What went wrong with Fates overall story?(Spoilers!)

[Harvey]

Apart from what others have mentioned, I need to ask you what your point is. "Another game did it 15 years ago, so that means Fates doing it is okay", is that your logic?

In Birthright she disappears in front of the players' eyes. It's true that we don't see her die in Conquest, but we do know that she's probably not there anymore judging by the scene at the lake.

Do you think Intelligent Systems made Revelation to serve fans? Do you think a company made a separate third path that answers everything worth knowing about the plot while keeping the important parts out of Birthright and Conquest and then selling it at the same price to be nice?

My logic over oracles is the recent excuse that is given to the game is that the connection here is minimal unlike here which is big for some reason. Both have different stories and both whether how minimal the connection is are required to get the final ending whether you like it or not. Infact, both those games prompt you to get the other game as means of getting to the best ending in the first place.

In Birthright, she appears again even after death in front of the player's eyes as well. So really, she didn't die as you think she did. Yeah, she disappears but as far as death goes, then no.

Intelligent Systems originally intended to make three games. One for casual gamers, one for the fans and the ones who like Fates and want to know more about the world of fates. Gameplay wise, the three paths are well executed seeing how the sales of the game topped Awakening.

What the paths failed to do is again, trying to motivate the player to get the other paths in terms of the STORY. If the first path of the story didn't made you interested in the other paths, what exactly will make you get the other paths besides the gameplay?

I'm right now playing Tales of Monkey island chapter 5 and I say, this one here feels more of a cash grab than Fates seeing how each chapter has the same difficulty level, repetitive puzzle structure and short campaigns unlike its predecessors. And not to mention how the overall five chapters force you to play the chapters in order. Does Fates really force you to play them in order? Do you really NEED to play either path to understand what Revelations is all about?

If Fates were to do something like this, then I can 100% agree with you that it is a cash grab. But it didn't and it doesn't really do anything to push you to the other paths seeing as how you have phenoix mode and also not to mention that the decision is solely on you.

Oh and for the record, Conquering Hoshido wasn't exactly like how its intended because all the player wanted was to make Garon sit on the throne so technically, they could've done the writing better to fix that but I digress.

[Thane]

My logic over oracles is the recent excuse that is given to the game is that the connection here is minimal unlike here which is big for some reason. Both have different stories and both whether how minimal the connection is are required to get the final ending whether you like it or not. Infact, both those games prompt you to get the other game as means of getting to the best ending in the first place.

Okay. So? How does this affect Fates?

If memory serves, the two versions of the Oracles game didn't keep it secret the end goal of the games were: to stop Ganon. Fates tries to be a plot-heavy game yet conceals information in other paths to make people want to buy Revelation.

In Birthright, she appears again even after death in front of the player's eyes as well. So really, she didn't die as you think she did. Yeah, she disappears but as far as death goes, then no.

Are you serious right now? If you're a troll, I must say you're a damn good one.

Intelligent Systems originally intended to make three games. One for casual gamers, one for the fans and the ones who like Fates and want to know more about the world of fates. Gameplay wise, the three paths are well executed seeing how the sales of the game topped Awakening.

There are so many problems with this statement that I don't know where to begin, so I'll start with what I'm simply unsure of: where are your sources for these claims about what they wanted to make? As far as I know, they were exhausted after Awakening and didn't have many ideas, which contributed to their decision of involving Kibayashi. I'm also unsure what you mean by "fans" and "the ones who want to know more about the world of Fates"; why do you say that Revelation is just made for fans? You've yet to answer my question if you think Intelligent Systems made Revelation to be nice.

Then I have to mention that I think the very mindset of the folks at Intelligent Systems to be faulty to begin with when they set about to make this game: I don't understand why they need to draw a line between old fans and new fans, and I certainly don't understand why they feel the best idea is to make two different games.

Then I need to point out that the sales numbers are not a validation of the gameplay; plenty of horrible games have sold well. I believe Sonic 06 is considered one of the more broken games out there that's actually been made by veteran professionals, yet it sold a lot of copies.

And finally, I need to ask what this has to do with anything.

What the paths failed to do is again, trying to motivate the player to get the other paths in terms of the STORY. If the first path of the story didn't made you interested in the other paths, what exactly will make you get the other paths besides the gameplay?

What?

I'm right now playing Tales of Monkey island chapter 5 and I say, this one here feels more of a cash grab than Fates seeing how each chapter has the same difficulty level, repetitive puzzle structure and short campaigns unlike its predecessors. And not to mention how the overall five chapters force you to play the chapters in order. Does Fates really force you to play them in order? Do you really NEED to play either path to understand what Revelations is all about?

I've got no idea what you're trying to argue here. I thought you said the split paths didn't negatively affect the story of Fates, but now you're saying Revelation can be played on its own, and Revelation is the golden path that makes Birthright and Conquest obsolete in terms of story.

If Fates were to do something like this, then I can 100% agree with you that it is a cash grab. But it didn't and it doesn't really do anything to push you to the other paths seeing as how you have phenoix mode and also not to mention that the decision is solely on you.

What?

Oh and for the record, Conquering Hoshido wasn't exactly like how its intended because all the player wanted was to make Garon sit on the throne so technically, they could've done the writing better to fix that but I digress.

Two things:

1) Could you show me proof of this? I would love to read it.

2) I'm judging the finished product that we have all paid for, not what could've been.

[Harvey]

Okay. So? How does this affect Fates?

If memory serves, the two versions of the Oracles game didn't keep it secret the end goal of the games were: to stop Ganon. Fates tries to be a plot-heavy game yet conceals information in other paths to make people want to buy Revelation.

Except the games don't do enough to make you get the other paths.

Are you serious right now? If you're a troll, I must say you're a damn good one.

Too bad there are others like me who feel the same that the story while being split doesn't do enough to make you get the other paths. Unless I don't know about that slang word, a troll is suppose to hurt others and make harsh arguments but not valid arguments. What I argued is valid and so I can't be a troll now can I?

Also, didn't I just say earlier to avoid the three path argument thing since the stories in each path itself have their own problems into motivating players to get the other paths in story terms?

There are so many problems with this statement that I don't know where to begin, so I'll start with what I'm simply unsure of: where are your sources for these claims about what they wanted to make? As far as I know, they were exhausted after Awakening and didn't have many ideas, which contributed to their decision of involving Kibayashi. I'm also unsure what you mean by "fans" and "the ones who want to know more about the world of Fates"; why do you say that Revelation is just made for fans? You've yet to answer my question if you think Intelligent Systems made Revelation to be nice.

Then I have to mention that I think the very mindset of the folks at Intelligent Systems to be faulty to begin with when they set about to make this game: I don't understand why they need to draw a line between old fans and new fans, and I certainly don't understand why they feel the best idea is to make two different games.

Then I need to point out that the sales numbers are not a validation of the gameplay; plenty of horrible games have sold well. I believe Sonic 06 is considered one of the more broken games out there that's actually been made by veteran professionals, yet it sold a lot of copies.

And finally, I need to ask what this has to do with anything.

Higuchi also speaks to the need to continue cultivating a broad audience, "Maeda-san mentioned earlier about this game being a tough RPG - sort of like a simulation type of game - with a turn based system; and while some people really enjoy the interaction with the various characters that you play with during the game, there are some other players enjoy more of the storyline. We feel like it's very important for us to continue suggesting all these different ideas that would make the game more accessible to various people, and, to be honest, there's not a single answer to this. But, I feel like the key to continue making the Fire Emblem series successful is to continue challenging ourselves and implementing all these good ideas that come up during the development process."

Probably to make stories so that it can appeal to everyone which they tried to do it here but it didn't work out so much.

I've got no idea what you're trying to argue here. I thought you said the split paths didn't negatively affect the story of Fates, but now you're saying Revelation can be played on its own, and Revelation is the golden path that makes Birthright and Conquest obsolete in terms of story.

There's a difference between making an episode type of game and making a decision type of game. Episodic games are released separately as their own games but force the players to get more episodes inorder to conclude the ending or a season in this case. Problem is, these games unlike Fates don't last long per episode as they can easily be beaten withing a few hours.

Fates makes you choose a decision and you are stuck with the decision that you made, simple as that. Again, the problem isn't the split path thing, its more of the weak writing that all paths have regardless of which path you picked. So yes, some one who has played Conquest can really start of Revelation because Birthright isn't all that great since the path doesn't do enough to make you want to know more about Hoshido.

Two things:

1) Could you show me proof of this? I would love to read it.

2) I'm judging the finished product that we have all paid for, not what could've been.

Shortly afterwards, Azura reveals to the Avatar through a one-time-use crystal ball that Garon had died long ago, and that a slime-like creature had taken Garon's place and sparked the war between Nohr and Hoshido. Azura also reveals that only way for the Avatar to prove this truth to Nohr is for "Garon" to sit on the magical throne of Hoshido's Castle Shirasagi, which will revert him to his true form. This means Garon and his army will have to conquer Hoshido in order to trick him into sitting on the throne.

That part could have been more detailed but again, I digress.

Judge them the way you want. But calling it a split three game and blaming the division for the ruined story is rather a poor sense of judgement.

I'm not gonna argue more about this three split path story anymore. argue about it all you want. I said what I wanted to say.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Harvey