The Support System

[Melaine]

Hello! I've been doing a bit of testing, and I believe I've finally figured out how earning support points works. Since I couldn't find this information on Serenes Forest yet I thought I'd share my findings. ^^

Points required to unlock support:

Normal C = 30 B = 40 A = 40 S = 60

Fast C = 20 B = 30 A = 40 S = 60

Points gained by various actions:

Tag Team/Pair Up +6

Dual Attack/Dual Support +2

Adjacent/Staff/Sing +4

Seed of Trust/My Castle +12

After each map, points are rounded as follows:

0-6 --> 0

8 --> 8

10-16 --> 12

18-28 --> 24

30-36 --> 36

Points are rounded both before and after being added to previously earned points. If you earn 8+8 on two maps, you'll end up with 12 points, not 16.

There are two different limits to how many points can be earned on a single map:

Pair of units: 36

Single unit: 58

Seeds of Trust are not subject to limits.

If a single unit earns more than 58 points on a map, the points will be divided:

Support 1: 30 points (rounded to 36)

Support 2: 28 points (rounded to 24) if no third support exists

18 points (rounded to 24) if a third support exists

Support 3: 10 points (rounded to 12)

Support 4: 0 points

Priority is determined by which pair scored the highest points. In case of a tie, the unit higher up on the support list gains priority.

If two units compete over another, one of them may end up not unlocking any support at all. Example:

Hana x Silas C: 30 points, support unlocked

Kagero x Silas C: 30 points, no support because Silas already had his 30 points with Hana

Kagero x Azama C: 30 points, no support because Silas has priority over Azama

Some additional notes:

Follow-Up attacks do not give more points than a single attack.

Even if Dual Support activates twice in one battle, the points earned are still +2.

"My Castle" includes the Private Quarters, Conversations, and giving Accessories.

(Edit: Noticed I made a mistake when 8 points are gained. Hopefully I got it right this time.)

(Edit 2: Added information about the point limit for single units.)

(Edit 3: Fixed a sentence that may have been more confusing than it needed to be.)

Edited June 28, 2016 by Melaine

[tintinfrost]

Thanks for your post, I've been trying to find a breakdown of the support system. I've been grinding supports for Revelations and it is taking forever.

I had a few questions.

Regarding limits, I am a bit confused about the limits for both pairs and single units. Hoping you could clarify.

Say I pair up unit A and B. They go out and kill 6 enemies, making the hearts appear 6 times. That would equal to 36 points right? Then after that, would A and B not be able to gain anymore points from pairing up? So would that mean A and B are both at 36 points and have 12 points (58-36) left that they could use to pair up with C?

Just a bit lost regarding the limits.

Is there just no way to get more than 36 points for a support relationship per map, making you have to do at least 2 maps to get from C --> B and B --> A?

It also does not seem like points stack?

For instance if you earn 36 points in a single map to go from Nothing --> C, you'd have 6 points leftover. Then you would only have to do another map and get another 36 points, putting you at 42 points, which should make you go from C-->B, but I have not seen that as the case?

Thanks!

Edit: Pairing up A and B, going out and killing a bunch of enemies and getting capped at 36 points, then using a seed of trust, would put you at 48 points seems to be the only way I've found so far to only have to do a single map clear.

Edited June 28, 2016 by tintinfrost

[Melaine]

Hello, tintinfrost! Thank you for your question, I'll do my best to clear up any confusion. c:

First of all, the limits do not actually apply until after you clear the map. So using your example:

Unit A and Unit B kill 6 enemies, gaining 36 points and reaching their limit with each other. They now have 22 points left. However, if they gain more than 22 points with Unit C, say 28 points, Units A+B will not gain 36 points with each other, but 30. Then those 30 points are rounded back to 36. Units A+C keep their 28 points, but then they are rounded down to 24.

Simplified:

A+B gained 36 points and kept 30 which were rounded to 36.

A+C gained 28 points and kept 28 which were rounded to 24.

We can also add Unit D with Unit A, let's say they gained 14 points. In this case, Units A+C will not keep their 28 points, but only 18. Since those 18 points are still rounded to 24, in the end it makes no difference.

Simplified:

A+B gained 36 points and kept 30 which were rounded to 36.

A+C gained 28 points and kept 18 which were rounded to 24.

A+D gained 14 points and kept 10 which were rounded to 12.

So although Unit A earned 78 points total, only 58 of those points actually counted, but because of how those 58 points were rounded, in the end 72 points were gained.

As for the scenario where you have earned 36 points in one map, and then gain 6 points on the next, that certainly had me puzzled for a while. But it's how the points are rounded, again. If you gain anything less than 8 points, you gain nothing. So those 6 points, even though they should be enough to put you at 42, are being rounded right back down to 0 before being added to your 36 points.

And you are correct, aside from using Seeds of Trust there is no way to unlock B to S supports in a single map. Knowing how the points are being divided can help you be more effective about it nonetheless. Since you only need to gather 58 points to get 36+24+12, if you know what you're doing each unit can gain an additional 14 points for free once they're rounded. ^.~

Hope this helps!

[Nihilon]

Sweet Jesus Christ on a motorboat, good to see that someone's put in the work to figure this out. Thanks a lot Melaine - this should be stickied!

[eevee_em]

Thank you! This will be so helpful for support grinding :)

[Augestein]

Neato. I agree this should be a sticky.

[tintinfrost]

Thanks for the clarification Melaine. I just realized I made a math error too, thinking that 58-36 = 12 instead of 22, so embarrassing.

Have you found any effective methods to grind supports?

I was initially doing Boo Camp and having a bunch of pairs, but the map takes forever to clear even though you are getting experience and multiple supports.

I've switched to scouting twice on Hoshido Capital: Plaza to get more enemies. Then doing two pairs and auto/skip all. The enemies are weak and die in one hit. The map is also small so it reduces turns spent on movement. I know I'm losing out on a couple points since there can be more than 12 enemies on the map, but it seems the fastest method I've found at this point.

Also, seeds of trust seem to be rare, I stopped at Ch. 23 of Revelations and switched to grinding for supports, and have only run into one seed of trust. Do you happen to know where to find them and what methods you're using to grind supports if any?

[Slyfox]

What I'm wondering is what the heck IntSys were smoking when they designed this system. Why make it so difficult and obtuse?!

[Melaine]

Happy to help! ^^

tintinfrost: Hmm, this may not be a very satisfying answer, but patience, I guess? I'm not in much of a hurry when I play... ^^' But it's the kind of task I'd do while waiting for replies to skype roleplays or to keep me awake but not too distracted while studying. I've mostly found Seeds of Trust at event tiles or from item finds in the castle, so I guess it's really up to luck. Being a slow player helps with that too, since I get quite a lot of chances that way. Thanks for the suggestions, anyhow! c:

[Ertrick36]

That seems to be a rather arbitrary system (why are all the limit estimates multiples of six except for eight?). Though I suppose that if you could grind out unlimited supports on a single Revelation map, you might not grind too much in the scout skirmishes or the DLC unless you want overly buff units or weapons, which I'm sure a good chunk of newcomers wouldn't really care to do that.

Though as someone who's relatively new to FE, I grinded until I could get a +7 forged iron naginata for a level 18 Oboro equipped with Aether and Rend Heaven, and I have absolutely no shame in that.

In any case, thank you for this. Now I have some actual information to consider while grinding for supports. This will change up how I do grinding.

[GoXDS]

does seem needlessly convoluted (though Fates's supposedly new RN system isn't exactly that clear cut either). you made sure to compare against Awakening's system? and pretty sure it breaks away from that?

[Melaine]

GoXDS: Yes, I am positive it is not the same as in Awakening, and I agree it is awfully complex. There were lots of things that confused me, but I can provide data from the tests I did in case anyone wants to double check?

[GoXDS]

I'm curious at least. and maybe there's a more concise conclusion (vs all this arbitrary rounding)

[Nihilon]

GoXDS: Yes, I am positive it is not the same as in Awakening, and I agree it is awfully complex. There were lots of things that confused me, but I can provide data from the tests I did in case anyone wants to double check?

Data is always good. We can take a look at what you did, what numbers you ran, and so on. It'd help to know how you drew your conclusions - that way, we can independently verify whether you drew the correct conclusions.

[Melaine]

Alright~ It'd be great if there is a more effective solution somehow. ^^ Admittedly I tend towards trying to solve math stuff my own way instead of looking for instructions, and I'm a bit out of practise, so I guess it's not impossible.

It's a lot of notes though, and they are in a bit of a mess at the moment, but I'll post them as soon as I've tidied them up a bit.

[Melaine]

These are all for normal C supports. At first I did not keep as careful track as I did later, so I don't have the pairings I used to find out some of them.

Tag Team Single Attack x5

Tag Team Follow-Up Attack x5

Tag Team + Dual Strike x4

Tag Team Follow-Up + Dual Strike x4

Pair Up Single Attack x5

Pair Up Follow-Up Attack x5

Charged Dual Support x15

2vs2 Dual Support x15

Adjacent x8

Staff x8

Sing x8

Private Quarters x3

Edit: Oh right, before I began to replay the same maps I tried to find these out by doing them just once on different maps. The result was that no supports were ever unlocked except for the pairs who used Tag Team + Dual Strike. Eventually I figured the others weren't gaining any points at all.

For these I replayed the same challenge maps several times. None of the units had any support points with anyone aside from their partner.

Corrin x Hayato C Charged Dual Support x14 no

Corrin x Hayato C Charged Dual Support x15 yes

Corrin x Hayato C 2vs2 Dual Support x14 no

Corrin x Hayato C 2vs2 Dual Support x15 yes

Corrin x Hayato C Dual Support x11 + Pair Up x1 no

Corrin x Hayato C Dual Support x12 + Pair Up x1 yes

Corrin x Hayato C Dual Support x8 + Seed of Trust x1 no

Corrin x Hayato C Dual Support x9 + Seed of Trust x1 yes

Corrin x Hayato C Dual Support x3 + Seed of Trust x2 no

Corrin x Hayato C Dual Support x4 + Seed of Trust x2 yes

Corrin x Hayato C Seed of Trust x3 yes

Hinoka x Kaze C Pair Up x3 + Adjacent x2 map 1

+ Pair Up x1 no

+ Dual Support x3 no

+ Dual Support x4 yes

Rinkah x Saizo C Dual Support x4 map 1

+ Dual Support x8 no

+ Dual Support x9 yes

Azama x Sakura C Dual Support x5 map 1

+ Dual Support x8 no

+ Dual Support x9 yes

Hinoka x Jakob C Dual Support x8 map 1

+ Dual Support x8 no

+ Dual Support x9 yes

Silas x Setsuna C Dual Support x9 map 1

+ Dual Support x4 yes

Corrin x Orochi C Private Quarters x1 castle

+ Dual Support x8 no

+ Dual Support x9 yes

Corrin x Subaki C Private Quarters x2 castle

+ Dual Support x3 no

+ Dual Support x4 yes

Corrin x Effie C Private Quarters x3 yes

Mozu x Silas C Conversation x1 castle

+ Dual Support x8 no

+ Dual Support x9 yes

Corrin x Azama C Accessory x1 castle

+ Dual Support x8 no

+ Dual Support x9 yes

Corrin x Setsuna B Pair Up x4 + Dual Support x2 + Seed of Trust x1 no

Corrin x Setsuna B Pair Up x5 + Seed of Trust x1 yes

Corrin x Setsuna B Pair Up x7 + Dual Support x1 + Seed of Trust x3 yes

Corrin x Setsuna B Dual Support x12 map 1

+ Dual Support x8 no

+ Dual Support x9 yes

Azura x Hinoka B Dual Support x13 map 1

+ Dual Support x8 no

+ Dual Support x9 yes

Mozu x Hayato B Dual Support x14 map 1

+ Dual Support x8 no

+ Dual Support x9 yes

Silas x Setsuna B Dual Support x15 map 1

+ Dual Support x4 yes

Subaki x Rinkah B Dual Support x16 map 1

+ Dual Support x4 yes

Azura x Jakob B enough to reach the limit map 1

+ Pair Up x1 no

+ Dual Support x3 no

+ Dual Support x4 yes

Corrin x Effie B Private Quarters x4 yes

Kaze x Orochi A Pair Up x4 + Dual Support x2 + Seed of Trust x1 no

Kaze x Orochi A Pair Up x5 + Seed of Trust x1 yes

Kaze x Orochi S Pair Up x4 + Dual Support x2 + Seed of Trust x2 no

Kaze x Orochi S Pair Up x5 + Seed of Trust x2 yes

Kaze x Rinkah S enough to reach the limit map 1

+ Dual Support x4 no

+ Pair Up x2 no

+ Dual Support x2 + Pair Up x2 no

+ Pair Up x3 yes

Corrin x Kaze S Private Quarters x5 yes

Sakura x Hana C Dual Support x8 no

Sakura x Hana C Dual Support x9 yes

Sakura x Hana C Dual Support x6 + Pair Up x1 yes

Sakura x Hana C Seed of Trust x2 yes

Kaze x Saizo C Pair Up x2 no

Kaze x Saizo C Pair Up x3 yes

Kaze x Saizo C Tag Team + Dual Strike x2 no

Kaze x Saizo C Tag Team + Dual Strike x3 yes

Azama x Setsuna C Staff x4 no

Azama x Setsuna C Staff x5 yes

Hana x Subaki C Dual Support x5 + Pair Up x1 map 1

+ Pair Up x1 no

+ Dual Support x3 no

+ Dual Support x4 yes

Elise x Effie C Conversation x2 yes

Corrin x Jakob B Private Quarters x1 castle

+ Dual Support x8 no

+ Dual Support x9 yes

Hinoka x Setsuna A Pair Up x4 + Dual Support x2 + Seed of Trust x1 no

Hinoka x Setsuna A Pair Up x5 + Seed of Trust x1 yes

Hana x Subaki S Pair Up x4 + Dual Support x2 + Seed of Trust x2 no

Hana x Subaki S Pair Up x5 + Seed of Trust x2 yes

When units supported with more than one partner, supports that should have been unlocked were not. I did not keep track of the actions for these tests, so they assume I got the points right.

Kagero x Jakob 30 points yes

Kagero x Silas 30 points no

Kagero x Hinata 30 points no

Kagero x Silas 30 points yes

Kagero x Azama 30 points no

Kagero x Silas 30 points no

Kagero x Azama 32 points yes

Azama x Kagero 30 points yes

Azama x Setsuna 18 points yes

Hana x Silas 32 points yes

Kagero x Silas 30 points no

Kagero x Azama 30 points no

Kagero x Jakob 30 points yes

Kagero x Orochi 30 points no (map 1) +8 yes (map 2)

Kagero x Hayato 30 points no (map 1) +16 no, +18 yes (map 2)

Edited June 29, 2016 by Melaine

[Roflolxp54]

In terms of calculations for Seeds of Trusts, it seems consistent with what can be observed in game if you have loads of Seeds of Trusts.

Overall, it's easier to gather individual supports in Fates than when compared to Awakening (sibling supports in Awakening are exceptionally slow to build, even with the C support being available by default).

There's also potential for more shipping wars in Fates since there's only 2 different support growth rates whereas in Awakening, there are several different support growth rates with the fastest growth being what the game considers "canon" in terms of marriages (ie. ChromxSumia, VaikexLissa, FrederickxMaribelle, GaiusxTharja, LaurentxLucina, etc.); all other factors like availability aside, these pairings are the fastest to go from no support to S-support.

[PKL]

I noticed something weird myself. Azura and jakob are 12 points away from S in this chapter. If shes paired with jakob and gets hit by an onmyoji and doesnt counter and then gets healed by jakob, they dont get to S. But if she counters the onmyoji with javelin and then gets healed, they do. Is it because just blocking an attack and then not attacking counts as +4 instead of +6?