saisymbolic Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Exactly. I wasn't attacking the USA, I actually in this instance say it was the right decision. If I was in the same position, I would do the same thing (I believe- hard to put you mind in the exact same position). Nagasaki and Hiroshima WERE NOT complete military installations. One, I can't remember which, was literally the third choice. The first two cities had cloud cover so we dropped it on the third. Yes, they had developed Pathogens, and used them in China. They dropped ceramic bombs filled with bacteria. The BIG thing people rarely here about is the I-401's which carried planes. At the time of surrender, one was headed to bomb the Panama Canal, which was lightly defended as we thought it was safe. That would have ruined international shipping for YEARS. Okay, I had that wrong then. Thank you for correcting me as history was never really one of my strong suits despite my interest in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemind Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) Okay, I had that wrong then. Thank you for correcting me as history was never really one of my strong suits despite my interest in. No problem. And don't get me wrong: every city was a hot bed of the enemy which is why I said complete. You seem to know alot don't sell yourself short :). Also were going to bomb Kyoto, but changed it before we did for the history that would have been lost to Japan and all things considered I'd say that was rather considerate too boot. This is true, and would have been one of the great travesties of history. Not militarily, but from a cultural/historical perspective. Edit- I was wrong, both were militarily significant- One a Seaport, the other vital in munition creation. Then again, I hadn't read anything on that for a long time. Regardless my fault, mind was fuzzy. Edited February 24, 2016 by Nukemind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 okay, i think a discussion of whether or not the usa was justified in nuking japan is too far into the derail territory, so let's cut that out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemind Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 okay, i think a discussion of whether or not the usa was justified in nuking japan is too far into the derail territory, so let's cut that out Roger That. I will ask, does anyone else have any idea of what Nohr could be based on? As I said topographically it looks like Switzerland and the surroundings, but as a Kingdom the closest I can think of is the Kingdom of Bohemia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Roger That. I will ask, does anyone else have any idea of what Nohr could be based on? As I said topographically it looks like Switzerland and the surroundings, but as a Kingdom the closest I can think of is the Kingdom of Bohemia. Honestly I got Roman vibes - at least from Marxander. laurel crown and all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemind Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Honestly I got Roman vibes - at least from Marxander. laurel crown and all Hmm I could see that. I was looking in the Medieval period but Roman would also make political sense, all the infighting and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Germany with a side of Italy/Rome. Hetalia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I got Roman vibes as well--but also they have a rather nordic weapon naming scheme. Siegfried? Brynhildr (is it Brunhilde now? I forget)? Ginnungagap? Hello Norse Mythology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Hmm I could see that. I was looking in the Medieval period but Roman would also make political sense, all the infighting and all. Yeah I mostly got vibes of Rome. i liked studying rome in school mmm Germany with a side of Italy/Rome. Hetalia no dont remind me of the days when i was in that fandom on deviantart I can totally see some Germany in it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemind Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Germany with a side of Italy/Rome. Hetalia You know, I said I couldn't see Fascist Germany or Italy, but I could see the Prusso-German Empire of 1871-1918, or the Piedmontese-Italian Kingdom of 1861-The Beginnings of Mussolini, or even a little into his reign. I got Roman vibes as well--but also they have a rather nordic weapon naming scheme. Siegfried? Brynhildr (is it Brunhilde now? I forget)? Ginnungagap? Hello Norse Mythology. Yeah, they have alot which is nice. Then again, even Frelia/Renais had them. Siegmund and some others IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 It was mentioned here (on Serenes) that Jynx was racist, surely they didn't mean for a children's character to be racist and yet there it is, people took it that way and were offended by it. Something doesn't have to be intentional to be racist and a magical land where the sun doesn't shine is called London so they actually nailed that part without any bias and while Nohr is the designated evil kingdom they chose to give it very few redeeming qualities despite being able to play as Nohr when they could have centered it around a single tyrant in Nohr rather than making it entirely 'evil' throughout the kingdom. (which is a credit to the poor writing more than anything, but still.) Jynx was a little more overt in the problems with it. Whilst I can see where you're coming from, the links are incredibly tenuous and it's a bit of a stretch for it to be particularly offensive. Nohr might have a more European feel compared to Hoshido, but that's more because Hoshido has a very eastern feel to it. Nohr's no more European than any of the previous FE nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 You know, I said I couldn't see Fascist Germany or Italy, but I could see the Prusso-German Empire of 1871-1918, or the Piedmontese-Italian Kingdom of 1861-The Beginnings of Mussolini, or even a little into his reign. Yeah, they have alot which is nice. Then again, even Frelia/Renais had them. Siegmund and some others IIRC. FE4 is also heavily influenced, in naming at least, by both Celtic and Norse mythology. It's everywhere. I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemind Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 FE4 is also heavily influenced, in naming at least, by both Celtic and Norse mythology. It's everywhere. I love it. As do I. The ancient Norse were such an interesting culture but they usually get looked over for England, Germany, and France in Europe, sometimes Russia as well (which was descended from Vikings anyway, or at least the Kievan Rus). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 As do I. The ancient Norse were such an interesting culture but they usually get looked over for England, Germany, and France in Europe, sometimes Russia as well (which was descended from Vikings anyway, or at least the Kievan Rus). I want Celtic Emblem next please. Jynx was a little more overt in the problems with it. Whilst I can see where you're coming from, the links are incredibly tenuous and it's a bit of a stretch for it to be particularly offensive. Nohr might have a more European feel compared to Hoshido, but that's more because Hoshido has a very eastern feel to it. Nohr's no more European than any of the previous FE nations. We never had an extreme Eastern influence in FE before. So yeah, it makes them somehow seem even more Western. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) I think the last Eastern nation we had was Sacae, which were most likely based on the Mongols--given their choice of tents and manner of dress. That was quite a while ago. As do I. The ancient Norse were such an interesting culture but they usually get looked over for England, Germany, and France in Europe, sometimes Russia as well (which was descended from Vikings anyway, or at least the Kievan Rus). Definitely. I'm glad FE's giving them some recognition at least, if only in naming schemes. The stories from the Eddas are pretty great reads. Edited February 24, 2016 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanp12 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I still haven't actually been able to play, but I think it would have been far more tolerable if Nohr actually had been portrayed more like a morally ambigious WWII US instead of cartoon villains. Because dropping the A-bombs was such a tremendous escalation in warfare that any decision to use them was going to be morally questionable, but also somewhat necessary. From what it sounds like (me not having played the game yet--still waiting on snail mail to deliver my 3DS), Nohr's problem is that nothing it does has any semblance of reasonable justification. If they had presented some sort of a-bomb moral dilemma, I think that would be far more fitting and interesting than what I've heard of Conquest so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 You can always assume some sort of 'manifest destiny' sort of thing to justify to yourself you conquering your neighbors. Historically speaking it was quite common to think " I'm allowed to conquer these people because I'm stronger/more advanced" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanp12 Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 You can always assume some sort of 'manifest destiny' sort of thing to justify to yourself you conquering your neighbors. Historically speaking it was quite common to think " I'm allowed to conquer these people because I'm stronger/more advanced" I mean something that could be justified today. You're supposed to project yourself onto the Avatar, and how can you justifiably do that when one of the available options that you're intended to choose conflicts morally with modern society? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Fire Emblem has never been the paragon of perfect racial portrayals, but Fates is getting disproportionate amount of responses over this. Because people claim reverse racism. Its really freaking hilarious, yet hella gross at the same time. Like, good gods, white people, grow up. I got Roman vibes as well--but also they have a rather nordic weapon naming scheme. Siegfried? Brynhildr (is it Brunhilde now? I forget)? Ginnungagap? Hello Norse Mythology. Yeah. Nohr is totally not Nordic though, its more like Roman Mordor/Westeros. In a hole in the ground. So i figured this is Japan and FE's boner for Norse Mythology names doing its thing again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemind Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I think the last Eastern nation we had was Sacae, which were most likely based on the Mongols--given their choice of tents and manner of dress. That was quite a while ago. Definitely. I'm glad FE's giving them some recognition at least, if only in naming schemes. The stories from the Eddas are pretty great reads. Haven't read them, definetely will. I have read alot about the voyages of the Viking Merchants, as well as about Yggradisil, the world snake, etc. You can always assume some sort of 'manifest destiny' sort of thing to justify to yourself you conquering your neighbors. Historically speaking it was quite common to think " I'm allowed to conquer these people because I'm stronger/more advanced" Absolutely. Mods said not to talk about A-Bombs so I won't, but from the first written histories in Mesopotamia and the remains of the Indus River Civilizations, it's clear warfare is endemic in humans. From the time of Persia and Rome, of Carthage and of Assyria, the strongest survive, compete, decline, and are replaced. Roughly every 250 years an empire declines and a new one rises, this has almost always been true, though after Rome there was a gap. We are currently in about our 50th-100th year of "rule" depending on how you count it, though with changes in technology I do believe the cycle will change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Nuke, start with the Prose Edda/Gylfaginning. Poetic Edda is a bit of a harder read and some context is unclear without Prose Edda. But get both because its gr9mazing stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemind Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Nuke, start with the Prose Edda/Gylfaginning. Poetic Edda is a bit of a harder read and some context is unclear without Prose Edda. But get both because its gr9mazing stuff. I definitely will. As I said I'm a Germany/Japan main, 1850-1950. But ancient cultures are just so damn fascinating, especially since we don't have complete records. Allows for educated guessing, allows for expansion of the mind, etc. Thank you both for this, will definitely be reading them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I've always found ancient cultures very fascinating (for me, moreso than more recent ones-possibly because it's so removed from current events) ---but I studied Classical Latin for 6 years throughout middle and high school and with it came a lot of cultural lessons about the ancient romans and a lot of mythological texts we had to read (often Ovid) so that's something I'm decently familiar with. I wish my uni taught old Norse though, I wanted to learn it. IDK I really like ancient languages haha I can also read Classical Chinese better than...the average Chinese person I guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katryn Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Roger That. I will ask, does anyone else have any idea of what Nohr could be based on? As I said topographically it looks like Switzerland and the surroundings, but as a Kingdom the closest I can think of is the Kingdom of Bohemia. Personally, I've come to think of it as a stand-in for the word "Norse" since we have powerful, mostly blond warriors (talking about the Nohr siblings) living in an aggressive pseudo-European society. There's also the fact that we have a character named "Odin" and that Nohr's shapeshifting character (excluding Corrin, of course) is a wolf, which could relate to one of Loki's children, the wolf Fenrir. (WHom ironically enough kills Odin at Ragnarok.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Personally, I've come to think of it as a stand-in for the word "Norse" since we have powerful, mostly blond warriors (talking about the Nohr siblings) living in an aggressive pseudo-European society. There's also the fact that we have a character named "Odin" and that Nohr's shapeshifting character (excluding Corrin, of course) is a wolf, which could relate to one of Loki's children, the wolf Fenrir. (WHom ironically enough kills Odin at Ragnarok.) And they have a werewolf on their side. voiced by fenris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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