Corrin Needs an Adult (Spoilers)

[Rezzy]

In pretty much every Fire Emblem game, the young hero has some sort of older advisor type character to help lead them on their way. It often is, but not always the Jeigan, or in one game it was Jeigan, when Jeigan wasn't the Jeigan. It helps make the story more believable. Having the mentor archetype is a trope, but it's very grounded in reality. Having a young leader with minimal real combat experience just be a god of battle and strategy immediately would test believability. It also makes sense to have a character who knows a thing or two about the world and can be the voice of caution and/or reason. Ike had Titania, Roy/Eliwood had Marcus/Merlinus, Hector had Oswin to an extent, Marth had Malledus and Jeigan, and Chrom had Frederick. Corrin doesn't really have anybody. The only route he sort of does is in Revelations, where it would make the most sense to not have someone like that.

I think this hurts the most in Birthright, which is supposed to be the traditional type of FE story. They could have easily has Yukimura or Orochi fill that role, but instead, they fall into the background as tertiary characters. It's sad that the driving force for the first half of Birthright is playing Where's Waldo with Ryoma. It feels more like a Saturday Morning Cartoon than a pseudo historical wartime narrative. Jakob (and maybe Felicia) could almost have filled the role a la Frederick, but they are too much cheerleaders for Corrin to be that rock that the hero usually leans on. We don't really have anyone to help Corrin grow, and with so much promise, Corrin is pretty much the same naive kid at the end of the story as the beginning, having never had their beliefs challenged and brought out of the dreamworld.

There's no real world building. There's no negotiating with neutral nations. Nothing to make a compelling story like past FEs, and this one wasn't even trying to be different, like the other paths.

[NekoKnight]

The title made me think there would be something more risque. I'm only slightly disappointed.

I'm not sure what sort of conversation you were hoping to get out of this, but on the subject of Jeigans/senior advisers, even for the games where the hero has one of these, they aren't always important throughout the entire game. Eliwood, for example, has Marcus but Eliwood grows as a character even without his mentor holding his hand. I'd say that not having a solid mentor figure hurt Kamui a bit, but he did have a number of loyal supporters, even early on.

[DarkDestr0yer61]

I would have loved it if Reina filled that role in Birthright. She is Mikoto's old retainer and is experienced in battle.

Also, the idea of a Kinshi Knight Jagen sounds awesome to me

Edited August 5, 2016 by DarkDestr0yer61

[Magical Glace]

Tbh Roy spent more time being a reasonable authority than Merlinus in 6. Merlinus was kinda... arbitrary skeptic: the character, while Roy didn't jump to conclusions and generally was pretty competent on his own, possibly from all the studying he did pre-story.

[Rezzy]

The title made me think there would be something more risque. I'm only slightly disappointed.

I'm not sure what sort of conversation you were hoping to get out of this, but on the subject of Jeigans/senior advisers, even for the games where the hero has one of these, they aren't always important throughout the entire game. Eliwood, for example, has Marcus but Eliwood grows as a character even without his mentor holding his hand. I'd say that not having a solid mentor figure hurt Kamui a bit, but he did have a number of loyal supporters, even early on.

I should have clarified that I agree with you in that it's the early chapters where it makes the most difference. Once the hero has gotten some battles under his belt, he can "move on" from his advisor so to speak, and in fiction, that's often what happens, more often than not with the death of the mentor, but I'd shy away from playable character deaths in FE. (I'm looking at you, Scarlet!)

I would have loved it if Reina filled that role in Birthright. She is Mikoto's old retainer and is experienced in battle.

Also, the idea of a Kinshi Knight Jagen sounds awesome to me

Reina is another one who could have filled the role, my dislike for her, aside.

Tbh Roy spent more time being a reasonable authority than Merlinus in 6. Merlinus was kinda... arbitrary skeptic: the character, while Roy didn't jump to conclusions and generally was pretty competent on his own, possibly from all the studying he did pre-story.

Roy was a bit of a wunderkind, but he still at least had Merlinus to be the cautionary voice and bounce ideas off of. Corrin didn't even get that.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Rezzy

[The Geek]

I think a good candidate for an adviser type character in Birthright actually would have been Hinoka. As Corrin's older sister she's both concerned for their well being and much more competent and experienced in battle, though she doesn't fit the archetype in terms of gameplay as Hinoka is actually a pretty great unit.

Also, it'd give her actual relevance in the story

[Rezzy]

I think a good candidate for an adviser type character in Birthright actually would have been Hinoka. As Corrin's older sister she's both concerned for their well being and much more competent and experienced in battle, though she doesn't fit the archetype in terms of gameplay as Hinoka is actually a pretty great unit.

Also, it'd give her actual relevance in the story

That would have been great. Hinoka as is, was just sort of there. Even Camilla seemed to fit the mentor archtype than Hinoka did.

[NekoKnight]

I think a good candidate for an adviser type character in Birthright actually would have been Hinoka. As Corrin's older sister she's both concerned for their well being and much more competent and experienced in battle, though she doesn't fit the archetype in terms of gameplay as Hinoka is actually a pretty great unit.

Also, it'd give her actual relevance in the story

I wish they did this. One thing I felt was really missing from Birthright was Kamui transitioning back into his homeland's culture. The kid spent his whole life in Nohr and now he's on effectively foreign soil and surrounded by people with different values than his own. Hinoka could have been the one to get Kamui back up to speed on what life is like in Hoshido. Hinoka would be both Kamui's senior military adviser but also a guiding voice as his older sister.

[Rezzy]

It's sad that Hinoka didn't even occur to me to be the one to fill that role until you mentioned it. She's that forgettable in the story.

The only thing I remember much about her is the joke about having a letter from Mikoto saying it's okay to make Gen2 units with Corrin since they aren't really related.

[Raguna]

It's sad that Hinoka didn't even occur to me to be the one to fill that role until you mentioned it. She's that forgettable in the story.

The only thing I remember much about her is the joke about having a letter from Mikoto saying it's okay to make Gen2 units with Corrin since they aren't really related.

The weird thing about that letter being informed with Hinoka is that the support line already treats the player that Hinoka isn't your blood sister since Mikoto is your mom but not hers in a way but I digress.

Honestly, I just think Corrin should have read some books considering he was trapped in a tower for a good long time with around five people he grew close to him who could have told him anything from the outside world. Like Corrin must have been one hell of a boring kid if all he did was idle around until Xander decided to spar with him every other Saturday. That is not to say he couldn't still be naive from the beginning.

For example: I read a manga once centered around a fictional land heavily inspired by Arabian, Turk and European influences called Shoukoku no Altair and the main character Mahmut was pretty reclusive and read a ton of books. When he was called upon to do his work, he tried to follow what the books generally did yet failed due to the books only covering facets of events he studied that could be legally written without being censured for being underhanded or calling the morality of his nation into question. After some tragedy happens, he becomes much more savvy and begins to protect his kingdom from the enemy much more effectively while seeking advice at every turn.

Also while not physically present he does have an older figure that inspires him albeit begrudgingly.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Raguna

[saisymbolic]

I mean, what exactly did Cornbread do while he was locked in his tower like Rapunzel? You'd think he'd be more knowledgeable on the world given reading is one of the few things that would conceivably be done when in total isolation? Few people visiting. Playing piano. Playing ball with Gunter. What else is there? That brings up more questions. Did Cornbread get an education? If so, what kind of education was it? Was it one filled with Nohr propaganda? Was it one that was heavily censored? Gunter and Xander were apparently Cornbread's military instructors. Did they not give Cornbread tactical and strategic training? Or was all of that given to only Leo? Did they only teach him how to wield a sword? Why the kcuf didn't Gunter teach him how to use a lance so I could have a lance-wielding lord?

I don't get it, guys. I probably pulled all those question out my ssa.

Edited August 5, 2016 by SaiSymbolic

[Moblin Major General]

If Fates was good, Fuga would be the guiding force in all 3 routes. Not too old, but not young, with decent bases and growths, almost like a go-between of a Jagen and an Oifey. Fuga is wise in many things and has a deft touch with words. In all 3 routes, he allies with Corrin, and is even playable in one of them. Conquest Fuga would take over the main role Azura plays, and as Sumeragi's friend, tells Corrin how to kiss Garon's ass without his special snowflake complex.

[Rezzy]

Fuga and Izana were criminally underutilized in Fates. As the leaders of neutral nations, they should have played a larger role in the overall plot. Not be a one chapter and done side character, only to join you after they're no longer relevant to the story for no apparent reason.

[Res]

Plus like you said, they're leaders of their nations. Kaden's another. What kind of leader abandons the day-to-day running of their nation to follow around a teenager?

Birthright does especially bother me due to how much the characters all defer to Corrin. Conquest is actually better in this regard. In Birthright, Corrin's responsible for trying to find Ryoma and Takumi, and once Ryoma joins them he jumps in line with everyone else; doesn't act as the crown prince at all.

[Rezzy]

Plus like you said, they're leaders of their nations. Kaden's another. What kind of leader abandons the day-to-day running of their nation to follow around a teenager?

Birthright does especially bother me due to how much the characters all defer to Corrin. Conquest is actually better in this regard. In Birthright, Corrin's responsible for trying to find Ryoma and Takumi, and once Ryoma joins them he jumps in line with everyone else; doesn't act as the crown prince at all.

I had forgotten about Kaden and Keaton, too I suppose. For Izana and Fuga to join, they should have brought armies with them, if they wanted to join Corrin, not sneak out of their throne rooms in the middle of the night to jump into a Hot Tub. Their joinging when and how they did makes no sense to the plot. No one even mentions it after it happens. You'd think they'd be in on the war meetings and whatnot.

[Dark Holy Elf]

The characters who join via baths, etc. (Izana, Fuga, Flora, Yukimura) to me feel very obviously like they were designed as PCs but whatever arc they were supposed to have which would cause them to join naturally was abandoned.

I do agree that Corrin would have benefitted from mentor-type figure(s) to bounce off (and yeah I really like the idea of Hinoka in that role in Birthright in particular) but I will note that not every FE has handled this role very well. (Merlinus was particularly awful, being more of a plot device to come up with bad ideas so that the perfect 15-year old protagonist could say something better.)

[DarkDestr0yer61]

This is sligtly off topic... but I have a question for you Rezzy.

From what I gather, you don't seem to like Birthright that much (correct me if I am wrong), but do you think it is the worst story in Fates? Because I don't think so, I think Birthright is where Corrin is the most tolerable. For me, it's Revelation that takes that cake. Mainly because it ends up being super cheesy (Corrin has faith that everyone is good!) And people pretty much worship Corrin.... and it's sad, because I thought it was going to be interesting.

Birthright and Conquest share some of the same problems. The first 20 chapters feel like filler. Pretty much up until you get to Nohr and Hoshido respectively. Something of interest happens in 15 of Conquest, but then it goes back downhill till you get to Hoshido. I feel like none of the stories in Fates are good, and I feel like Fates in general is plagued by bad writing. But I personally believe Elise's arc in Birthright is some of the best writing the game has to offer.

Now if we want to talk about which side had the least interesting/ most boring story, then I would say Birthright.

Edit: To make this somewhat relevant. I would have liked it if Gunter was a mentor because I feel like he is one of this games biggest wasted potentials (I like him a lot, actually. But as a unit, he is probably the worst Jagen to ever Jagen. He almost gets one-rounded in very early game of Revelation.... he is better in Conquest). But I am not sure if having a mentor would have saved this game's plot due to the filler nature of this game.

Edited August 8, 2016 by DarkDestr0yer61