Opinions, thoughts about game, post-game (spoilers)

[ingu]

I don't post often but wanted to create a space to talk about any and all aspects of the game: gameplay, plot, characterization, general vibes, etc. Someone made a similar thread, but I'm pretty sure it died back in July. Big spoilers to follow.

These are just my opinions so feel free to disagree or add your own points.

Pros:

• I'm really pleased with the whole premise of the game. Choosing one family over the other based on either blood ties or having shared a long history together was a good way to get the ball rolling.
• Maps feel more lively and creative than in Awakening. I can't speak on behalf of Conquest/Nohr since I haven't played it yet, but the ones that I did play in Birthright/Hoshido were challenging enough.
• Skills and weapons are balanced. The game developers addressed some of Awakening's biggest flaws by pushing Galeforce into DLC, giving more positive/negative attributes to weapons, making Hoshido and Nohr-specific weapons and classes, etc.
• Inclusion of different proofs/seals. One of FE's defining attributes is how it allows players to essentially design their units and teams as they please. This customization is pushed further along with the addition of Marriage and Buddy Seals.
• I appreciate the addition of same-sex relationships, though I do think the game would have benefited from more thoughtful writing in the supports. I would hope that in future iterations (if there are any to follow), developers open up same-sex S supports to characters other than the Avatar... think something like Kagerou x Orochi, or Leon x Takumi.
• What were previously exclusively-male/female classes are now gender-neutral, with the exception of some DLC classes. This is awesome. I love being able to have male pegasus riders and Tsubaki, despite all the flack he gets, was one of my favorite units.
• Balanced growths. This goes alongside the point I made about balanced skills and weapons. It was way too easy to make overpowered units in Awakening, so this is good. It forces you to strategize more effectively.
• Leon, Takumi, and Oboro are strong characters. They are honestly stand-out for me and worth mentioning, and you'll see why...
• Edit: THE MUSIC. I can't believe I forgot to mention this. Some of the battle themes are nothing short of incredible. I found myself really psyching myself up for battles because that usually meant 30-60 minutes of good music. I distinctly remember the music from the prologue when you're fighting alongside Hinoka/Takumi. Very atmospheric.

Cons:

• The plot was executed shoddily, to say the least. In Hoshido, you spend what amounts to almost half the entire game looking for your siblings. What happened to defending the country? As soon as you make the decision to aid your blood-related family, you skip out on the actual citizens and leave poor Yukimura behind to figure the war out for himself. In Nohr: what was supposed to be a complex revolution that transformed the country from inside out ended up being Kamui playing doormat and carrying out a bunch of chores. Instead of Kamui doing the spying (what I had imagined when I first caught wind of the Nohr route), he's the one being constantly spied on. Invisible Kingdom feels like something the writers thought of to make everyone happy. The whole point of making this big decision early on in the game is to make you feel bad. There are real, tangible consequences. You're supposed to live with that. Why insist of making another path that essentially renders the other two irrelevant? That's exacerbated when you find out the whole reason for the conflict, and it basically boils down to: Hoshido and Nohr are both wrong. Actually, there's no real point in fighting. It's all some shady dragon that's to blame here but welp, you'd never know unless you played this version of the game. The writers really messed up here. Why not stick to just two versions and do them well? You could have written Garon up as a hardened, bitter old guy, focused on building an interesting history and immersive landscape, and the game would have been way better.
• Treatment of royal family could use some work. As it stands, six of the eight siblings are one-dimensional and underdeveloped. You have an upstanding yet stubborn samurai/knight warrior, a possessive older sister who exists only as sexual fodder, another older sister with literally nothing to offer plot-wise, and two younger sisters: one energetic and clingy, one shy and painfully insecure. Takumi got way more plot (in both Hoshido and Nohr) than the other characters. There were times when I forgot Hinoka existed. The legendary weapons were only bestowed to the male siblings. Potential sausagefest of heroes if you played male Kamui, with the girls applauding in the background.
• There are so many characters in this game. That normally wouldn't be a problem for me, but the consequences for writing up so many damn people is that the writers didn't bother to flesh any of them out (with the exception of a few). I vote Kamui for most uninteresting, played out character of the year. And so many of the other characters rely on single tropes or character flaws for all of their supports. This leads into my next point, which is:
• The game has generally poor support conversations. A substantial number of them are way too rushed, or feel unnatural. Or make me feel uncomfortable (e.g. Leon x Camilla, or the now infamous Kamui x Soleil). Again, I feel like this could have been helped by simply cutting down on the character roster and focusing more on building organic interactions and trying to figure out ways to reveal aspects of each character that could only be discovered through a particular support. Also, where did the voice acting in the supports go?
• Children... why are they here? I understand that children were an important part of Awakening's appeal. But they were also crucial to the story. And it made sense there. They don't really make sense here. As much as I like the idea of something coming out of the relationships I spent time nurturing, if they're not core to the plot, I don't think they need to be included.
• There is an astounding amount of symmetry happening between the games. Aside from some differences in gameplay, a lot of things happen in one version that happen in the other. It makes buying both versions seem like an almost "okay, I guess I should have both just to have them" kind of decision. I genuinely believe that if you're going to release two versions of one game, they should be really varied. It's why I never got into the Pokemon craze.

TLDR: Core gameplay elements have made some solid strides forward. OST is pretty great. Plot and characters are generally pretty terrible though, and are a major turn-off for me. Excited to see what Intelligent Systems comes up with next, if they continue with the series.

Edited January 23, 2016 by ingu

[Duke of Dozel]

You're way too harsh on this game, and some of the things you are asking for isnt what we should expect from FE. But yep, it's your opinion, good to show we are all different people.

We need a FE4 remake to break the monotomy.

[Cinnamon Bun]

I definitely agree with you about the third route. It totally trivializes the entire premise of the game IMO. The story would have been much more mature and tolerable had they just worked on the two original routes. I'm gonna play all of the versions of course, but I might be a bit salty about Revelations. I've actually been thinking that my Nohr file will probably be my main game in terms of post game stuff.

[Shephen]

I will say that Fates has been some of the most fun I've had playing a Fire Emblem game in a while and is pretty easily my favorite game in the series.

[Michelaar]

I love the revelations path! Especially because NONE of your siblings die!

[ingu]

I definitely had fun playing the game, and you bet I'm going to spend hours post-game optimizing all of my units and starting new save files. But I equally value good storytelling, and that's where this game fell short for me.

[CompteSecours]

I don't understand why people want S gay support so much.

I agree on the royals, for me only the males are interesting ( especially Takumi )

[Cinnamon Bun]

I don't understand why people want S gay support so much.

I agree on the royals, for me only the males are interesting ( especially Takumi )

Perhaps because there are gay people who play FE and DON'T want to be forced to create a female MU in order to get married???????????(or the other way around)

I'm stoked about Niles and so are many others, this is VERY progressive for Nintendo so shh

[MCProductions]

I don't understand why people want S gay support so much.

While I don't want gay S-Supports in FE, I do understand why people want it in. It is a role playing game after all, and people want their avatar to represent themselves as much as possible. If said player happens to be gay, they want to be gay in game. I'd rather not have it, but it's there and I'm willing to compromise with there just being one to two options.

[solrocknroll]

I don't understand why people want S gay support so much.

I agree on the royals, for me only the males are interesting ( especially Takumi )

Lol

Not only is it an actual type of relationship that, y'know, exists, but it makes sense for certain characters.

For instance, Kjelle and Severa in Awakening or Camilla and her girl squad here have so much subtext that it would make sense if they could actually marry. It wouldn't affect you in any way. I can't take anyone who says stuff like this seriously because it's a flashing neon sign that says intolerance

and that's bad hth

[CompteSecours]

Perhaps because there are gay people who play FE and DON'T want to be forced to create a female MU in order to get married???????????(or the other way around)

I'm stoked about Niles and so are many others, this is VERY progressive for Nintendo so shh

And ? So all the character has to be bisexual ?

Just consider you character as a male if it bother you so much. After all, if you want to marry a character, it's because you like him, not because he is a man and you too. No ?

I'm a straight man, but in most of my files, I'm a female Kamui because i want to marry male character. Because i like THE CHARACTER, regardless of his gender. Remember YOU are playing, not Kamui.

And when i see the S gay supports, i just want to cry. It's like, ALL the things gay people fight against. Did you saw Zero gay support ? He is basically a sex machine with sm tendencies.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

Well, I haven't played the game, but I know the routes well enough to tell you that Conquest is very different from Hoshido and IK in terms of difficulty. It even has a different enemy AI.

Just to make an example taken from actual players: many LPers used to Awakening had tons of problems with chapter 10 on Normal when the game came out, because they didn't know how to take action or how to act, or simply put: because it was hard and it doesn't let you make errors, and forces you to choose your units wisely. Without grinding, you can forget minmaxing and powerleveling, and the game already takes a different direction.

Therefore with IK out of the picture, owning both Conquest and Birthright is a deal different than owning two Pokèmon versions, because they do feel like what the original premise intended: the same game, but with content for different playstyles.

[Cinnamon Bun]

And ? So all the character has to be bisexual ?

Just consider you character as a male if it bother you so much. After all, if you want to marry a character, it's because you like him, not because he is a man and you too. No ?

I'm a straight man, but in most of my files, I'm a female Kamui because i want to marry male character. Because i like THE CHARACTER, regardless of his gender. Remember YOU are playing, not Kamui.

And when i see the S gay supports, i just want to cry. It's like, ALL the things gay people fight against. Did you saw Zero gay support ? He is basically a sex machine with sm tendencies.

Idk I'm pretty kinky and gay, I think Zero/Niles is great ;)

[MCProductions]

Honestly, when I realized what Invisible Kingdom was initially, I was the definition of salty.

I've calmed down a good bit, and I'll tell you straight up, I'm not acknowledgeing it as a choice in my "canon" playthrough of the Special Edition when I actually get the game and form my own opinions, but I'm okay with it, because it's a third FE game I'm getting with the special edition. That, and Support Grinding heh heh

Considering the Story, I've seen that a lot of people don't like it, but seeing as I don't like FE plots 99% of the time, and have to flatout make shit up to enjoy them said 99% of the time, I honestly still have hype for the story, even if I'm just curious at this point.

[solrocknroll]

I concur that Niles is pretty cool. He's not super campy, just hyper sexual. And hyper sexual is something I can deal with.

but yeah nintendo really did pretty well putting in any option to begin with. maybe Atlus could learn a lesson?

[Thane]

I don't post often but wanted to create a space to talk about any and all aspects of the game: gameplay, plot, characterization, general vibes, etc. Someone made a similar thread, but I'm pretty sure it died back in July.

TLDR: Core gameplay elements have made some solid strides forward. OST is just great. Plot and characters are generally pretty terrible though, and are a major turn-off for me. Excited to see what Intelligent Systems comes up with next, if they continue with the series.

I love it when people remember me; it fills me with a false sense of relevance.

On a serious note, however, I agree with almost everything you've said. I've already picked the story apart multiple times, so I'm sort of glad to see that more people share my opinions; makes me seem less like a blind hater.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

Idk I'm pretty kinky and gay, I think Zero/Niles is great ;)

Well not every gay FE fan thought that. In fact, some were pretty disgusted/pissed off/annoyed/etc by that.

Anyway, I can see where CompeSecours is coming from, because it's understandable to not want these supports if they are badly done... but, after all, these are baby steps towards better same sex S supports; and maybe not just for the avatar, but for other units too.

I can understand the mentality "If you love the character you marry them regardless" VERY well, but also many players self insert into the adventure and don't want to come to compromises about their identity.

So please people don't jump to hyberboles and gang up on him!

---

I feel like a route like Revelations was inevitable, though... I'm sure many fans would've liked to use both factions on the same map. I personally like the idea and did not mind the plot, but the canon implications ruin the premise so much.

I love it when people remember me; it fills me with a false sense of relevance.

On a serious note, however, I agree with almost everything you've said. I've already picked the story apart multiple times, so I'm sort of glad to see that more people share my opinions; makes me seem less like a blind hater.

You articulate your points too much to be a blind hater lol.

[MCProductions]

I feel like a route like Revelations was inevitable, though... I'm sure many fans would've liked to use both factions on the same map. I personally like the idea and did not mind the plot, but the canon implications ruin the premise so much.

This is literally why I'm okay with Revelations now. I basically consider it Fates' version of Awakening's Spotpass Paralouges.

Entirely non canon, but a neat what if all the same.

[solrocknroll]

Well not every gay FE fan thought that. In fact, some were pretty disgusted/pissed off/annoyed/etc by that.

Anyway, I can see where CompeSecours is coming from, because it's understandable to not want these supports if they are badly done... but, after all, these are baby steps towards better same sex S supports; and maybe not just for the avatar, but for other units too.

I can understand the mentality "If you love the character you marry them regardless" VERY well, but also many players self insert into the adventure and don't want to come to compromises about their identity.

So please people don't jump to hyberboles and gang up on him!

---

I feel like a route like Revelations was inevitable, though... I'm sure many fans would've liked to use both factions on the same map. I personally like the idea and did not mind the plot, but the canon implications ruin the premise so much.

Nah, I want to be able to marry said character as my own gender. It's not the same pretending to be female and seeing the dynamic between them. I like seeing how two males for instance would come to love each other. Females too, but I'm not female so I can't really identify there.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Miss Kira

[CompteSecours]

You can't have everything you want.

[Time the Crestfallen]

You can't have everything you want.

You have the most appropriate profile picture for that post.

[Thane]

This is literally why I'm okay with Revelations now. I basically consider it Fates' version of Awakening's Spotpass Paralouges.

Entirely non canon, but a neat what if all the same.

The main problem with Revelations is that it's the other way around: the game itself calls Birthright and Conquest the wrong choices.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Thane

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

Nah, I want to be able to marry said character as my own gender. It's not the same pretending to be female and seeing the dynamic between them. I like seeing how two males for instance would come to love each other. Females too, but I'm not female so I can't really identify there.

Did you read what I wrote?

I can understand the mentality "If you love the character you marry them regardless" VERY well, but also many players self insert into the adventure and don't want to come to compromises about their identity.

[solrocknroll]

Did you read what I wrote?

I didn't mean to just quote you, I meant the other guy.

The one with the middle finger avatar and "you don't get everything you want"

which we all know is false

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

I didn't mean to just quote you, I meant the other guy.

The one with the middle finger avatar and "you don't get everything you want"

which we all know is false

It's not false because I surely did not get everything I wanted >:V

Edited January 22, 2016 by CrimeanRoyalKnight