Etrurian emperor Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 When browsing the Fates board on Gamefaqs I came across a topic discussing the most canonly powerful characters. To my surprise most people agreed with one of the first people who put the Awakening trio above the royals, their bosses who's powers are more hyped in the story and with stats that probably blows that of the Awakening trio out of the water. The logic behind the ranking was that the Awakening trio already had their adventure before, got some power from Anankos and that Laslow might have been holding back in his fight against Xander. I was mostly surprised that viewpoint existed at all. With their prominence in the story, feats in that story and killer stats I considered a no brainer the royals were the strongest units in the army. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Canonically no idea, probably not overall since they can't pop dragon veins but combat prowes wise is up for debate. Gameplay wise in Conquest yes and no. Odin and Laslow can both run laps around their bosses but Selena got too fat to keep up with Camilla's inflated as fuck stats. Gameplay wise in Rev.... Rip non-royals, you tried. I'm Nhorfag so gonna go with yes >.> Edited March 22, 2016 by joshcja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Odin's storyline powers is actually kinda bullshit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondworld Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Up in the air canonically, gameplay wise lol hell no the trio doesn't come close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Odin's storyline powers is actually kinda bullshit His powers in the DLC are pretty great. By the DLC I mean beach brawl where he becomes the fucking Fonz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The support conversation between Xander and Laslow indicate that the latter was more than a match for Xander, and as you say, might have held back. That said, if we are to discuss power levels as if we were on a Dragon Ball forum, I'd wager that Xander eventually becomes the most powerful character we control, barring maybe Corrin and Azura for their vague powers that change as the plot demands it. Leo, even after having personally fought against Corrin and the Hoshidan siblings, claim they together couldn't defeat Xander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TanatatKnight Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The support conversation between Xander and Laslow indicate that the latter was more than a match for Xander, and as you say, might have held back. That said, if we are to discuss power levels as if we were on a Dragon Ball forum, I'd wager that Xander eventually becomes the most powerful character we control, barring maybe Corrin and Azura for their vague powers that change as the plot demands it. Leo, even after having personally fought against Corrin and the Hoshidan siblings, claim they together couldn't defeat Xander. I would also add that Xander defeated Birthright!Corrin during the first half of their duel. Something that Ryoma may or may not be able to do with Conquest!Corrin. I say that the Royals are still a lot stronger than the Awakening Trio. Their legendary weapons, talent, experience, and sheer might puts them well above the Awakening Trio. However, the Awakening Trio also had experience and can possibly be more skilled than the royals. Laslow wasn't really holding back against Xander. The whole "dancing" around the enemy was his sword style. Xander commented that it looked like Laslow was playing him around, but that was Laslow's tactic. To rile his opponent with his dance so that they lose their focus when fighting him. Saizo also commented on this style of play in their support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I would also add that Xander defeated Birthright!Corrin during the first half of their duel. Something that Ryoma may or may not be able to do with Conquest!Corrin. I say that the Royals are still a lot stronger than the Awakening Trio. Their legendary weapons, talent, experience, and sheer might puts them well above the Awakening Trio. However, the Awakening Trio also had experience and can possibly be more skilled than the royals. Laslow wasn't really holding back against Xander. The whole "dancing" around the enemy was his sword style. Xander commented that it looked like Laslow was playing him around, but that was Laslow's tactic. To rile his opponent with his dance so that they lose their focus when fighting him. Saizo also commented on this style of play in their support. Don't the Awakening kids have at least the younger siblings beat in terms of experience though? They grew up fighting on a whole other scale than any of the royals ever did, and I'd imagine that the Awakening kids are older than the both Leo and Takumi. The thing about power levels though is that it doesn't matter since it's all up to the writers anyway. I mean, it can be fun to theorize, but we don't know for sure the physical capabilities or limitations of people in that world, so it's hard to speculate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Don't the Awakening kids have at least the younger siblings beat in terms of experience though? They grew up fighting on a whole other scale than any of the royals ever did, and I'd imagine that the Awakening kids are older than the both Leo and Takumi. The thing about power levels though is that it doesn't matter since it's all up to the writers anyway. I mean, it can be fun to theorize, but we don't know for sure the physical capabilities or limitations of people in that world, so it's hard to speculate. I'm pretty sure they have everyone beat in regards to experience, turns out fighting your way out of armageddon is hard. Their supports get pretty fucked up at times (straight up oceans of blood lol). They're revealed to be way stronger than their superiors in terms of raw combat prowess but their inability to use DBZ ex Machina Veins may make them lower overall. Spoilers to anyone who missed Odin/Ophy's A btw. He still has the brand as does Ophelia. (It's pretty worthless in fatesland but apparently having it at all is still actively bad for ones long term life expectancy, hoping the dlc elaborates on that) Agreed that this is just shitpost theorycrafting though. Edited March 22, 2016 by joshcja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maritisa Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 In Gameplay Selena will fucking ruin everything alive if you train her up, holy shit. My royals wish they were this good. Well except Takumi. He kills everything with no freaking mercy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sieghart Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 In Gameplay Selena will fucking ruin everything alive if you train her up, holy shit. My royals wish they were this good. Well except Takumi. He kills everything with no freaking mercy. True Selena is a really good character, In my Revelation playthough is really a killer machine when she is paired with my avatar. Also Tomebreaker and shurikenbreaker help her alot for the annoying ninjas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankmaster98 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Sword master Odin has consistently proven to be one of, if not the most powerful unit in my games. But... I would say plot and power is always given to the royals of the respective universes. So while Owain is super powerful Odin is at least middle tier in this world.... No comment on Laslow or Selena because they can be royal depending on their fathers. Selena only if Robin is her father I think.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Sword master Odin has consistently proven to be one of, if not the most powerful unit in my games. But... I would say plot and power is always given to the royals of the respective universes. So while Owain is super powerful Odin is at least middle tier in this world.... No comment on Laslow or Selena because they can be royal depending on their fathers. Selena only if Robin is her father I think.... Leo: When I used to give you those dangerous missions, I did so to prove a point. It was nothing personal. You must think about it from my perspective at the time. Here was a complete stranger my father was forcing me to accept as my retainer. So I assigned you impossible tasks, hoping you'd hate me and run away. Odin: I...see. Leo: I didn't think I could trust you, Odin, and it seemed like the only way to be rid of you. But you were so competent, you completed even the most impossible quests. At least a few of them were things I made up on the spot. I'd never even heard of a lodestone imbued with the essence of darkness. It doesn't even make sense! But you found one all the same. Odin: Well, I DO know a thing or two about darkness, milord. Leo: And the legends of the spirits haunting the Woods of the Forlorn are terrible... Odin: Eh, they're not so bad. Better than the Risen http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Fates_Supports/Odin_Leo I'm pretty sure the odin x azura support shows these as the FoD kids? Edited March 22, 2016 by joshcja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sire Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Story wise, I want to lean more towards the trio. First off, they came from a ruined world (Think Future Past, but they all survived and went back in time like Lucina), so they are not strangers to combat and hardship. Second, and this point is debatable, is that they joined up with Chrom and fought in another war, eventually leading up to Grima. (This is debatable as child paralogues depend on how fast one can "S" rank, and some people don't get all the child characters until "endgame") Thirdly, and another debatable point, when we consider the DLC for Awakening. Sure, there were the massive Einherjar battles against the heroes and characters of old, but there existed the challenge maps, including Apotheosis. While I'm sure Fates may get its own variant, if the trio can survive that, I'm sure they can handle almost anything... However, it is true that in the world of Fates, Dragon Veins exist. Its power is capable of freezing units in place, reducing their stats, reducing enemies to 1 HP, constructing a personalized castle, etc. So, if Dragon Veins are around. I'll say the Royals may win. Otherwise, if relying on pure skill and equipment, the Trio may win, even against the unique weapons of Xander and Leo. Gameplay wise, I'm pretty sure Royals win in a general sense. While any unit can become amazing and kick butt in Fates, the Royals are the easiest to use due to their stats and unique weapons. Elise is a healer (and mounted), so she practically has her own role over the trio. Leo is a Dark Knight, and can be compared to Odin. While Odin can be trained to be powerful as either a STR or MAG build, it can be argued that a trained Leo fairs just as well. Camilla is Camilla. She loves Corrin too much to be beaten by otherworldly adventurers. Xander has his unique blade which practically trumps anything Laslow and Selena can do, in addition to his crazy DEF. Edited March 22, 2016 by Sire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luankachu Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) I'm pretty sure the odin x azura support shows these as the FoD kids? They aren't from the Future Past. It's possible that some events from Future Past are similar to what happened in the canon timeline. From Laslow x Odin's A-Support Odin: I also think of the other world. Of seeing my mother for the first time since... Gods, it was wonderful seeing her alive and well after what happened in our time. Oh, and helping our parents and the others defeat the dragon! Laslow: That was a wonderful world. It was such a happy place, too. I mean, after Grima fell. Ah, remember looking for that tiara and then getting chased by a bear? Ha! We made some good memories there, didn't we? [...] Laslow: Thank you for being here for me. You've made good on your promise. Odin: No problem! But, erm...what promise was that? Laslow: Well, it was a long time ago. Remember that harvest festival we went to? When I was troubled about how we were fighting real people instead of Risen. You said you'd always be a shoulder for me to lean on. And you have been. Most of those events happened in Awakening (Looking for the tiara and getting chased by a bear happened in the 4th Drama CD). After what happened in our time implies that they time-traveled, while helping our parents and the others defeat the dragon implies that the 1st gen had a major role instead of the minor one they had in Future Past. And there's no reason for Inigo to fight real people instead of Risen in the Harvest Scramble DLC after Grima is defeated. I'm pretty certain that Inigo, Owain and Severa are from the regular Awakening timeline. Now... for the actual topic. Unless Ryoma and Xander had to survive an Apocalypse when they were only children, I'm confident in saying that the Awakening Trio is much stronger than the Royals. They had to do what they could to survive, while the Royals never had to go through so much hardship. The impression I got from the 3rd Drama CD was that the 2nd Generation of Shepherds were the only surviving human beings in the entire world. You must be strong to be able to survive such a situation, [spoiler=Hidden Truths DLC] I'm also pretty sure that the only reason Odin, Laslow and Selena can't use the Dragon Vein is because of gameplay reasons. Anankos did give them power when they came to Fates' world. Edited March 22, 2016 by Luankachu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) I'm mostly going off Odins absolute fear of suspension bridges for FoD tbh (That said Odin also mentions Lucy time hopping so it may just be mainline). Other people were around it's just the kids were the only remaining threat to grima there. Also if I remember right Lissa was the only parent to survive the kids main story timeline (?) while she was dead as a doornail in FoD. It's workable if you accept the outrealms as a permanent fixture in that world I guess? Just waiting on the DLC to confirm one way or another hopefully. Everything till then is just "muh headcannon" Edited March 22, 2016 by joshcja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karis Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Hmm, this is difficult to say really storywise. Xander does say Laslow was stronger than he thought, but Xander also probably wasn't using Siegfried. So I'd say Xander at least is stronger. As for Camilla and Leo, I think Leo is a bit stronger than Odin as long as he uses Byrnhildr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentacotus Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 In game I don't think so. Royals have unique legendary weapons tied to them along with pretty solid stats from the get go with growths where it counts. Canonically, I think its fair to say that the Awakening trio are more than a match for the royals you know surviving years in an apocalyptic world, fighting hoards of risen, time traveling and fighting in more wars...etc. If nothing else they definitely have more experience. Notwithstanding that they've already fought and won against a godly dragon. I also recall in Xander's support how he struggled to beat Laslow/Inigo by a hair and there's no telling if he was holding back either (they are on a mission after all). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Gameplaywise, not even close; the royals are some of the best PCs in the game and the Awakening trio are all pretty mediocre IMO. Plotwise I dunno. I generally don't really care about canon plot powers a la Dragon Ball. I'll just note that on Birthright, the game really does narratively hype up Xander a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolvir Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) In canon, without taking into consideration their stats and levels, the Awakening Trio would be the more skilled. Maybe not the most powerful, but definitely the most skilled and experienced of almost all the characters except for a few like Fuga and Gunter. They have the knowledge from fighting in a war against a deity. I would definitely put Severa and Inigo at pretty high skill because they didn't go through a class change, and kept their knowledge of fighting with a sword. Lets be completely honest, story wise, Severa and Inigo are more likely to be closer to level 20 Hero's, not level 10 Mercenaries. You can even take into account the fact that they likely fight with a different style since they are from Ylisse, not Nohr. Inigo's would be especially unique as he is very likely incorporating the fluid style of his mother's fighting style into his own. Owain on the other hand changed to a sorcerer, which gives him something entirely new to have to learn. The thing the Royals have on their side is knowledge of the land they live in, the fact that they almost all carry a divine weapon, and them having the dragon vein ability. So I will put it this way. In a one on one fight with just a basic sword, Severa and Inigo could very easily defeat Xander and Camila, but with dragon vein and divine weapons taken into account it isn't as easy. Owain on the other hand is going to have a much harder time because he wasn't trained in magic before this, so he is actually less knowledgeable in its use than Leo, but put a sword in Owain's hand and that changes to heavily being in his favor. Edited March 22, 2016 by Tolvir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Spoilers to anyone who missed Odin/Ophy's A btw. He still has the brand as does Ophelia. (It's pretty worthless in fatesland but apparently having it at all is still actively bad for ones long term life expectancy, hoping the dlc elaborates on that) Agreed that this is just shitpost theorycrafting though. When/where did it say having the brand effects life expectency? Did I somehow missed a mention of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maritisa Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 it's because having a brand makes you a prime target since you're a "special" person lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luankachu Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Other people were around it's just the kids were the only remaining threat to grima there. As I said, I'm using the 3rd Drama CD as a basis for my claims. Brady and Kjelle didn't want to go to the past because they wanted to stay and protect the few remaining people alive (Gerome didn't want to go either, but that was more because he thought that mere mortals shouldn't meddle with the flow of time). Shortly after this, Ylisstol falls, and not a single survivor other than the 2ng Gen of Shepherds was found. If you want to watch what I'm talking about, you can see the first track here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Experience: Awakening trio considering they have 2-4 wars under their belt by the time of Fates whilst the Royals only have the one Ability: Royals because Dragon's Vein Weaponry: Royals because Siegfried and Brynhilder Overall: Royals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Near Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I think it's debatable between Leo and Owain. Xander is just kinda broken with Siegfried but I don't think Inigo really showed all he's got. And I'm not sure if Hidden Truths fully explains this (and I don't have the intention of spoiling myself) but Owain's canon class was a swordmaster while it's sorcerer in fates so I doubt he's really showed his true power to Leo. But really, does anyone else find it just awkward that we have Ylissean royalty being relegated to royal retainers. Hopefully this is dealt with properly in Hidden Truths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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