Gradivus. Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 (edited) Axes don't suck against Wyverns, Pegasi and Lance Cavaliers. WTA and those enemy types having poor avoid means that axe users with good Skl, like those TempestStorm mentioned, will have >80 disp hit, meaning they miss once in 13-50 attacks on average. That's slightly dissimilar to "not hitting like ever". Now axes do suck against Sword-wielding enemies (except Swordreaver, but that's only limitedly available) and Nomads, but otherwise they are somewhere between suboptimal but passable and straight up your best bet depending on the enemies you're facing. Edited September 18, 2016 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAstraWolf Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 He should probably pick lances. Axes would be a bit too heavy due to his con, bows would be a nice one but there is no story reason (besides Wolt I guess) for Roy to use bows, Tomes wouldn't suit him, Cecilia even lampshades it. With lances he would be similar to his father and also have enough Con to wield them without much hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Dalek (MK) Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Axes don't suck against Wyverns, Pegasi and Lance Cavaliers. WTA and those enemy types having poor avoid means that axe users with good Skl, like those TempestStorm mentioned, will have >80 disp hit, meaning they miss once in 13-50 attacks on average. That's slightly dissimilar to "not hitting like ever". Now axes do suck against Sword-wielding enemies (except Swordreaver, but that's only limitedly available) and Nomads, but otherwise they are somewhere between suboptimal but passable and straight up your best bet depending on the enemies you're facing. He should probably pick lances. Axes would be a bit too heavy due to his con, bows would be a nice one but there is no story reason (besides Wolt I guess) for Roy to use bows, Tomes wouldn't suit him, Cecilia even lampshades it. With lances he would be similar to his father and also have enough Con to wield them without much hassle. Axes having 50-60 Hit Rate with WTA is unacceptable (this is enemies in the ARENA) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) Axes having 50-60 Hit Rate with WTA is unacceptable (this is enemies in the ARENA) If your main argument revolves around the arena now, I take it you've conceded the point about the main game. Edited September 25, 2016 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSJDennis Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Roy would get Bows. This would show that Lynn is his mother XD Probably not, but still, with bows he would do effective damage against flyers. Even with E-rank weapons it would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ping Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 I just wanted to throw out that both the iron axe and the hand axe have only 5 less hit than their lance counterparts. Killer and Silver is a bit worse (10 points difference) and specialized axes (Brave, Halberd, Hammer) really are way less accurate than the respective lances/swords, but in most cases the lower accuracy of axes compared to lances can be offset by the weapon triangle. Axes having 50-60 Hit Rate with WTA is unacceptable (this is enemies in the ARENA) So since we're talking iron tier hier, a lance user (with identical stats) would have 45-55 hit (+5 because of the iron lance's stats, -10 because no WTA) and deal 2 points less damage (1 because the lance is weaker, 1 because no WTA). A sword user would have the same hitrate (+20 because weapon stats, -20 because WTD instead of WTA) and deal 5 points less damage (-3 points because weaon stats, -2 points because weapon triangle). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Dalek (MK) Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 If your main argument revolves around the arena now, I take it you've conceded the point about the main game. Axes are worse in the main game, Arena enemies are scaled to better match the unit you send in there Roy would get Bows. This would show that Lynn is his mother XD Probably not, but still, with bows he would do effective damage against flyers. Even with E-rank weapons it would be nice. Lyn can be Roy's mother, but Eliwood can marry others too (most go with Ninian) so if that's the case, Roy would get either Dragonstones or the dance ability from Ninian I just wanted to throw out that both the iron axe and the hand axe have only 5 less hit than their lance counterparts. Killer and Silver is a bit worse (10 points difference) and specialized axes (Brave, Halberd, Hammer) really are way less accurate than the respective lances/swords, but in most cases the lower accuracy of axes compared to lances can be offset by the weapon triangle. So since we're talking iron tier hier, a lance user (with identical stats) would have 45-55 hit (+5 because of the iron lance's stats, -10 because no WTA) and deal 2 points less damage (1 because the lance is weaker, 1 because no WTA). A sword user would have the same hitrate (+20 because weapon stats, -20 because WTD instead of WTA) and deal 5 points less damage (-3 points because weaon stats, -2 points because weapon triangle). Assuming identical skill and luck stats, which axe users don't have, axe users, on top of the axe hit rate problem, typically have low skill and luck, therefore making it extremely difficult to hit with an axe and because FE6 is FE6, it's even harder for you to hit with an axe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) Axes are worse in the main game, Arena enemies are scaled to better match the unit you send in there This isn't true. Arenas give +Avo and sport Iron weapon enemies that are at the same level as your units, whereas there are many unpromoted mooks with steel lances in the main game, and some Wyvern Lords that also have non-stellar evasion, so main game enemies are less evasive unless you abuse supports in the arena (which you can also do in the main game with minor complications). Assuming identical skill and luck stats, which axe users don't have, axe users, on top of the axe hit rate problem, typically have low skill and luck, therefore making it extremely difficult to hit with an axe and because FE6 is FE6, it's even harder for you to hit with an axe Bolded: doesn't make sense It baffles me more that you still haven't acknowledged FE6's RNG yet, though. As listed before, there are plenty axe users with decent to good skill/luck stats. More or less all Paladins (but mainly Marcus and Percival) and all Heroes, for example. Edited September 25, 2016 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ping Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Assuming identical skill and luck stats, which axe users don't have, axe users, on top of the axe hit rate problem, typically have low skill and luck, therefore making it extremely difficult to hit with an axe and because FE6 is FE6, it's even harder for you to hit with an axe Counterpoint: Marcus in the earlygame, as well as Alance and Deke after their promotions. Also, are we talking about axes or axe users here? Because yeah, most units with axes as their primary (or only) weapon aren't too hot in this game. But axes themselves are not worse in every situation like you're making them out to be. I gave you the numbers - in case of WTA, most axes are strictly a better choice than swords or lances (of the same tier). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosabers Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) Not point honestly. Swords are the best weapon type and he has literally one of the best weapons in all of Fire Emblem. Best thing would be staff utility since it's the only role swords can't fill but no str/mag split. Edited September 25, 2016 by Zerosabers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 Talking about Axe users is kind of pointless, at least in this topic since we're (meant to be) talking specifically about Roy. Who, by the by, has pretty good skill and great luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wissenschaft Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) Rather than give Roy a second weapon, I'd rather change his bases and growths to Erika's so he could be more reliably useful in battle. He should have promoted after Ch 16 (where you liberate the capital of Etruria). Edited September 26, 2016 by wissenschaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Dalek (MK) Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 This isn't true. Arenas give +Avo and sport Iron weapon enemies that are at the same level as your units, whereas there are many unpromoted mooks with steel lances in the main game, and some Wyvern Lords that also have non-stellar evasion, so main game enemies are less evasive unless you abuse supports in the arena (which you can also do in the main game with minor complications). Bolded: doesn't make sense It baffles me more that you still haven't acknowledged FE6's RNG yet, though. As listed before, there are plenty axe users with decent to good skill/luck stats. More or less all Paladins (but mainly Marcus and Percival) and all Heroes, for example. Oh ya, FE6's RNG makes it even harder for Axes to hit The enemy will often have 20-30 hit with WTA with an Axe, making it a bit tricky to hit. And since the RNG screws the player over every chance it gets, 60-70 Hit Rate at most WILL NOT cut it Counterpoint: Marcus in the earlygame, as well as Alance and Deke after their promotions. Also, are we talking about axes or axe users here? Because yeah, most units with axes as their primary (or only) weapon aren't too hot in this game. But axes themselves are not worse in every situation like you're making them out to be. I gave you the numbers - in case of WTA, most axes are strictly a better choice than swords or lances (of the same tier). Marcus sucks, I don't see a point to give Lance an Axe because Lances are better, especially in FE6 and with Dieck, I might give him a Hand Axe and Iron Axe, a Hand Axe for a Range Attack and an Iron Axe just because Talking about Axe users is kind of pointless, at least in this topic since we're (meant to be) talking specifically about Roy. Who, by the by, has pretty good skill and great luck. Well, we're talking about how crappy Axes are in FE6 Rather than give Roy a second weapon, I'd rather change his bases and growths to Erika's so he could be more reliably useful in battle. He should have promoted after Ch 16 (where you liberate the capital of Etruria). At least going into Chapter 17 (So end of 16 or 16x) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) Oh ya, FE6's RNG makes it even harder for Axes to hit the RNG screws the player over every chance it gets Marcus sucks These are largely incorrect, and given how often you repeat arguments that have been disproven multiple times already, explaining this to you is frankly not worth any more of my time. Well, we're talking about how crappy Axes are in FE6 The point of the topic is what weapon people would prefer as a secondary on Roy though, so that just means this discussion shouldn't be continued here. Anyway, since idt I gave my take on the topic, my favorite idea is probably using bows to snipe Bern's wyverns. Having a Bow/Sword lord in a game where it's actually useful would be cool. Edited September 28, 2016 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ping Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 I've taken the liberty to create a new topic about axes. Sorry about the derail, Jotari. Anyway, since idt I gave my take on the topic, my favorite idea is probably using bows to snipe Bern's wyverns. Having a Bow/Sword lord in a game where it's actually useful would be cool. So I guess you're an Eliwood/Lyn shipper? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 I don't ship any of the FE7 lords, I just like the idea someone posted before about bows having a strategic advantage over the wyverns, it kinda fits the best with Roy's character. I don't care about Lyn because the combo is really mediocre in FE7, but I would've liked it on Roy because FE6 is a game where bows are pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Dalek (MK) Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 I don't ship any of the FE7 lords, I just like the idea someone posted before about bows having a strategic advantage over the wyverns, it kinda fits the best with Roy's character. I don't care about Lyn because the combo is really mediocre in FE7, but I would've liked it on Roy because FE6 is a game where bows are pretty good. Bows, definitely more accurate than Axes, if they could attack at 1 range they would be better than Axes (with any bow, even a Short Bow) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) That's sort of common knowledge. Bows already have effectiveness vs wyverns/pegasi and decent stats all around, there's no doubt they'd trump every other weapon type (and match anima) if they had 1-2 range. Edited October 4, 2016 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Dalek (MK) Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 That's sort of common knowledge. Bows already have effectiveness vs wyverns/pegasi and decent stats all around, there's no doubt they'd trump every other weapon type (and match anima) if they had 1-2 range. Bows would be amazing if even one of them could attack at one range (just look at Fates and Takumi) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Bows would be amazing if even one of them could attack at one range (just look at Fates and Takumi) You do realize that 1-2 range on bows doesn't have much of anything to do with why Takumi is considered good, don't you? Because only 3 bows in Fates can attack at 1 range (1 of those can only be used at 1 range, and it's rather weak, another doesn't allow follow-ups and is even weaker, and the third of those is a magic weapon; technically, there are 4, but the last one is enemy only). Edited October 5, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 You do realize that 1-2 range on bows doesn't have much of anything to do with why Takumi is considered good, don't you? Because only 3 bows in Fates can attack at 1 range (1 of those can only be used at 1 range, and it's rather weak, another doesn't allow follow-ups and is even weaker, and the third of those is a magic weapon; technically, there are 4, but the last one is enemy only).Maybe he means Point Blank? Though that comes into play pretty late iirc. Back on topic, if I were to rank: 1. Staves, with base Rank C. 2. Lances, because Eliwood 3. Bows 4. Anything else I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) Maybe he means Point Blank? Though that comes into play pretty late iirc. Back on topic, if I were to rank: 1. Staves, with base Rank C. 2. Lances, because Eliwood 3. Bows 4. Anything else I guess. Point Blank is DLC. You should go through seven levels worth of DLC that's intended to be played after Revelations but still, if you choose you can have it at pretty much the start of the game. Not that it's needed to make Takumi any good. I certainly used him quite a bit without ever using the skill. Edited October 7, 2016 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonMendez Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 He can finally used those axe skills he learned from his father in law, Hector. Lances are probably the best choice tbh. I would prefer him to use axes however for the reason stated above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) Maybe he means Point Blank? Though that comes into play pretty late iirc. As stated earlier, Point Blank is DLC... Which requires playing a map series best played after Revelations... And even then, you must have everyone survive to get it. Also, I don't think Point Blank is that amazing. Edited October 7, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Dalek (MK) Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 You do realize that 1-2 range on bows doesn't have much of anything to do with why Takumi is considered good, don't you? Because only 3 bows in Fates can attack at 1 range (1 of those can only be used at 1 range, and it's rather weak, another doesn't allow follow-ups and is even weaker, and the third of those is a magic weapon; technically, there are 4, but the last one is enemy only). You do realize that I was saying how good Takumi was and how much better he would be if he could attack at 1 range, right? Maybe he means Point Blank? Though that comes into play pretty late iirc. Back on topic, if I were to rank: 1. Staves, with base Rank C. 2. Lances, because Eliwood 3. Bows 4. Anything else I guess. I would say staves, but since the GBA FEs don't do classes that can wield both Magic and Physical weapons, ya Bows have the only 2 range curse, so Lances it is Point Blank is DLC. You should go through seven levels worth of DLC that's intended to be played after Revelations but still, if you choose you can have it at pretty much the start of the game. Not that it's needed to make Takumi any good. I certainly used him quite a bit without ever using the skill. Ya, Takumi is good, I'm just commenting that he'd be AMAZING if bows could attack at 1-2 range instead of just 2 (2-3 with Longbow) He can finally used those axe skills he learned from his father in law, Hector. Lances are probably the best choice tbh. I would prefer him to use axes however for the reason stated above. Lances are better because Hit Rate (I love Lances in FE almost as much as I love Magic in FE) if he used Axes, he would only ever use Swords because his Con sux and Axes hit rate (and weight) doesn't help As stated earlier, Point Blank is DLC... Which requires playing a map series best played after Revelations... And even then, you must have everyone survive to get it. Also, I don't think Point Blank is that amazing.No, that's not what I was referring to^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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