hero or Paladin along the way for it. Marrying Silas or Harold does wonders. Well, story-wise you might be right, im afraid on pvp, well DK with defensive formation doesn't seems bad in his case tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Why go through the trouble of marrying a specific unit when Dark Blood actually has a slightly higher strength cap than Paladin? It also offers the Nohr skill so that you can exploit your pair-up partner's Luna skill or something (and not much else on Nohr I guess). Outdoor Fighter (and Defender) on the other hand... Great Knight actually has the highest strength cap out of the generic sword-using classes, but is also very slow with a cap of 27, and you need 35 AS to double the Lunatic Conquest final boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooru Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Why go through the trouble of marrying a specific unit when Dark Blood actually has a slightly higher strength cap than Paladin? It also offers the Nohr skill so that you can exploit your pair-up partner's Luna skill or something (and not much else on Nohr I guess). Outdoor Fighter (and Defender) on the other hand... Great Knight actually has the highest strength cap out of the generic sword-using classes, but is also very slow with a cap of 27, and you need 35 AS to double the Lunatic Conquest final boss. Paladin has Open Assault. It is not enough to ensure an ORKO so I don't catch the point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Paladin has Open Assault. It is not enough to ensure an ORKO so I don't catch the point... Procs maybe? There's always the enemy phase counter (paired up Nohr final boss will block the second attack however), but I imagine Azura and all the Rescue staff and Rescue skill users you meticulously scattered around the map would would drop dead before MU could have another shot against the final boss. TheoryFEing here though, my last Conquest MU was a Sorc so I couldn't do much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooru Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Procs maybe? There's always the enemy phase counter (paired up Nohr final boss will block the second attack however), but I imagine Azura and all the Rescue staff and Rescue skill users you meticulously scattered around the map would would drop dead before MU could have another shot against the final boss. TheoryFEing here though, my last Conquest MU was a Sorc so I couldn't do much. If you can send one more unit to the boss, Why not send somebody else to fight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 If you can send one more unit to the boss, Why not send somebody else to fight? Sure, but I think the posters who raised the awareness to the class discrepancies for ORKOing Conquest final boss care about 1-turning the map, which seems impossible with more than one bosskiller (unlike Chapter 27). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Dozel Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Paladin Xander caps STR at 33 + 8 from Berserker Charlotte S rank + 11 Might + 2 from personal skill + Elbow Room = 57 ATK.He averages at 22 Speed so lets say you slapped a speed wing + 5 from Berserker Charlotte S rank = 29 + 2 tonic + 2 lunch + Special dance = 36 speed, enough to double.Nohr Lunatic final boss has 26 DEF + Dragonskin. 57 - 26 = 31 damage /2 = 17 damage x 2 (with A rank sword)Nohr Lunatic final boss has 75 HP, meaning at minimum, Xander will only lower it to 41 at least.The only way I can see him ORKOing the final boss is with rallies, a brave sword and a Luna crit. Edited February 12, 2016 by Duke of Dozel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I think the damage from Dragonskin rounds down? Should be 17x2 dmg if Xander has A swords, though. How does Line of Death affect damage against C25 Ryoma and the Dragonskin bosses? Is it not +10 damage anymore? The Great Merchant skill is more of a novelty under efficiency settings, I should think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Dozel Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Skills like Line of Death, Extravagence, Elbow Room, etc. Arent affected by Dragonskin so they can be added to might. I think the damage from Dragonskin rounds down? Should be 17x2 dmg if Xander has A swords, though. I keep forgetting this is a thing hahaAlso Xander could also get Agressor should you train him under Dread Fighter for a bit. If you try hard enough, Im sure it's possible for him to ORKO. But in the end, Im speaking from a practical standpoint, and in a practical run, you generally can't afford reclasses. Edited February 12, 2016 by Duke of Dozel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I'll leave the +Mag Cav stuff for Gwim to answer, but 'll say that +Str/-Mag Ninja is fine offensively (65/65/60 spread) and defensively "okay" (45/45/40 HP/D/R) along with Nohr Yato boosting defense and resistance or potential Jakob support for good bulk. Lategame gets stomped hard, though Ninja lacks the firepower to kill the final boss within one round of combat so you'll want to pick up something like Hero or Paladin along the way for it. Marrying Silas or Harold does wonders. How would you rate +STR -SKL Ninja? 60/45/65 doesn't seem that bad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shephen Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 -Skl sounds like it would be pretty bad for awhile making a lot of hit rates shaky(probably wouldn't even get past chapter 3). -Mag is recommended if going a full physical unit since it doesn't really hurt the important growths(aside from a -5% to Spd), and then -Luck is usually recommended for most builds since its effects are fairly minor and can be patched up instantly with the chapter 4 Goddess Icon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooru Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I think the damage from Dragonskin rounds down? Should be 17x2 dmg if Xander has A swords, though. How does Line of Death affect damage against C25 Ryoma and the Dragonskin bosses? Is it not +10 damage anymore? The Great Merchant skill is more of a novelty under efficiency settings, I should think. It is +5 damage against Dragonskin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 -Skl sounds like it would be pretty bad for awhile making a lot of hit rates shaky(probably wouldn't even get past chapter 3). -Mag is recommended if going a full physical unit since it doesn't really hurt the important growths(aside from a -5% to Spd), and then -Luck is usually recommended for most builds since its effects are fairly minor and can be patched up instantly with the chapter 4 Goddess Icon. Not able to get past chapter 3? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shephen Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I mean you would eventually. Just the hit rate on the boss really sucks even with Gunter Support. I think it is like 63% or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 A bit of an exaggeration maybe, but if you're 5-turning the map while feeding MU the bosskill (he needs to dodge some archer shots on EP so it's not 100% reliable aside from whiffing attacks on the boss) he will have poor hit rates against the boss and slightly poorer with a -skl nature, but I wouldn't say it's the difference between being able and unable to clear the chapter. The strategy I've been using is weakening the boss with Gunter and then having Jakob grab the bosskill. It doesn't expose MU to any danger of death and whiffing is less likely. However, it requires Jakob to have +1 str on his first levelup; otherwise he fails to KO a Myrm with Gunter attack stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Why do you send Leo to tank when you have Xander? Sometimes you want a unit to take both a physical and magical hit. Procs maybe? There's always the enemy phase counter (paired up Nohr final boss will block the second attack however), but I imagine Azura and all the Rescue staff and Rescue skill users you meticulously scattered around the map would would drop dead before MU could have another shot against the final boss. TheoryFEing here though, my last Conquest MU was a Sorc so I couldn't do much. Procs. Though maybe I should try Dark Blood next time. Never realized it's class bases were similar to Pally/Hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeKr Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) -Skl is just too much hit lost throughout the game, imo. Everytime it's sub100 you just leak efficiency like crazy. :\ Leo makes an amazing Dark Flier though probably it’s better for Corrin and servant (somewhat early galeforce) if available. Otherwise, durability does kinda matter for offense/combat since the more enemies engaged or less healing needed are nice advantages to have. Can adopt more aggressive positions and so on. The Spd in Strategist is definitely nice as if using him as more of a glass cannon/nuke on pp, while relying more on Xander/Camilla/Corrin ep. Though often Leo ohkos too with attack stance (or if enemy is chipped + his personal). Also slight amendment to something I said earlier. I forgot only +Hp or +Def can 4 turn chapter 1, so lowesttc will probably use that and "rig" the other stats (but trickier nowadays I suppose with the whole fixed seed thing unless some manipulation is figured out). >_> Edited February 12, 2016 by XeKr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I bet your average +hp/def MU ends up losing a lot of reliability later on due to being such an inferior build. Though the levelups can be rigged on Hard; who wants to reset for them each time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeKr Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Probably so, which is why I like +Spd atm. Though they could also be expected (on average) to survive some situations other assets may not, improving flexibility/reliability later. And given some recent ltc trends…? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minischew Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Apologies if this is off-topic (or has been discussed before, given the 28 pages), but how is Saizo/Setsuna in terms of practicality? I know Ninja gives boosts in Spd & Res, but Saizo's personal growths in those look rather low... so if you have Setsuna further backing up his Spd & Res, does it help him be a really well-rounded Ninja? They're recruited only one chapter apart, so I'd figure it's pretty easy to increase their supports. I've heard they're both rather mediocre units in Birthright, though, so is it better to simply leave them out of your team entirely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Alchemist Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Saizo is by no means mediocre, he just needs some love when you first get him. His Speed won't be bad for long and his Str is great and his Mag is uncanny. Once he gets his mitts on an Explosive Shuriken he will be a terrifying mixed attacker. Setsuna would be a good choice to boost his stats early on, but Ninja has a crazy class Spd growth and he will not need Speed for long, but Setsuna will make sure he stays fast. All in all solid, I'd say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I've got to wonder why we call Saizou's speed bad. He has effectively 13 base due to shuriken and a 50 growth, which is more than fast enough for Hoshido. Anyway Bowman's boosts are great for Saizo early on. With 1 str proc he ORKO's every enemy in C9 except th Knights with either a steel or iron shuriken. Setsuna doesn't benefit as much and Grey suffers. Better to just do Saizo/Oboro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minischew Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I've got to wonder why we call Saizou's speed bad. He has effectively 13 base due to shuriken and a 50 growth, which is more than fast enough for Hoshido. Anyway Bowman's boosts are great for Saizo early on. With 1 str proc he ORKO's every enemy in C9 except th Knights with either a steel or iron shuriken. Setsuna doesn't benefit as much and Grey suffers. Better to just do Saizo/Oboro. I thought Oboro went best with Subaki, though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shephen Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) She is best with Baki. Setsuna/Saizo is fine. All Setsuna does is point and shoot with Steel Bow Forges and that is about it. Doesn't really need help from anyone. Setsuna!Asugi is fine since Saizo would probably hit all the Str threasholds for base stat inheritance and he can inherit Victory from Setsuna. If nothing else the movement boost is always good. Edited February 13, 2016 by Shephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Alchemist Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Is Dwyer better off as a Staffbot with wonky growths or is it worth suffering through E weapon ranks to get a stronk Dwyer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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