Royal Family Tree Confusion (Spoilers)

[Rezzy]

So I'm confused about how exactly the Hoshidan Royal family is related. I've gathered the former King is father to all the Hoshidan Siblings and not Corrin, but Mikoto married the old king, bringing in Corrin as a Step-sibling to Ryoma and Hinoka. Was the old king polygamous, or is Mikoto also the mother to Takumi and Sakura? If not, the alternative is that Mikoto came after Sakura was born, but since Sakura was "very young" when Corrin was kidnapped and the old king died, that just raises questions of how some consort who only married the king recently managed to become Queen in her own right rather than have the crown go to Ryoma immediately, having her act as Regent at best.

The Nohr family, I think I've figured out, Garon is the father of all of them, but they all had different mothers, with the possible exception of Xander and Camilla. The only question is whether he was polygamous, or whether he went all Henry VIII on them and kept executing his wives, which frankly wouldn't surprise me.

Hopefully, we get some sort of chart of how everyone is related, eventually.

[Sunwoo]

The real explanation is probably that IS fucked over their own timeline and logic just to let you marry the Hoshidan siblings. All four of them. Takumi and Sakura aren't related to you, either, and completely related to Ryouma and Hinoka. Although the younger two REALLY should be your half-siblings.

EDIT: As for the Nohr siblings, it seems implied that Nohr's fine with the king taking concubines and having kids with them. It was the concubines themselves who were not okay with it.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Sunwoo

[I love fire emblem]

I think all four of the Hoshidan siblings are Sumeragi's and Ikona's children, so I think that Takumi was probably 1 or 2 years old and Sakura was either a couple of months old or 1 year old by the time Corrinmui was kidnapped by Garon, which would explain why Takumi and Sakura barely remembers Corrinmui when he/she reunite with the Hoshidan siblings. As for the Nohrian siblings, they're all the children of Garon, but Marxander mother is former queen Katerina, with Camilla's, Leo's, and Elise's mothers being individual concubines. So essentially they are all half-siblings.

[Pokechu]

I think that Mikoto

[spoiler=Revelations Spoiler]Had Corrin with Anankos, but then when he turned evil she fled with Corrin and met and married Sumeragi, and by that time Sakura and Takumi had been born and Ikona had died.

The Nohr siblings are all children of concubines besides Xander who's the child of the Queen.

[Water Mage]

Also, there were other Nohr sibilings other than Elise, Leo, Camilla and Xander. Garon had many concubines. Garon had probably more than 10 children.

There aren't around anymore because they killed each other in war for the throne.

Xander, Camilla, Leo and Elise aren't King Garon's only children, they are the only survivors.

It's implied that at least Camilla and Leo killed at least one of their many, many sibilings.

That's why probably nobody questioned when Corrin was said to be Garon's child.

They probably just assumed that Corrin was the child of one of Garon's concubines.

[Truthblade]

I think that Mikoto

[spoiler=Revelations Spoiler]Had Corrin with Anankos, but then when he turned evil she fled with Corrin and met and married Sumeragi, and by that time Sakura and Takumi had been born and Ikona had died.

The Nohr siblings are all children of concubines besides Xander who's the child of the Queen.

The problem is

that Corrin was a baby when Mikoto met Sumeragi, and since Takumi and Sakura are younger than him/her, they would'nt be around at that time.

[Pokechu]

The problem is

that Corrin was a baby when Mikoto met Sumeragi, and since Takumi and Sakura are younger than him/her, they would'nt be around at that time.

Hmm, where does it say that? If that's the case, then maybe Corrin could be like 2 or 3, Takumi 1, and Sakura a few months. I'm kinda stretching here tbh *sniff*

Edited March 22, 2016 by Pokechu

[Rezzy]

Also, there were other Nohr sibilings other than Elise, Leo, Camilla and Xander. Garon had many concubines. Garon had probably more than 10 children.

There aren't around anymore because they killed each other in war for the throne.

Xander, Camilla, Leo and Elise aren't King Garon's only children, they are the only survivors.

It's implied that at least Camilla and Leo killed at least one of their many, many sibilings.

That's why probably nobody questioned when Corrin was said to be Garon's child.

They probably just assumed that Corrin was the child of one of Garon's concubines.

Where did it say that Leo and Camilla murdered their sibling? I remember a support where Leo and Elise's mothers tried to use them as leverage to get ahead in court, but it seems kind of out of character for Camilla and Leo to murder their siblings in cold blood.

[Karis]

It's actually revealed in Revelations how it goes in Hoshido.

Mikoto met Sumeragi when she visited Hoshido from Valla (before any evil stuff happened). Sumeragi fell in love at sight and did the boom boom with her. Corrin was not born before Mikoto and Sumeragi met. It's likely Mikoto returned to Valla after meeting/doing Sumeragi, gave birth to Corrin there, and then returned to Hoshido to find Sumeragi with two more children from a deceased wife, Takumi and Sakura. Mikoto was also introduced to little Ryoma and Hinoka, Hinoka being very abrasive towards Mikoto and even going so far as to say Mikoto had no right bossing her around because she wasn't her real mother. Then Garon went batshit insane and we know the rest.

As for the Nohr siblings.

Garon had at most 5 concubines, one for each child. This includes Azura's mother Arete and the other queen Katarina. There are no other Nohr siblings beyond these.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Karis

[Sunwoo]

Mikoto met Sumeragi when she visited Hoshido from Valla (before any evil stuff happened). Sumeragi fell in love at sight and did the boom boom with her. Corrin was not born before Mikoto and Sumeragi met. It's likely Mikoto returned to Valla after meeting/doing Sumeragi, gave birth to Corrin there, and then returned to Hoshido to find Sumeragi with two more children from a deceased wife, Takumi and Sakura. Mikoto was also introduced to little Ryoma and Hinoka, Hinoka being very abrasive towards Mikoto and even going so far as to say Mikoto had no right bossing her around because she wasn't her real mother. Then Garon went batshit insane and we know the rest.

I don't think the bolded part is true. I asked someone who knows more about this particular detail of Hoshido's family tree better than I do, and she said it implies the opposite - that Ikona was alive when Mikoto came to Hoshido with Kamui.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Sunwoo

[Luankachu]

In the Revelation Route, Sumeragi says he taught Corrin how to wield a sword. It takes time to learn something like that. Considering how Corrin's Support with Sakura says she had just been born when Corrin was kidnapped, there's a high chance that Ikona was still alive when Mikoto came to Hoshido.

...Or they just didn't bother putting any thought into the timeline, which considering how bad the plot is, it's very likely.

[Azz]

Here is a picture someone made showing the family tree.

[Rezzy]

Okay, so I'm convinced that Sumeragi was polygamous or two-timing Ikona, unless someone gives better evidence otherwise. The timeline just doesn't fit if Sakura was just born when Corrin was kidnapped, and Corrin spent at least a few years in Hoshido before getting kidnapped.

[Damosel]

In Nohr it is all half-siblings who share a father, Marxander was the only child of the deceased queen while the rest were children of concubines. It seems like they were trying for Harem politics, in that the concubines tried to kill the competition off to get their own kid ahead- but this is never gone into detail.

All Hoshido sibs are from Sumeragi/Ikona. Because of this you have to keep in mind that both Takumi and Sakura are younger than Corrin- because that influences the "Ikona is dead/alive" question.

The evidence the third route gives us...

This analysis is using the fan-patched end scene from Invisible Kingdom chapter 25 so I can't say how the localization worded it.

From the text Sumeragi implies that once, before Touma got completely screwed over by a mad dragon, under a hidden identity Mikoto visited Hoshido and he saw her. Quote, “Seeing [Mikoto] resting at a fountain bank… I was immediately infatuated.”
He later says that after Touma was wrecked Mikoto showed up again but this time with a baby.

Therefore the time in which he spied her and became infatuated… Ikona had to still be alive and in the picture cause Takumi and Sakura had yet to be born. And Ikona must’ve still been around when Mikoto came a'knockin’ because of said reason. Also while the localization doesn't word it this way, the Japanese Kamui/Sakura supports describe her as a newborn when Kamui was kidnapped- so any Ikona death would've been very very recent.

Sumeragi totally had at least two ladies at the same time. And only in Nohr is the word Concubine ever used… never in Hoshido. So Sumeragi’s infatuation is looking super sketchy.

Also we know from the S ranks between Corrin and the siblings that Corrin is not blood related to Sumeragi. From different DlC and hints elsewhere that Corrin's father is-

Hydra/Anakos' heart. Yes, the mad dragon god's anthropormorphized blood-pusher knocked up Mikoto

So if Sumeragi did diddle Mikoto that first time he saw her, nothing came of it.

[Karis]

In Nohr it is all half-siblings who share a father, Marxander was the only child of the deceased queen while the rest were children of concubines. It seems like they were trying for Harem politics, in that the concubines tried to kill the competition off to get their own kid ahead- but this is never gone into detail.

All Hoshido sibs are from Sumeragi/Ikona. Because of this you have to keep in mind that both Takumi and Sakura are younger than Corrin- because that influences the "Ikona is dead/alive" question.

The evidence the third route gives us...

This analysis is using the fan-patched end scene from Invisible Kingdom chapter 25 so I can't say how the localization worded it.

From the text Sumeragi implies that once, before Touma got completely screwed over by a mad dragon, under a hidden identity Mikoto visited Hoshido and he saw her. Quote, “Seeing [Mikoto] resting at a fountain bank… I was immediately infatuated.”

He later says that after Touma was wrecked Mikoto showed up again but this time with a baby.

Therefore the time in which he spied her and became infatuated… Ikona had to still be alive and in the picture cause Takumi and Sakura had yet to be born. And Ikona must’ve still been around when Mikoto came a'knockin’ because of said reason. Also while the localization doesn't word it this way, the Japanese Kamui/Sakura supports describe her as a newborn when Kamui was kidnapped- so any Ikona death would've been very very recent.

Sumeragi totally had at least two ladies at the same time. And only in Nohr is the word Concubine ever used… never in Hoshido. So Sumeragi’s infatuation is looking super sketchy.

Also we know from the S ranks between Corrin and the siblings that Corrin is not blood related to Sumeragi. From different DlC and hints elsewhere that Corrin's father is-

Hydra/Anakos' heart. Yes, the mad dragon god's anthropormorphized blood-pusher knocked up Mikoto

So if Sumeragi did diddle Mikoto that first time he saw her, nothing came of it.

Anankos has a human form shown in the DLC with Inigo, Owain, and Severa.

[Rezzy]

This convoluted mess could have been avoided if they just made some or all of the Hoshido siblings your actual half-siblings. We've already got enough marriage options, it's not the end of the world if you can't marry your step-siblings. It's already creepy anyway.

[Damosel]

Anankos has a human form shown in the DLC with Inigo, Owain, and Severa.

That isn't Anakos as a whole, it is only the heart. His heart seperated when he was going mad...somehow, Just like Lilith his other child is implied to be some sort of asexual reproduction. Anakos-heart is the reason why Owain, Inigo, and Severa are brought over to try and help Kamui (and stop his insane body). That anthropomorphized Anakos heart literally disappears at the end of the DLC because of the Fight Club curse- so it can't be fully Anakos cause he's still there to endboss.

[Sunwoo]

This convoluted mess could have been avoided if they just made some or all of the Hoshido siblings your actual half-siblings. We've already got enough marriage options, it's not the end of the world if you can't marry your step-siblings. It's already creepy anyway.

If they wanted us to marry everyone, they should've just not given Kamui any siblings to begin with. This "Schrodinger's incest" way of going about with things is super stupid. And then the IK DLC is released and it basically shoves in this stupid lineage thing into our faces so it's even harder to ignore.

[Rezzy]

Here is a picture someone made showing the family tree.

That's a really nice tree, by the way. Hopefully, they add something like that to the main Fates page.

[saisymbolic]

It would have been relatively easy to write the story without Corrinmui having any siblings, honestly. The whole incest schtick was garbagio because

they didn't even have the sweaty, hairy balls to go through with it.

Edited March 22, 2016 by SaiSymbolic

[Abvora]

It would have been relatively easy to write the story without Corrinmui having any siblings, honestly. The whole incest schtick was garbagio because

they didn't even have the sweaty, hairy balls to go through with it.

No, they went through with it. They just turned around and made Azura of all people Corrin's cousin. And after jumping through all the hoops they did to justify marrying the siblings, too.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Where did it say that Leo and Camilla murdered their sibling? I remember a support where Leo and Elise's mothers tried to use them as leverage to get ahead in court, but it seems kind of out of character for Camilla and Leo to murder their siblings in cold blood.

It's not a sure thing but it's certainly possible, Camilla in particular.

-We have evidence that Garon had considerably more than three concubines. Leo references the fact there were quite a number using their children as pawns, and the implication is that there were certainly more kids than just the three of them.

-During her Niles support, Camilla talks angrilly of her role in the conflict between the concubines and calls herself "pathetic" for her role in it. She clams up on the subject a bit at this point but...

-Camilla was targetted by an assassin, and the timeline fits for it to be part of this conflict. Camilla herself hired that assassin, and we know that Beruka was sent to do at least one assassination thereafter (her former employer) so I think it's naive to assume she never made use of Beruka's services herself otherwise.

-Camilla speaks repeatedly of being merciless to one's enemies, and switches rapidly into that personality if her loved ones are threatened, or when someone brings it up (e.g. her support with Elise). This does not suggest someone who would be above murder if need be.

I think the evidence favours Camilla having at least one of either (a) her half-siblings, or (b) her step-mothers assassinated. It's only hinted at, but it fits her character and backstory too well for me to ignore. I'm less convinced about Leo. It's not impossible, but the evidence isn't as strong. He's also considerably younger and given when this conflict is implied to have happened, he may have been too young to really participate. Elise, notice, is too young to really even be aware of it at all.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Dark Holy Elf

[Rezzy]

Camilla may have ordered the assassination of a step-mother that had tried to kill her, but ordering the death of a child is a moral event horizon, that I just can't see them crossing with her. I don't think there were any recent siblings alive. They never mention any of them in any support convos I've read, and it would put a damper on all the "happy times" Corrin remembers about the rest of the Nohr siblings.

I think it's all "ancient history" that got resolves over a decade ago, which may tie directly into Garon being a different man. Perhaps Slime Garon doesn't have sex, since there appears to be no current queen or any concubines, odd behavior for a king who previously had at least 5 different women. Maybe any other children were killed in early childhood or infancy, or just died naturally, considering the ridiculously high infant mortality rate of the real-world middle ages. The rest of Garon's harem likewise could have all taken each other out or died natural deaths. It's not an unreasonable theory, considering many of the otherwise young and healthy FE7 characters are nowhere to be seen in FE6, presumably having died in the 20 years between the two games.

[Water Mage]

Rezzy, you're not taking in account all the possibilities.

There's still a good chance that Camilla, Leo and even Xander may have killed one their sibilings.

Not because they wanted or were ordered to kill them.

They could have killed one of their sibilings in self-defense.

It was pretty much a war between the concubines.

For all we know the other sibilings may have tried to kill them many times.

[Rezzy]

Rezzy, you're not taking in account all the possibilities.

There's still a good chance that Camilla, Leo and even Xander may have killed one their sibilings.

Not because they wanted or were ordered to kill them.

They could have killed one of their sibilings in self-defense.

It was pretty much a war between the concubines.

For all we know the other sibilings may have tried to kill them many times.

I could see them killing in self-defense, but since we don't have good evidence saying they did, plus the fact that most of them were so young at the time, it leads me to believe they were spectators of the bloody politics, rather than active participants.