Concrete and easy question about Apotheosis

[Vascela]

I don't think everything is hack forged.

http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Awakening_Enemy_Data:_Apotheosis

That implies some aren't ++.

Sniper boss is easy to KO with V/V since you don't need to double him at all. If you can be in a situation where you can do 20 damage per swing, then you can just attack on PP in 1 range then trump his Vantage+ with your own Vantage on EP. It works because unlike his mob, he doesn't have counter. It's nice that 20 damage isn't an incredible feat. If you have a 100% DS pair, then you don't even need to do that 20 per swing. I think my FeMU x Chrom run had FeMU doing 19 twice, but Chrom covered the the missing damage.

Of course, none of the snipers have pass. So you could do it that way. But the problem is in the final wave for turn count. For wave 3, it might be realistic since turn counts are not a factor and you can gib the tricksters on turn 1 + GKs have a delayed start waddling through terrain (hell, you could have a unit pull aggro around the top half of the lake too if you were desperate).

[Zelgius150]

For what I can see, the only non-forged weapons are the ones you can only find on event tiles/barracks and, of course, regalia weapons.

As for the damage I can do to that monstrous sniper... I've just made a quick check. Take for example:

Lead Chrom+Sumia-> 4+12+12=28. But that is, of course, if Sumia wishes to cooperate (% is high enough) and if they receive boosts from Rally Spectrum, Rally Heart, Rally Strength and Rally Magic. I can also hope for Aether or Luna, and that's coming from only one of my pairs.

I think that when I start playing, for at least the 3 first secret waves I'll always be able to figure out something. I just need to be prepared for all the enemies I'll have to face, and with that I mean optimal pairing up, optimal skill selection, optimal weapon selection, etc. I'll play with a team which was not trained with Apotheosis in mind, but at least, all of them went through ALL their classes, so I've a huge amount of flexibility with skills and reclassing now :)

Edited April 9, 2016 by Zelgius150

[Zelgius150]

Sorry for the doublepost, I've a new question. I found this long ago:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/643003-fire-emblem-awakening/65700409

The sixth post of the page has detailed information about the exact amount of HP each staff heals. So is Balmwood Staff really that good? And does it heal the user for the same amount? Thanks!

[Vascela]

Items from barracks/shiny tiles aren't map breaking relative to the stuff you can buy.

[Zelgius150]

Soo, I already started the mission. I finally closed the sniper from the four sides, and that'll let me relocate my characters for the next wave, as well as getting new weapons and items from Chrom. Mind you, it only took me two turns from the start of secret wave 2 to actually do it, all thanks to Galeforce.

Now my question is: do Miracle activate with Dual Strikes from the paired-up units? I hope it doesn't.

EDIT: And another question would be... My Morgan has now 85 max HP. So she'll activate Vantage at exactly 42 HP or less, right? I want to be really, really sure about all.

EDIT: And yet another one: Do area-healing staves like Fortify or Goddess Staff heal also paired-up units? I don't remember ever using those staves in any mission before.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Zelgius150

[Vascela]

Support units ignore enemy skill activation. So they ignore Miracle and Pavgis+. Pretty nice. Yeah, vantage procs below half hp, but you're better off running 1 HP setups for vengeance. You can get away with higher HP values depending on the conditions (but why would you?). I suppose you could also run a proc stack vantage, but that isn't a gamble I'd be willing to take. You're better off taking out vantage and running something else while maintaining full [enough] HP to take a hit when needed.

Don't have knowledge on the AoE healing staves, but that is something you could test while your on the map right now with those staves in your inventory. The good news is that if you run galeforce, you can get away with healing (so you can elixir or get healed the same turn as a kill).

[Zelgius150]

The thing is that I've it all calculated. For example, if Morgan gets hurt by one of Anna's berserker "bodyguards", then her Vengeance lets her damage Anna for 33+33 damage. I can try to shoot her with my future four snipers from afar and then let her attack Morgan (taking her 20 HP recovery into account) and finish her off with my own Vantage. Another example would be letting my Morgan getting attacked by one of the "boss sorcerers". Since he'll have all HP already he won't recover any, and then Morgan will destroy him with four Vengeance attacks. As you may have guessed, she's using a forged Celica's Gale, unbreakable because of Armsthrift.

What I love about it is that Vengeance always activates, and I like to depend on certain bets. Morgan is the only one with the skill anyway, and her partner can take damage for her if needed.

Good idea there, I'll test Fortify while the sniper remains trapped.

Galeforce? Oh man, I LOVE that skill. Cynthia and Lucina, dark flier and sniper, respectively, both with Aether and Luna, form a very formidable pair. When I was preparing for the mission I was always considering worse-case scenarios, and now I'm pleasingly surprised to see how they raze their enemies to the ground. And yeah, I also use Galeforce for defensive purposes. Hell, it even lets me save Rescue uses!

[Vascela]

If I phrased it like this: you can restock to ~100 Celica's Gale after every wave, armsthrift doesn't look too necessary does it? If you need to crunch in extra something, AT is the first thing to go.

[Zelgius]

When you say future snipers, does it have to be in-game characters? You could train up a spotpass Sniper!Ike and save it in the logbook for future Apo runs in later saves. I found pairing him with Pr. Marth effective in non-LB Apo runs.

[Zelgius150]

I can't restock after every wave. Not until now that I've trapped the secret wave 2 sniper boss.

By future snipers I mean that Chrom, Virion and Cynthia will be changing to sniper class mid game :) All so I can use more brave bows on the berserker boss and attack Anna from afar with double bows. They're going to see a rain of arrows.

[Zelgius150]

Well, I'm right now in secret wave 4, doing calculations to get the best possible course of action against that monstrous berserker, and I have an important question. When Luna activates, does it take into account the added defense from weapons (in this case Helswath) and the terrain (in this case the throne)?

For example, let's say I attack with a Sniper Chrom, 89 attack factoring Aggressor. The berserker boss has a base defense of 59, plus +5 for the Helswath and +2 for the throne. So Chrom would be doing him only 5 damage per hit, factoring both Aegis+ and Dragonskin. But if he activates Luna, then the berserker's defense would count as only half of it.... that means.... 29 or 33?

Thanks in advance, it's pretty important to me.

[shadowofchaos]

Luna halves your total defense. Rallies, tonics, pair up bonuses, and weapon bonuses.

So that goes same with pulling it off for enemies. It'll halve their total defense.

I'm not sure about terrain, however.

Edited April 14, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Zelgius150]

BEAT IT. BEAT IT. BEAT IIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

It wasn't really that difficult, but since I didn't want to ever restart the chapter, I was very very anxious during all the ordeal. Doing dozens of calculations, measuring each turn to the minimum detail. It was 24 hours of chapter count, plus all the hours I spent without the game, just doing calculations, even looking at it when going and coming back from work.

I don't want to sound arrogant or self-important at all, it's not my intention, but I've to remember that I used the very same team I used during the main adventure and without Limit Breaker. Granted, when deciding the final classes for my team, I also did some nice calculations so I could optimize the S-pairings I made out of pure "romanticism", but it's also true that I didn't want to deviate a lot from the characters' natural classes. For example, I wanted Sumia and Cynthia to ride a pegasus. And I didn't want to go through the trouble to check all possible class combinations again for Apotheosis.

Even so, the directions you, the users of Serenes Forest, gave me, were invaluable. I'm a bit of a stubborn, so I readily discarded the option of using "rallybots" at first, but I couldn't have done it without them. And you also answered me a lot of important questions. With all my sincerity: thank you!!

By the way, I completed secret wave 4 in only 5 turns and the final wave in only 4 turns :) It was Chrom who smashed Anna, using a Double Bow from afar and with Vaike paired up with him. They could do very serious damage to Anna without any skill activation, but Chrom decided to reward all my efforts and activated Aether! Then Olivia danced for him, and he activated Aether once again! :D To have reliable chances to hit Anna -something that worried me-, I just put Miriel by the side of her with Hex and Anathema. You gave me the idea for that, too!

[Vascela]

It wasn't really that difficult, you say? Does this mean instead of no LB, you're going to do no dlc/no rally or no dlc/no braves next? Might be a bit more satisfying for you.

[Zelgius150]

Sorry, what I did mean is -it was difficult, but I suffered it a lot mainly because of the inability to save between waves of enemies. And I play in classical mode so one single mistake and it was all over. I did some "minor" mistakes, and I blamed me a lot for it. It was five intense days of not knowing if I would ever be capable of achieving it. And it was my first time challenging Apotheosis, so I looked at all the enemies' data beforehand and also got some nice help from people here.

I know. Strong pairings, children, good knowledge of the DLC... Are probably all ingredients to do it even better. But believe me or not, I'm already satisfied, haha.

[Friyeeday]

Soo, I'm finally going to face that insane chapter, and I wanted to know if the turn count resets after every wave of enemies or if it keeps the same count for all of the mission. I'm asking to know if I can make good use of skills like Lucky 7. I'm going for a non-Limit Breaker Secret Path run so I think that boost would come in really handy in dealing with things like Anna or that monstrous berserker....

Thanks in advance ;)

Some people just want that extra oomph for challenges...