why are so many professors

[Ansem]

incompetent old white men of privilege?

as intelligent as they can be do they not realize how fucking detached from reality they are? im not complaining about a grade, but this fucking guy who i met with to discus potential lab work. his research seems interesting but i have no lab experience because its really hard to get a position at my university since everyone is going for it and its a rite of passage here. so i need to start somewhere, and i was hoping this would be it. i emailed him yesterday with my schedule for next fall and he replied back that he was going to email me today(bullshit) that he interviewed a few more students and that hes gonna go with one of them. when i met with this guy he was talking at me about some physics shit i did not even know about(usually people in my major take classical physics junior year) and this was a bio lab. so he might have sensed i didnt know a lot and that might have turned him off. i met with his grad students and one was personable and the other one looked at me funny when i told her i had no research experience. one fucking problem i have with people is how self-centered their views are. ofc you can only see the world through your own eyes, but when you interact with someone you should have an idea of how they feel, like try to understand them. she came from some university outside of america and not stony brook she didnt fucking understand how difficult it is to get a position in research over here. and i get that its not their job to baby me or anything, their research could be important and they need someone with experience. but they were in my position once upon a time, and someone helped them up. i hope to orient my career around this, teaching and getting undergrads out of this vicious cycle of needing experience to reach for opportunities. this will be my way of giving every ignored email and every rejection a big fuck you.

[Redwall]

Have you been attending office hours for the classes you're currently taking? It's easier to find a position if the professor has a good impression of you and knows you're serious. The only reason I had an undergrad research position was that I got the top grade in my instructor's class (I was not the smartest, I just worked harder than everyone else). Before speaking to them, read at least a few of their papers, and don't just stop at the research description on the website. There are plenty of professors who could use a bit more help but don't broadcast.

[Ansem]

thats not enough, the professors that teach the class i am taking have full labs because these courses are high demand. my friends and i usually email people in other depts including but not limited to those researchers that teach grad courses. and it is waste to read papers because the ones that do reply to emails usually reply with "sorry my lab is full." and im trying to go for efficiency here and i feel that the emails i write based on their website description is pushing it since that requires effort to and i should be sending out form emails to as many professors as i can. the problem with reading work/lab description is the fact that the last paper that the researcher could have published might hav ebeen years ago and the webpage may not be updated.

[Redwall]

thats not enough, the professors that teach the class i am taking have full labs because these courses are high demand. my friends and i usually email people in other depts including but not limited to those researchers that teach grad courses. and it is waste to read papers because the ones that do reply to emails usually reply with "sorry my lab is full." and im trying to go for efficiency here and i feel that the emails i write based on their website description is pushing it since that requires effort to and i should be sending out form emails to as many professors as i can.

Would you mind posting an example of the emails you've been writing (with personal info removed)? Maybe I or someone else could help you revise.

the problem with reading work/lab description is the fact that the last paper that the researcher could have published might hav ebeen years ago and the webpage may not be updated.

You can use Google Scholar to find more recent papers of theirs.

[Integrity]

old entrenched white guys are the worst in every way in academia tbh i can't wait until they're supplanted

[Ansem]

Would you mind posting an example of the emails you've been writing (with personal info removed)? Maybe I or someone else could help you revise.

You can use Google Scholar to find more recent papers of theirs.

the head of the pharma dept here is accustomed to these things and he looks over emails before they are sent out and he said they are fine. great guy, one of the few old white men i know that have not lost touch of reality, but if you're curious,

https://gyazo.com/02aae14caa8cba4aca02b881a5483aa3

https://gyazo.com/12f296dea1b3e55493ca12fdf08eafb2

are just an example of two based on dept page and word of mouth. these two replied saying their labs are full, and im sure you can see why i am adamantly against reading papers and putting effort into an email when i get a few sentences back.

[Ansem]

old entrenched white guys are the worst in every way in academia tbh i can't wait until they're supplanted

UGH

hurry up and get your phd so you can replace them

[sirmola]

old entrenched white guys are the worst in every way in academia tbh i can't wait until they're supplanted

I think the problem has less to do with old white men in particular, and more to do with an "ivory Tower" mentality that you often see in academia. old people are just the most vulnerable to it because they have been in academia the longest. Also, old people are often quite jaded. However, there are plenty of exelent exeptions. I just had an old, white, professor who pointed out a very similar thing to what the OP pointed out (that privelege is more impotant than it perhaps should be), so it's far from universal.

Edited May 4, 2016 by sirmola

[Thor Odinson]

Switch to my major, we have a bunch of profs that are easy to talk to

Seriously though that sucks, man, I wish I could help, but I have a feel the prof/research situation in our majors are quite different---it's probably a lot more in demand in bio-related fields, since there's not a whole lot of CS grad students to start with

Maybe worth a shot: look on Ratemyprofessor in your field to see if you can get in contact with more personable profs? Though they might not do the same research you want, so this is tough. hm.

There is definitely a high wall around academia.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[Redwall]

the head of the pharma dept here is accustomed to these things and he looks over emails before they are sent out and he said they are fine. great guy, one of the few old white men i know that have not lost touch of reality, but if you're curious,

https://gyazo.com/02aae14caa8cba4aca02b881a5483aa3

https://gyazo.com/12f296dea1b3e55493ca12fdf08eafb2

are just an example of two based on dept page and word of mouth. these two replied saying their labs are full, and im sure you can see why i am adamantly against reading papers and putting effort into an email when i get a few sentences back.

It sounds like your pharma head means well, but those emails are too long and far too fluffy. For example, when you write stuff like "I am a little curious[...]about how tedious [receptor synthesis is]," many professors will hit delete immediately. They won't necessarily be impressed when someone emails them aspects of their research they already know (no offense).

Cut to the chase in your emails: explain who you are; how your background in the sciences is; what you can offer them and why you're interested in working for them (probably the most important of all); and end with a request to meet during their office hours, and thank them for your time as you did. You should not need more than eight sentences to do this.

If it doesn't work out for you this term, definitely take some smaller classes on more specialized topics in your fields of interest, and ask the instructors (whom you may eventually work for?) to let you bypass the prereqs if you haven't met them. When I was an undergrad, one of the grad students in my lab had only, like, one term of very pedestrian research experience as an undergrad, and still managed to get into that particular grad program, which was fairly selective, so not all hope is lost if you cannot yet find any openings.

[Ansem]

Cut to the chase in your emails: explain who you are; how your background in the sciences is; what you can offer them and why you're interested in working for them (probably the most important of all); and end with a request to meet during their office hours, and thank them for your time as you did. You should not need more than eight sentences to do this.

yeah, i dont talk about myself at all aside from my major, but what more would i mention? my own academic related interests/specialization i wish to study is all i feel that is relevant to share. regarding background in science, i guess i have a little more material to work with now that i have more classes under my belt. im not sure how i can express why im interested in working for them any better than "i've seen this in my class and it interested me."

Seriously though that sucks, man, I wish I could help, but I have a feel the prof/research situation in our majors are quite different---it's probably a lot more in demand in bio-related fields, since there's not a whole lot of CS grad students to start with

i feel the main problem is that im competing with premeds which really sucks since a good amount of them likely wont pursue research as an MD while research is so important in academia, what i wish to pursue.

[Thor Odinson]

i feel the main problem is that im competing with premeds which really sucks since a good amount of them likely wont pursue research as an MD while research is so important in academia, what i wish to pursue.

There's a lot of premeds in this school too, so that doubly blows. I hope it goes well.

[Lord Raven]

Switch to my major, we have a bunch of profs that are easy to talk to

what, the math department was nothing but shitty everywhere i went to school

i feel the main problem is that im competing with premeds which really sucks since a good amount of them likely wont pursue research as an MD while research is so important in academia, what i wish to pursue.

Are you studying in biology?

also this is a MAJOR selling point - emphasize the ever loving hell out of this. Don't throw other students under the bus but also make it a point of emphasis that you're firmly going towards a PhD

the old white people in departments shtick is getting better thankfully, and I'm thankful the old white people in my departments (undergrad and grad school) were relatively accomodating. I say that as I realize that my PIs in undergrad were an old black dude that made bank and a young white dude. Also helps that younger dudes ("younger", ~40-45) are leaving academia early.

Have you tried applying to summer internships? What about summer labs? A friend of mine was in the same boat as you and he asked if he could be sort of a free summer intern and if he could observe the goings on in lab to join the fray in the fall.

I always found it odd that a bio research group wouldn't have enough people. I come from a school where we nicknamed one of the labs the "Summers Plantation" due to the number of people he had working in his lab - undergrads and grads, and it was a very diverse group which is where the plantation name came from (yes it's awful, my friends are terrible and they make a lot of self-deprecating racist jokes).

Edited May 4, 2016 by Lord Raven

[Ansem]

working in the summer is not an option since i cannot afford the commute back and forth from home. summer programs require letters of recs from PIs you've worked with in the past. i can try unis in the city where i live, but i have no lab experience which means i need to be trained. but i dont even attend the universities that i would apply to in the city and there is very little to gain from putting investment into someone that will leave three months later.

i'll still try this option after finals so we'll see

and yes, most of the classes i am taking are bio classes

Edited May 4, 2016 by Sparks

[Redwall]

im not sure how i can express why im interested in working for them any better than "i've seen this in my class and it interested me."

From how you expressed this sentiment in your emails, it's difficult for someone who doesn't know you to determine whether you're sincerely interested or just BSing. Here's a good example of someone succinctly expressing her passion for her field. Read it, and imagine coming up with an outline for a hypothetical personal statement of your own. Any email you send expressing interest in joining a research group as an undergrad should have a similar thrust: using a small number of specific examples in your education (as opposed to a larger-looking number, like what you wrote) to highlight why you would be motivated to do good work for the group.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Redwall

[Lord Raven]

summer programs require letters of recs from PIs you've worked with in the past.

If you've had no prior experience, then a letter of rec from two professors is sufficient. If you apply to enough places you'll eventually get something

[Thor Odinson]

what, the math department was nothing but shitty everywhere i went to school

I'm Compsci before math, man

Applied math was like the side major I took because it's 4 courses on top of CS and I get a second degree, my grad degree is pure CS and so is my job

Although I know quite a number of cool math profs in my school too but we're...fairly decently ranked in applied math I think?

(but more importantly I go the the same school as OP so I'm actually talking about the profs in our school)

Edited May 4, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[Ansem]

If you've had no prior experience, then a letter of rec from two professors is sufficient. If you apply to enough places you'll eventually get something

yeah im going to work on this. my cell bio professor is literally the best i've had the whole time i've been here, and its actually because hes so sociable and inviting. he legit said on the first day to come to his office hours a few times so he could give out letters of rec, and i love that he understand. hes assistant so i think hes still true to roots and hasnt forgotten how it was like to be an undergrad since hes closer to his career than tenured professors.

but thank you everyone for your help. i originally posted this here expecting to not get serious responses but im surprised. i guess the textwall scared the shitposters away.

^ it is http://college.usatoday.com/2016/04/29/top-schools-for-applied-mathematics/

also lol @ math dept you mean the foreign language dept?

('cause all the professors are foreign and cant into english)

no disrespect tho they are so smart since they arent american

Edited May 4, 2016 by Sparks

[Thor Odinson]

^ it is http://college.usatoday.com/2016/04/29/top-schools-for-applied-mathematics/

also lol @ math dept you mean the foreign language dept?

('cause all the professors are foreign and cant into english)

no disrespect tho they are so smart since they arent american

Hey man I find it useful to be able to go to office hours in my native tongue :P

(i have legit straight up asked profs shit in Chinese because it's easier on both of us)

Edited May 4, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[General Banzai]

Pretty much all my profs were awesome, especially the old white guys