Zelda OoT Fire Temple Controversy

[Alex95]

I managed to find a copy of a first edition run of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time earlier (it's gold!) and I made it to the Fire Temple which I keep trying to call "Fire Emblem."

The chant in the temple (among other things) spurred a lot of controversy back in the day, as many people claimed it sounded similar to an Islamic chant. Now, I'm not Islamic and I don't mind the chant. It adds a whole 'nother creepiness factor to the game, which is nice (though I guess it would've made more sense in the Shadow Temple or Well).

But it just sounds like a regular chant to me. I don't get why people get so caught up in this religion removal stuff, even if the stuff isn't explicitly stated to be religious. I don't mind seeing Islamic, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, and however many religions there are in media. I'm trying very hard not to go into "full-on-rant-mode" here, haha.

What do you think? Are you someone who cannot stand seeing something of a different religion (I'm Christian and I don't mind)? Or are you like me and just play the game/watch the movie/etc.?

Also, can someone tell me how rare the 1st edition carts of OoT are?

[BrightBow]

I'm pretty sure that there was no such controversy.

Edited May 18, 2016 by BrightBow

[Elieson]

It was according to this.

[Jedi]

If I recall they took it out, before anyone called it controversial because they didn't want to potentially have anything come down on them because of it.

I lack my source for this currently however.

[maybe]

i'm pretty sure it's because nintendo wasn't allowed to have religious things in their games

like, the original name for link to the past was "triforce of the gods" but they had to change it because it had god in the title

[Alex95]

It was according to this.

Yeah, I suppose controversy is nothing new to the Zelda series. Or any series for that matter.

Make a game or a movie or a book, people are going to find something to fuss over.

[Alex95]

Pardon the double post. maybe posted at the same time I did.

i'm pretty sure it's because nintendo wasn't allowed to have religious things in their games

like, the original name for link to the past was "triforce of the gods" but they had to change it because it had god in the title

True, though it could also be a reference to the actual Hylian Goddesses themselves. That's what I mean, though. There's not enough info, so people will often assume in the direction that gets more attention. Religion just happens to often be on the bad end of it...

"Triforce of the Goddesses" might've been better? Although were Din, Nayru, and Farore around in ALttP, or did they originate in OoT?

[Moblin Major General]

I have the second edition that's gray but still has the contro things in it. The other main thing was changing the symbol of the Mirror Shield (it had a crescent and star on it, something very sacred to Muslims).

[Zera]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwGVb8Ivb9E

This is the original Fire Temple music, which contains a sample of Islamic chanting taken from an open sound library.

However, Nintendo has a “no real-life religious references” policy, so when they found out they changed it for all future copies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5hpbYg22yA

This is the changed version that is currently used.

However, the "controversy" is little more than an urban legend, as Nintendo changed the music before the release date.

The only reason some copies have the original music is because they were already manufactured and it would've been expensive to replace them.

Why are you playing the original and not Ocarina of Time 3D?

Edited May 18, 2016 by Zera

[Acacia Sgt]

Pardon the double post. maybe posted at the same time I did.

True, though it could also be a reference to the actual Hylian Goddesses themselves. That's what I mean, though. There's not enough info, so people will often assume in the direction that gets more attention. Religion just happens to often be on the bad end of it...

"Triforce of the Goddesses" might've been better? Although were Din, Nayru, and Farore around in ALttP, or did they originate in OoT?

I don't think the word Goddesses would've been allowed either.

[Ken Masters]

May I remind you, that's not the only time OoT played with elements of the muslim culture.

Do you remember the original Gerudo symbol? Before it was changed like Fire's Temple chanting and Ganondorf's red blood?

Hmmm.... doesn't it look too similar to... this?

Yeah

That's the Islamic emblem.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Ken Masters

[Zera]

Power Master, why don't you add a poll asking which version of Fire Temple's music we prefer?

[Anacybele]

May I remind you, that's not the only time OoT played with elements of the muslim culture.

Do you remember the original Gerudo symbol? Before it was changed like Fire's Temple chanting and Ganondorf's red blood?

Hmmm.... doesn't it look too similar to... this?

Yeah

That's the Islamic emblem.

Except the moon is facing the opposite direction and the star is entirely different. This was a stupid change. The chanting though, that was fine to take out since it really did have Islam stuffs in it.

[Ken Masters]

Except the moon is facing the opposite direction and the star is entirely different. This was a stupid change. The chanting though, that was fine to take out since it really did have Islam stuffs in it.

I wasn't saying it was right to take it out, just pointing out they did.

And personally, I do think it was inspired on the muslim symbol. Hell, the entire Gerudo section is, to me, heavily inspired by the Umayyad conquest of Hispania, not only because the song is a Flamenco, or because the environment looks a lot like the Tabernas desert, the architecture of the fortress is very similar to that of the Taberna's zone... but also because of the strong muslim influence around.

[Acacia Sgt]

Except the moon is facing the opposite direction and the star is entirely different. This was a stupid change. The chanting though, that was fine to take out since it really did have Islam stuffs in it.

Actually, the position of the crescent and the shape of the star isn't static.

The flag of Azerbaijan doesn't have a 5-point star.

Mauritania's faces up, not right.

Uzbekistan's doesn't even have one star, but many.

So the Gerudo one could still been open for controversy, hence the change.

[Lantairu]

The islamic prayer was removed not just for Nintendo's "No religion in games" policy at the time, it also could've offended Muslims because that chant being so sacred to Islam being portrayed in a hell-like place full of dragons, fire, and demon like creatures would offend some Muslims. Also, iirc it is highly sacreligious to be saying that prayer with music or any background noise, so the fact that it was just being used as an audio sample in a music track that plays in a fiery place of death was a bit of an oversight on Nintendo's part. Even though I am a religious Christian, I don't care what kind of religious anything devs put into their games, as long as it isn't being insulting to Christians. Now, just because it's portraying Christians in a negative light, that doesn't mean it's insulting. Completely disrespecting or mocking the culture or beliefs is what I mean. Regardless, I'll still play the game or watch the movie, I just might be bothered.

[Alex95]

Why are you playing the original and not Ocarina of Time 3D?

I've already beaten the 3D version, but I never played the original legitimately.

[blah the Prussian]

Actually, the position of the crescent and the shape of the star isn't static.

The flag of Azerbaijan doesn't have a 5-point star.

Mauritania's faces up, not right.

Uzbekistan's doesn't even have one star, but many.

So the Gerudo one could still been open for controversy, hence the change.

This, basically. The symbol for the Gerido,vthough, simply doesn't make sense. The Gerudo, except for being in a desert, aren't like any Islamic civilization in history, simply because they're matriarchal. There was some controversy over them being based on Gypsies, IIRC. The Gerudo also aren't associated with religion in any way. So I do actually agree with changing the emblem, but because it doesn't make any sense from a design perspective, not because it's offensive; it's more bizarre than anything. It would be like having a proud warrior slime being culture from Pluto have the Hammer and Sickle as their emblem for no reason at all.

[animeapple]

the first edition of ocarina of time gold cart is not really rare

im a video game collector and i have seen the carts constantly they sell for an okay amount due to popularity of the game and the first print run is the most played version for glitch speed runs

gold ocarina of time sells for about 20 dollars... so no its not rare... id say uncommon but not rare. ocarina of time's first run was very large so.... yeah

[Acacia Sgt]

This, basically. The symbol for the Gerido,vthough, simply doesn't make sense. The Gerudo, except for being in a desert, aren't like any Islamic civilization in history, simply because they're matriarchal. There was some controversy over them being based on Gypsies, IIRC. The Gerudo also aren't associated with religion in any way. So I do actually agree with changing the emblem, but because it doesn't make any sense from a design perspective, not because it's offensive; it's more bizarre than anything. It would be like having a proud warrior slime being culture from Pluto have the Hammer and Sickle as their emblem for no reason at all.

Well, that's the thing about emblems, symbols, and the like. They can have countless meanings since not everybody will see them the same. Due to all the possible circumstances. In this case, the issue is more about symbols gaining a meaning that resonates stronger in the mindset of the general populace.

Bringing your example of the Hammer and Sickle. Today its association with Communism is so big, that even if the symbol is used for another thing, even with a full sensible explanation and stuff... people will still think of the Soviet Union, Communism, etc, when they see it. Though in this case it goes both-ways. If one knows people are biased to see it in a certain way, then it must be taken into consideration.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Acacia Sgt

[Alex95]

the first edition of ocarina of time gold cart is not really rare

im a video game collector and i have seen the carts constantly they sell for an okay amount due to popularity of the game and the first print run is the most played version for glitch speed runs

gold ocarina of time sells for about 20 dollars... so no its not rare... id say uncommon but not rare. ocarina of time's first run was very large so.... yeah

Oh, well, that's a bummer. I wasn't going to sell the cart or anything (though since I just beat it a few minutes ago, I'm probably not going to pick it up again for a while), but that does put a bit of a damper on my "rare" find.

Regardless, I'm happy we found it. There's a "Collector's Edition" gold, holographic cart of Majora's Mask at the same game store I'm thinking of getting next, assuming no one picked it up yet...

Bringing your example of the Hammer and Sickle. Today its association with Communism is so big, that even if the symbol is used for another thing, even with a full sensible explanation and stuff... people will still think of the Soviet Union, Communism, etc, when they see it. Though in this case it goes both-ways. If one knows people are biased to see it in a certain way, then it must be taken into consideration.

...I would've just thought the Hammer and Sickle would be either just that or part of a building/farming community. I'm so out of touch with the world it seems, it's not funny.

[blah the Prussian]

Well, that's the thing about emblems, symbols, and the like. They can have countless meanings since not everybody will see them the same. Due to all the possible circumstances. In this case, the issue is more about symbols gaining a meaning that resonates stronger in the mindset of the general populace.

Bringing your example of the Hammer and Sickle. Today its association with Communism is so big, that even if the symbol is used for another thing, even with a full sensible explanation and stuff... people will still think of the Soviet Union, Communism, etc, when they see it. Though in this case it goes both-ways. If one knows people are biased to see it in a certain way, then it must be taken into consideration.

Well yeah, the same applies to the Crescent though.

[Loki Laufeyson]

The funny thing about the OG edition's chanting, is that it was stock sound effects they used from one of those old stock sound effects generators. It just HAPPENED to sound like Islamic chanting. Like the sample was kind of legit chanting or some junk. There wasnt any actual uproar about it, but Nintendo decided to change it to avoid potential uproar in later editions of the game. (those released from 1999 and onward, i think.) The Gerudo symbol was also changed because of reasons already discussed (which would have likely caused more uproar than the chanting. Having the Islamic symbol be used on a tribe of people who are coded as bad guys for most of the game is....yeaaaaahhh.) and they also put Ganondorf's bloody cough as green.

My original cart is the OG version (though its not gold) and still has the chants in it. Its actually a bit jarring to play the cart and then play one of the other versions, like my OoT3DS.

[Lantairu]

The funny thing about the OG edition's chanting, is that it was stock sound effects they used from one of those old stock sound effects generators. It just HAPPENED to sound like Islamic chanting. Like the sample was kind of legit chanting or some junk. There wasnt any actual uproar about it, but Nintendo decided to change it to avoid potential uproar in later editions of the game. (those released from 1999 and onward, i think.) The Gerudo symbol was also changed because of reasons already discussed (which would have likely caused more uproar than the chanting. Having the Islamic symbol be used on a tribe of people who are coded as bad guys for most of the game is....yeaaaaahhh.) and they also put Ganondorf's bloody cough as green.

My original cart is the OG version (though its not gold) and still has the chants in it. Its actually a bit jarring to play the cart and then play one of the other versions, like my OoT3DS.

If you have a grey copy of Version 1.0 on N64, that is actually quite rare. Most 1.0 versions of the game are gold, around half the 1.1 versions are gold, and very few N64 1.2 versions, which is the first version to remove the chanting and censor the blood I believe, are gold.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Man you actually made me drag out my cart. Its actually version 1.1, but it must have been among the first of those produced (due to me getting mine within a month or so of release). Though i could have sworn i did Swordless Link once. Unless it was another glitch i did...it was so long ago.