Fire Emblem Fates, Beginner's Guide to Conquest, by Mangs

[Rezzy]

Nah you're dead on. Def/hp/skill matter way more than mag here.

You want to either flat orko or be as close to an exact 2rko as possible with nos in fates.

What is nos? I might be missing something obvious.

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

Nosferatu, the reason Odin is a lord and does not deserve having swords stuck in him

[FoliFF]

What is nos? I might be missing something obvious.

Nos stand for the dark tome nosferatu.

Lovely a ninja.

Edited March 24, 2016 by FoliFF

[Aggro Incarnate]

It's interesting cuz from what I've been hearing so far, Odin seems to be like this hidden gem of Conquest that has potential of shining either as a Nostank or Swordmaster, but can be trashy if you don't know what to do with him, because his bases and growths seem so hybrid as a Dark Mage compared to the other ones we get in this game. (I can see how Odin's the best nostank mage with the right skill setup due to his bulk and growths, but is he the best mage, esp. if you were doing something like a native class only run?)

I don't think people would be initially willing to invest in the large sum of money to Nosferatu, especially when there's a lot of hype of Conquest having limited funding in-game, and that's why many of us don't end up really discovering his potential. It doesn't help that in Chapter 8, his recruitment chapter, he has lower RES as a Dark Mage than Niles, and seems relatively ineffective at killing either Mages or Fighters that feature in this chapter, and in my runs he's served little more than as Heartseeker-bot to give Niles better hit rates for killing mages with a Weapon Triangle Disadvantage. I'm guessing what you'd do here is to buy Nosferatu before entering the chapter, and give it to him immediately? Or would you immediately reclass him into Samurai for Vantage...? To someone who's never tried it before, the idea that Odin saves turns by killing things while not getting himself killed as a Nostank when simply placed in enemy range is kinda hard to take in.

In many ways he wouldn't seem to be the beginner's choice for a good unit... For those who know how to use him, when and how would you reclass him? The limited amount of heart seals and funds early-game seems to be the slightly challenging part of optimising his uses...

Edited March 24, 2016 by Aggro Incarnate

[joshcja]

It's interesting cuz from what I've been hearing so far, Odin seems to be like this hidden gem of Conquest that has potential of shining either as a Nostank or Swordmaster, but can be trashy if you don't know what to do with him, because his bases and growths seem so hybrid as a Dark Mage compared to the other ones we get in this game. (I can see how Odin's the best nostank mage with the right skill setup due to his bulk and growths, but is he the best mage, esp. if you were doing something like a native class only run?) I don't think people would be initially willing to invest in the large sum of money to Nosferatu, especially when there's a lot of hype of Conquest having limited funding in-game, and that's why many of us don't end up really discovering his potential. It doesn't help that in Chapter 8, his recruitment chapter, he has lower RES as a Dark Mage than Niles, and seems relatively ineffective at killing either Mages or Fighters that feature in this chapter. I'm guessing what you'd do here is to buy Nosferatu before entering the chapter, and give it to him immediately? Or would you immediately reclass him into Samurai...?

In many ways he wouldn't seem to be the beginner's choice for a good unit... For those who know how to use him, when and how would you reclass him? The limited amount of heart seals and funds seems to be the slightly challenging part of optimising his uses...

Nos is negligible, you're buying both even if you only use Leo and there's no other high cost items early game even with light forges and tonics.

On ch8 his stats are 100% kill or cure you want to get him 2 levels with "ok" gains there, its a bitch to do in ltc (30% chance or so if you're going fast with a smuggled mag tonic) but casually it's disgustingly easy to set up. Past that dunk him in mozu's paralouge before ch9 and he's just MVP nos facedive status (there's enough exp there for him arthur and silias, mozu too if you're using her)

Dipping for vantage in a no kids run can be tricky if you wanna go fast but most maps have some place he can 101 exp vantage on.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I definitely think Odin is being overrated here.

As a samurai, he's... not very good. Let's assume he's reclassed immediately and level him to 10 by chapter 10.

Odin: 25 HP, 11 Str, 15.5 Skl, 15 Spd, 15 Luck, 8 Def, 6.5 Res
Selena: 24 HP, 12 Str, 12 Skl, 15 Spd, 9 Luck, 11 Def, 8 Res

Selena will have a weapon exp lead (probably), didn't need a Heart Seal or exp investment to get this far, and still has better stats, mostly the defence. Growth-wise, Odin has better growths in HP/Luck/Sklll while Selena has better Speed/Defence, so things don't really get any better for Odin relatively from here.

Selena isn't really a very good unit IMO (sword lock before promotion, no mount, stats aren't that exceptional) so putting in investment to get a unit which is at best a lateral shift from her and (IMO) is actually worse doesn't seem like a good idea.


Nosferatu is more interesting, and certainly where the hype is at least somewhat grounded in reality, for all that I still think it goes a bridge too far.

I will say that Magic is a big deal. You don't heal that much if you don't hit hard, since you can't double. At its worst, Magic is worth half a point of Def/Res for a Nosferatu strategy, since every 2 points of magic = 1 healing = offsets 1 damage... but of course more Mag is also useful just for hurting enemies more so that you'll be able to clean them up more easily next phase. And Magic is a problem for Odin. Base Odin has 8 mag which means 15 atk with Nosferatu, which means you'll be lucky to heal yourself by 5 points (even accounting for Malefic Aura). While he is better at this role than Nyx, who is made of paper and is better-off just used as a magical sniper, he compares very poorly to Leo, who has only slightly less Def (1-2 points), but has more HP and Speed, and leads in Magic and Resistance which stretch into the double-digits. I could be argued that Nosferatu's utility still makes Odin worth it early, but 4000 gold is a pretty big investment, so I dunno. As a tank, he certainly didn't impress when I tried him compared to just using units like Effie, Silas, and Dragonstone Corrin. And there's absolutely no way he's better than Leo.

[joshcja]

I definitely think Odin is being overrated here.

As a samurai, he's... not very good. Let's assume he's reclassed immediately and level him to 10 by chapter 10.

Odin: 25 HP, 11 Str, 15.5 Skl, 15 Spd, 15 Luck, 8 Def, 6.5 Res

Selena: 24 HP, 12 Str, 12 Skl, 15 Spd, 9 Luck, 11 Def, 8 Res

Selena will have a weapon exp lead (probably), didn't need a Heart Seal or exp investment to get this far, and still has better stats, mostly the defence. Growth-wise, Odin has better growths in HP/Luck/Sklll while Selena has better Speed/Defence, so things don't really get any better for Odin relatively from here.

Selena isn't really a very good unit IMO (sword lock before promotion, no mount, stats aren't that exceptional) so putting in investment to get a unit which is at best a lateral shift from her and (IMO) is actually worse doesn't seem like a good idea.

Nosferatu is more interesting, and certainly where the hype is at least somewhat grounded in reality, for all that I still think it goes a bridge too far.

I will say that Magic is a big deal. You don't heal that much if you don't hit hard, since you can't double. At its worst, Magic is worth half a point of Def/Res for a Nosferatu strategy, since every 2 points of magic = 1 healing = offsets 1 damage... but of course more Mag is also useful just for hurting enemies more so that you'll be able to clean them up more easily next phase. And Magic is a problem for Odin. Base Odin has 8 mag which means 15 atk with Nosferatu, which means you'll be lucky to heal yourself by 5 points (even accounting for Malefic Aura). While he is better at this role than Nyx, who is made of paper and is better-off just used as a magical sniper, he compares very poorly to Leo, who has only slightly less Def (1-2 points), but has more HP and Speed, and leads in Magic and Resistance which stretch into the double-digits. I could be argued that Nosferatu's utility still makes Odin worth it early, but 4000 gold is a pretty big investment, so I dunno. As a tank, he certainly didn't impress when I tried him compared to just using units like Effie, Silas, and Dragonstone Corrin. And there's absolutely no way he's better than Leo.

Vantage + skill + def is really hard to overate. It really does raise Odins survivability by an absurd amount compared to his boss

Leo is blind (missed hits heal for 0) and comparatively frail (Yes that 2 def matters a LOT when you tank 10 hits in one turn). Also does less damage than critvantage mode LoD!Odin but he can at least dip off his retainer for skills by the time that matters.

Like on the ch24 peg island, Odin @ capped skill will face down high 70ish hitrates, vantage lets him miss one one tick on a peg and his def barely covers another. By comparison Leo will be facing down a 50-60% hitrate and will just die if he misses without a vantage dip. (Even then you may as well be flipping coins).

It's really noticeable. Basically you can cover Odins weaker mag with pairup/rally mag/pots and his def is just high enough to hit pot benchmarks. Leo has to pairup for Def+mag to do the same jobs giving them similar offensive stats but... Odin has skill. The minor point variance in normally ignored stats and main stat in an otherwise useless area really just do that much work.

Edited March 25, 2016 by joshcja

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

As a samurai, he's... not very good.

I agree with this.

Nosferatu is more interesting, and certainly where the hype is at least somewhat grounded in reality, for all that I still think it goes a bridge too far.

I will say that Magic is a big deal. You don't heal that much if you don't hit hard, since you can't double. At its worst, Magic is worth half a point of Def/Res for a Nosferatu strategy, since every 2 points of magic = 1 healing = offsets 1 damage... but of course more Mag is also useful just for hurting enemies more so that you'll be able to clean them up more easily next phase. And Magic is a problem for Odin. Base Odin has 8 mag which means 15 atk with Nosferatu, which means you'll be lucky to heal yourself by 5 points (even accounting for Malefic Aura). While he is better at this role than Nyx, who is made of paper and is better-off just used as a magical sniper, he compares very poorly to Leo, who has only slightly less Def (1-2 points), but has more HP and Speed, and leads in Magic and Resistance which stretch into the double-digits. I could be argued that Nosferatu's utility still makes Odin worth it early, but 4000 gold is a pretty big investment, so I dunno. As a tank, he certainly didn't impress when I tried him compared to just using units like Effie, Silas, and Dragonstone Corrin. And there's absolutely no way he's better than Leo.

Odin gets enough Magic in my experience to be perfectly capable of 2HKOing things, and you really don't need to be doing much more than that. Tonics and pair-up make your power flexible too. You point out that Odin has low Attack at base, but he's not going to be casting Nosferatu at base; you literally don't have the funds to afford it until after you clear Ch8, a chapter where he manages just fine with Thunder because it's chapter eight. After that:

Chapter 9 has plenty of Archers for him to deal with, and apparently he can divebomb the entrance if you're reckless like Josh (I'm not)

Chapter 10 has the entire Oni swarm on the left, which he only needs Nyx's support to just devour.

Chapter 11 has the Oni room on the right and the Counter Archer room on the left. Take your pick, or double dip. (Right room is trickier on Lunatic tbf)

Chapter 12 does hate on him with Ninjas, but if you're fast and willing to dawdle he can absorb the 8 reinforcement Apothecaries, and does a nice job picking on the ones close to the exit.

Chapter 13 is largely populated by Armor Knights, Cavaliers, and Wyvern Riders. Do the math.

That's five chapters. I don't think his base attack is really worth considering. At level 16, his base attack is a very comfortable 25.

Saying Leo has better Magic and Resistance does not make him appeal to me at all; Resistance is the least useful stat in the game (and Odin isn't exactly lacking in it), and more Magic is kinda overkill when Lightning exists. He also suffers from availability; Odin is very likely to have a nice marriage going once Leo shows up, and would rather use Leo as his pair-up bot than the other way around since Dark Knight is a rubbish combat class that gives +1 move to a partner.

[Dark Holy Elf]

"Leo is blind (missed hits heal for 0) and comparatively frail (Yes that 2 def matters a LOT when you tank 10 hits in one turn)."

4 mag would compensate for 2 def by healing for 2 more, and the gap is a lot bigger than 4.

"Saying Leo has better Magic and Resistance does not make him appeal to me at all; Resistance is the least useful stat in the game (and Odin isn't exactly lacking in it), and more Magic is kinda overkill when Lightning exists."

Er wha? Lightning makes Mag matter more, since it essentially uses your Mag twice in the calculation, and it only has 1 might. Additionally, repeated use lowers your Mag further, making it that much harder to overcome enemy Res. I certainly don't find Leo's level of Mag overkill in the slightest. The average enemy the last few maps of Conquest hard has Res of around 20, you need to have an Atk stat in the mid 40's to 2HKO that, and a Mag in the mid 20's makes it awfully hard to get there even with a pairup, and virtually impossible to get there with Lightning. Even if we assume our mages target lower-res folks (with res in the teens, like heroes or generals), the stat is still going to matter, because those enemies typically have more HP.

On the other hand, you know what stat doesn't matter much? Skill. The skill gap is never more than 10 points so that's less than 15 hit. Additionally, Secret Books are in extremely low demand, and dark mages get this rather cool ability which helps them out in this regard anyway. To say that Skill is worth more than Mag is just silly.

Res matters because if even one of the enemies you're trying to tank attacks magically, Leo will be more durable than Odin even before accounting for his advantages in HP and Nosferatu power.

"Odin is very likely to have a nice marriage going once Leo shows up, and would rather use Leo as his pair-up bot than the other way around since Dark Knight is a rubbish combat class that gives +1 move to a partner."

If Dark Knight is a rubbish class, seal Leo out of it. He has access to Sorc for the exact same gold cost as Odin does, and Strategist as an option as well.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Dark Holy Elf

[-Cynthia-]

Meh Odin 2RKOing things with Nos isn't too impressive to me either because well...2RKOing isn't ORKOing and it's not like ORKOing in Conquest is terribly difficult for some units.

I can imagine Odin is better in a very casual playstyle where we can get him several levels in C8 and don't care much about offense/Mov, but Leo has a lot of advantages in LTC or moderately efficient playthroughs.

[joshcja]

Thing is, and this is important. At no point do Leo's stat leads ever matter unless you straight up slam 3 dusts a sorc!corrin@supportive and rally magic onto him... on hard. Though at that point you may as well just use Sorc!Mu with Odin the pairup bot for better skills/ease of use/availability. I'll entertain the idea of Leo being way better on nhormal because...it's nhormal.

But on lunatic....

Leo misses every orko benchmark that Odin misses without LoD tossed into the mix (even then it's neutral benchmark wise with a shoutout to odin's waaay easier dips) and while odin hits 2rko benchmarks for solo tanking Leo has to rely on sweeper tactics because his long term nosing is non existent. Big mag heals less on turn 2, and then you die if you're names not odin because "lol no vantage"

Dusts are going onto Odin or Ophelia (2rko nos+lightning orko/early Nos orko benchmarks+ohko gate on first and 2nd gen runs respectively) every other relevant mage caps magic naturally with pots to hit chapter benchmarks, and with dusts Odin will normally push 35-36 magic @ 20/20 to Leo's....38. That's not double digits. Leo is not making up that skill/def deficit though as his natural skill at level 20 is.. 18 (Blind as fuck) and the dracosheilds are contested as fuck. Odin on the other hand will actually hit his skill cap at 20/8 or so for reliable hitrates all day every day and has the def lead to hit pot benchmarks.

The only mages that reliably hit important Nos/lightning Orko benchmarks for late game are.

Ophelia

Ophelia

And

Ophelia

End of list.

Conquest!Lunatic does not care how high a unit's mag growth goes until it breaks 41 mag at no statues cap has an early join and has an inherent +10 and vantage. Under that...you're hitting 2rko benchmarks forever off a 50% growth.

(I have used the Conquest mage squad to an almost depressing extent x.x)

@Cynthia:

Yeah Leo is better for LTC on normal and... usable on hard. There's no way in all unholy hell is Leo saving turns over any other unit on lunatic LTC though (Outside of his completely free status ofc) keeping up with the curve is about impossible here without nosdiving/Vantage Crit diving... no vantage for the 16 hard dive, lol hitrates in 17, I guess he can kinda kill things on 18 but the hammer/BK is better at this point, get off you're damn horse nerd for 19 no exp on 20, no exp on 21, absolutely minimal exp on 22, chip one guy in 23, uuuh carrybot in 24?, 25 is one turn and done, 26 lolweak, 27...no, 28, 1 turn I'm out.

Getting Odin 2 levels in his join isn't terribly hard in a LTC setting, it's just "stand here and let me find where Arthur has to waggle to get you not garbage rng so you can dodge 5 axes" it's a lot of resets (20 on average at like 45 seconds each) , but it's not hard. After that he generally find small ways to contribute early game, mostly just farming up exp/resources to do Odin things in the few places a vantage sorc can actually shave a turn in the mid to late game (Namely the almost but not quite forced 2 turn murderholes via heavily rigged vv critspam) while Silias/Jakob/Camilia emblem happens on the other side of the map till ch16 adds the big change of jakob/silias/corin/xander emblem ft whatever 1x/lows you hope will save you turns (Odin can barely manage a 17 or 18/1 by Leo's join with no turns dropped but that's pretty damn good in this setting).

In Lunatic/Hard!Efficiency Odin actually shines brightest imo, (this is what I normally play) he can just rip out half a map on his own to enable reasonably quick all secondary objective clears once he's up and running.

Edited March 25, 2016 by joshcja

[-Cynthia-]

I've found Leo very useful in Lunatic without reclassing to Sorc or Vantage or whatnot. +Spd Pair Up and tonics, maybe a Speedwing if his growth is being uncooperative and that's pretty much it. 1-2 range, 2HKOs pretty much everything, mount, good physical and magical durability. The latter is particularly useful, not many units in Conquest can handle a mix of physical and magical units on EP.

I'm...not sure about resetting 20 times for anything myself.

Edited March 25, 2016 by -Cynthia-

[joshcja]

I've found Leo very useful in Lunatic without reclassing to Sorc or Vantage or whatnot. +Spd Pair Up and tonics, maybe a Speedwing if his growth is being uncooperative and that's pretty much it. 1-2 range, 2HKOs pretty much everything, mount, good physical and magical durability. The latter is particularly useful, not many units in Conquest can handle a mix of physical and magical units on EP.

I'm...not sure about resetting 20 times for anything myself.

Nah he's a great freebie.

I'm just not seeing him saving turns past ch16 where he's another pony to go talk to a dude as the only route chapter left in the game is 19 where Leo isn't exactly putting in work above and beyond the call of duty and then you're into super sanic speed land

20 resets isn't bad,

For the lowest count possible on Lunatic!19 I think I wind up resetting like...60+ times on odin route? It just barely hit's the 3 turn cycle though drop VVCrit odin in between the western fox swarms with one rescue and one dance on turn 1 with a high def BK user birding along to blick the secondary stacked foxes, and VV crit the world, move to boss group aggro range, VV crit the world again, cleanup turn 3 EP while the rest of the squad finishes off the northeast groups and the southwest trio if they stay on target.

It sounds bad but the overall chance of success is still better than optimal prolouge 3 (yay sub 1% chance of a clear with no seeding!!!!!!!!!!!)

Edited March 25, 2016 by joshcja

[Mangs]

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

PSA: Conquest gives you literally four charges of Rescue

not four staffs, four charges

please do not waste a charge doing what this guy does on difficulties above normal, there are far far far better uses for it

Edited March 30, 2016 by DoesntKnowHowToPlay

[Avalanche]

What difficulty is this guide done on Mangs?

[Aggro Incarnate]

Regarding 11:45, Chest Keys and Door Keys in Fates disappear after you complete the map they appear in. They only stay in the inventory of whoever obtained it or the convoy for the duration of that particular chapter.

Come to think of it this kind of makes sense since one wouldn't expect, for instance, the same keys fit for Fort Dragonfall to also work in the Ninja Hideout in Mokushu, and so forth, but it definitely comes across as an interesting game design choice.

[Mangs]

What difficulty is this guide done on Mangs?

Normal. It is a beginner's guide.

PSA: Conquest gives you literally four charges of Rescue

not four staffs, four charges

please do not waste a charge doing what this guy does on difficulties above normal, there are far far far better uses for it

The reason I used the rescue staff was on purpose. I wanted to show newer players how to properly use the staff to get out of a bind, instead of just putting it in my convoy, never to use it again. I view this guide as a tutorial, and what better way to showcase a staff, than to instantly use it.

I don't know how many times I have to say this. This is a BEGINNER'S guide. These videos are not meant to show anyone how to 100% optimally clear a chapter, and I very specifically state this in the first episode. I am merely showcasing the chapter/characters, and then showing how I personally handled it. The video is meant to give the player a heads up on what to look for, as well as some tips.

The reason why I am making a BEGINNER’S guide is because I don’t feel like I know enough about the game to make an advanced guide (which I could make for say, Fe6), but I felt like a beginner tutorial for Fates in video format would be popular on YouTube, especially with the Europeans soon getting their hands on the game.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Mangs

[Dark Holy Elf]

Using Rescue to show it off makes sense. While there are some high-level strats you can do with it, for a more casual player I would simply recommend using it to get one of your own units out of a dire situation when you have no other recourse. That's the type of thing that likely won't happen more than 4 times a game, but it's huge when it does.

-Azura's Str growth is actually pretty good, and while I wouldn't use her for primary combat much, she can actually contribute some pretty decent dual strikes, especially if you get her lance rank up in Chapter 15.

-I believe (though someone else should confirm) that Azura's Foreign Princess only affects "Invader" enemies (i.e. foreign to this plane of existence, not just from an enemy country). However, it's gained so late that this isn't really important anyway.

-Regarding the enemies guarding the initial opening, it's probably worth mentioning that Pairup is really useful for stopping them from dual striking the hell out of you. (I was actually kinda impressed that Effie could survive without that on Normal.)

-For Seal Defence, while it works if the enemy misses, it doesn't work if you kill them instantly on a counter (even if they hit). That's a bit difficult to do here, but is huge in Chapter 10 (e.g. with Camilla), so it would be good to mention it then. :) Dunno if the C10 enemies have Seal Defence on Normal, though.

-Nyx's low skill merits a mention of Heartseeker. While you often don't always want to fight at melee with her (particularly against range 1 physical enemies), it's still an excellent boost and if you can survive a counter or just need to finish someone off it can sometimes be worth it to turn a 75-80 hit into 95-100.

"You no longer have to worry about being the victim of surprise buttsex. Thank you Fates." :)

Edited April 1, 2016 by Dark Holy Elf

[Radiant Dragon]

...I never knew you could seize with non-Corrin units in normal chapters. I assumed that was only a thing in My Castle battles, where Corrin isn't forced to be deployed.

[Mangs]

Took me 6-8 hours of editing work, but I am so happy to be done with this!

[Dark Holy Elf]

Nice work. Certainly the chapter I was most interested in seeing so far. I like how you highlight the effective enemy phase which keeps the map under control.

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

Do Hinata and Oboro really never charge on Normal? It's absolutely worth killing them early on higher difficulties so they won't be in the way later when they charge with a bunch of dudes accompanying them.

Also for anyone not on Normal, you may want to give Camilla an Iron Axe if you intend to have her bop Oboro so she actually gets the double.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Hinata never charges on Hard either; I just ignored him myself. (Oboro does charge on the other hand.) Not sure about Lunatic.

[joshcja]

Hinata never charges on Hard either; I just ignored him myself. (Oboro does charge on the other hand.) Not sure about Lunatic.

He goes for blood on lunatic.

Edit: So does oboro.

Edited April 10, 2016 by joshcja