Something from Lyn Mode I wish was more prevalent.

[Jedi]

Nah its not about the tutorial segments in general, but just how every character that joined Lyn in her small personal quest, had a piece to say every chapter or so, Kent & Sain most so, and I feel its part of why they remain my favorite cavalier duo in the franchise.

There was this sense of comradery, that Lyn's group had, from Wil finding the camp, and Kent making suggestions, Sain trying to hit on every girl but everyone joining in on the joking at his expense. Erk & Serra's squabbles, although admittedly Rath and Wallace didn't have much, but they didn't have much of a chance to be.

I guess its just something I always felt FE lacked since then, 7 was my introduction and I thought the entire game would be full of everyone just joining in randomly in the conversations, I guess with the Tactican on certain maps having say, Sain talk to you right before the start of Dragons Gate (if he was one of your units that map) was cool, but I noticed in pretty much every other FE this is not the case.

The casts being so large is mostly why I think they don't do that, and its unfortunate, because it added a-lot of likability to characters (Ike talking to everyone over the course of FE9 is the closest thing I can think to Lyn mode everyone pitching in). I can see why people would want a smaller cast, not only for balance purposes (potential loss of replay value) but also little things like this, so I was curious if anyone else felt the same about this.

Edit: How did I forget that FE12 also kinda did this lol

Edited October 20, 2016 by Jedi

[MCProductions]

This is one of the many reasons I love Tearring Saga, tho that game nearly goes WAY too far with the fucking dialouge. It feels more like MGS at points.

But yeah, I loved that about Lyn Mode, and I willingly went thru it several times because of that.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

This is a big reason why I like Lyn Mode. I like the story in general, but I really like how pretty much every character had things to say and had some development because of it. It was really cool, and something I wish more games in the series had.

[Augestein]

I do like that aspect of Lyn mode. It's probably the best thing about it. Although, the short tales are pretty nice and the fact that it's not "SAVE THE WORLD" as well.

[Jedi]

I do like that aspect of Lyn mode. It's probably the best thing about it. Although, the short tales are pretty nice and the fact that it's not "SAVE THE WORLD" as well.

Yeah, its very contained. I think FE might be well suited to trying something like this in the future for a full game, although I highly doubt they will.

[PersonWithTime]

Yeah, Lyn's story was the first ever Fire Emblem game I played so I have very fond memories of it. And yes, I absolutely agree that because the group was so small and everyone had something it say it really made the group feel closer and more alive.

I still won't ever forget the ending of Lyn's story when you're having your goodbyes and that wonderful drawing of her.

I don't know about anyone else but to me that was gaming magic right there.

I'll always love Lyn, her story and her little team of pals she got. Lyn taught me how to play Fire Emblem after all.

[FrostyFireMage]

I doubt the series will ever have that again when permadeath is still a thing

[Jedi]

I doubt the series will ever have that again when permadeath is still a thing

FE9 had some dialog stuff change depending on who was alive or dead during certain conversations, so the care is there, or I should fix that. Was there.

[MCProductions]

FE9 had some dialog stuff change depending on who was alive or dead during certain conversations, so the care is there, or I should fix that. Was there.

You know, while I'l often defend the new FEs on a lot of things, this is where they seriously dropped the ball. I get the series has evolved and in some sense departed from the original ironman vision but FE7 Lyn mode and various things I've seen from Thracia make me respect the attention to detail the older games had. I get it, when the majority of your player base is going to get the "everyone alive" variant anyway thanks to Casual and Phoenix mode, there's no reason beyond spending extra time in a already rushed development cycle to program the alts. I just wish they had the time/heart to program them anyway as they make the games feel truly fleshed out.

[Augestein]

You know, while I'l often defend the new FEs on a lot of things, this is where they seriously dropped the ball. I get the series has evolved and in some sense departed from the original ironman vision but FE7 Lyn mode and various things I've seen from Thracia make me respect the attention to detail the older games had. I get it, when the majority of your player base is going to get the "everyone alive" variant anyway thanks to Casual and Phoenix mode, there's no reason beyond spending extra time in a already rushed development cycle to program the alts. I just wish they had the time/heart to program them anyway as they make the games feel truly fleshed out.

Agreed. I'm not a huge fan of permanent death in general, but at least if you're going to do it, I'd rather the game have alternate scripts and the like.

[shadowofchaos]

FE9 had some dialog stuff change depending on who was alive or dead during certain conversations, so the care is there, or I should fix that. Was there.

Makalov comes to mind.

[Jedi]

Makalov comes to mind.

I think theres another, but I forget.

[NekoKnight]

This is why I don't understand so many peoples' distaste for Lyn mode. 'Forced tutorial' or not, it's one of the most charming segments of a Fire Emblem game. Lyn's Legions actually felt like a family.

You know, while I'l often defend the new FEs on a lot of things, this is where they seriously dropped the ball. I get the series has evolved and in some sense departed from the original ironman vision but FE7 Lyn mode and various things I've seen from Thracia make me respect the attention to detail the older games had. I get it, when the majority of your player base is going to get the "everyone alive" variant anyway thanks to Casual and Phoenix mode, there's no reason beyond spending extra time in a already rushed development cycle to program the alts. I just wish they had the time/heart to program them anyway as they make the games feel truly fleshed out.

Not just Casual/Phoenix mode. Even in Classic, half the cast has plot armor because they're 'main' characters or potential parents. People should die when they're killed.

[BrightBow]

This is why I don't understand so many peoples' distaste for Lyn mode. 'Forced tutorial' or not, it's one of the most charming segments of a Fire Emblem game. Lyn's Legions actually felt like a family.

Not just Casual/Phoenix mode. Even in Classic, half the cast has plot armor because they're 'main' characters or potential parents. People should die when they're killed.

I wonder why the parents have plot armor anyway. If they get defeated, you can't get their children anyway.

But even in the case of characters who don't actually die when they are killed, there is quite a contrast between Awakening/Fates and the Telius games. While in the former, the characters are quick to leave the battlefield, in Tellius Ike usually has to pretty much drag his injured comrades from the battlefield kicking and screaming. Like in this example from PoR:

Titania: Urgh! Ah… …I can still… …can still…fight…

Ike: Stop it, Titania! That wound could kill you! Hurry up and retreat!

Titania: For Crimea… I must… This war hangs in the balance… I cannot withdraw…

Ike: No, that’s why you have to withdraw! I need you alive! We’ll be all right! Believe in us!

Titania: I understand…Ike. And I’m sorry.

Edited October 21, 2016 by BrightBow

[NekoKnight]

I wonder why the parents have plot armor anyway. If they get defeated, you can't get their children anyway.

But even in the case of characters who don't actually die when they are killed, there is quite a contrast between Awakening/Fates and the Telius games. While in the former, the characters are quick to leave the battlefield, in Tellius Ike usually has to pretty much drag his injured comrades from the battlefield kicking and screaming. Like in this example from PoR:

I think it's more of an issue for after the children are recruited. Maybe they didn't want to change child supports that make reference to the parent.

[MCProductions]

This is why I don't understand so many peoples' distaste for Lyn mode. 'Forced tutorial' or not, it's one of the most charming segments of a Fire Emblem game. Lyn's Legions actually felt like a family.

Not just Casual/Phoenix mode. Even in Classic, half the cast has plot armor because they're 'main' characters or potential parents. People should die when they're killed.

Hence the lack of attention to detail I mentioned. Why write alts for the paralouges and the mother/child supports if say, Saizo, dies in classic mode when Casual mode exists where that's never an issue? You wouldn't unless you had the extra development time AND the care to put the alts in there in the first place. Fates clearly was rushed if the story and several visual and audio oddities in the game are any indication, so even if the writers DID care to write alt convos, they may not have had time too.

[Rezzy]

I doubt the series will ever have that again when permadeath is still a thing

They could do a mixture of Base Conversations, like in PoR/RD or have a character that can't be killed say the lines that the unit would otherwise say.

I wonder why the parents have plot armor anyway. If they get defeated, you can't get their children anyway.

But even in the case of characters who don't actually die when they are killed, there is quite a contrast between Awakening/Fates and the Telius games. While in the former, the characters are quick to leave the battlefield, in Tellius Ike usually has to pretty much drag his injured comrades from the battlefield kicking and screaming. Like in this example from PoR:

Some of the dads appear in paralogues for other kids. Saizo appears in Azama's kid's paralogue, if I remember correctly for example.

[Jotari]

You know, while I'l often defend the new FEs on a lot of things, this is where they seriously dropped the ball. I get the series has evolved and in some sense departed from the original ironman vision but FE7 Lyn mode and various things I've seen from Thracia make me respect the attention to detail the older games had. I get it, when the majority of your player base is going to get the "everyone alive" variant anyway thanks to Casual and Phoenix mode, there's no reason beyond spending extra time in a already rushed development cycle to program the alts. I just wish they had the time/heart to program them anyway as they make the games feel truly fleshed out.

Thracia? Are you referring to different Gaidens and characters available if certain characters are dead or unrecruited? Because I can't recall any specific dialogue that changes in that game aside from the ending where you might or might not have saved Evyel.

This is why I don't understand so many peoples' distaste for Lyn mode. 'Forced tutorial' or not, it's one of the most charming segments of a Fire Emblem game. Lyn's Legions actually felt like a family.

Not just Casual/Phoenix mode. Even in Classic, half the cast has plot armor because they're 'main' characters or potential parents. People should die when they're killed.

Uh. My cartridge for FE7 and the unfortunate habit of deleting my save file when it felt like it so I played through Lyn Mode like six times. The character moments are good but trust me, it's very frustrating when the game tells you how to move and doesn't let you take any other action other than what they've scripted. Probably not so bad if you actually are a beginner but it's pretty grating when you've already played six other games in the series and just want to play the damn game already but you can't because Sain insists on taking a vulnerary.

[NekoKnight]

Thracia? Are you referring to different Gaidens and characters available if certain characters are dead or unrecruited? Because I can't recall any specific dialogue that changes in that game aside from the ending where you might or might not have saved Evyel.

Uh. My cartridge for FE7 and the unfortunate habit of deleting my save file when it felt like it so I played through Lyn Mode like six times. The character moments are good but trust me, it's very frustrating when the game tells you how to move and doesn't let you take any other action other than what they've scripted. Probably not so bad if you actually are a beginner but it's pretty grating when you've already played six other games in the series and just want to play the damn game already but you can't because Sain insists on taking a vulnerary.

Fair enough but most games are pretty limited in the first chapter or two, even if they aren't quite as scripted.

[Jedi]

Fair enough but most games are pretty limited in the first chapter or two, even if they aren't quite as scripted.

Its interesting you bring this up, because I've seen a number of people suggest this is when FE gameplay is usually the strongest due to you having to make due with limits in terms of team/weapons etc, and since Lyns mode is a tutorial (unless on Hard Mode), alot of people find it busy work on replay instead of fun. (An interesting side note is that Japanese players could skip Lyn mode if they had FE6).

Which I can somewhat agree with, while I do really like the Lyn Mode dialog and stuff, nowadays I mostly skip all dialog in FE because I play more for the gameplay after I've played a FE through once. I still believe that Lyn mode has quite a few positives, but in the gameplay sense it adds barely anything to the experience aside from teaching newcomers how to play. It's kind of like the Kingdom Hearts 2 intro (Not the best comparison but hear me out), its nice for a first run, also a decent introduction to the series (although you'll be really confused in terms of plot for awhile), but on replay its tedious and monotonous you'll be skipping all the cutscenes to get to the meat of the actual game.

Which is kinda why I want to see a full out game with a smaller crew, who all pitch in regularly in convos, all with interesting gameplay, but I highly doubt it'll happen.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Jedi

[NekoKnight]

Its interesting you bring this up, because I've seen a number of people suggest this is when FE gameplay is usually the strongest due to you having to make due with limits in terms of team/weapons etc, and since Lyns mode is a tutorial (unless on Hard Mode), alot of people find it busy work on replay instead of fun. (An interesting side note is that Japanese players could skip Lyn mode if they had FE6).

The strongest? Does that mean fun? The first couple chapters of Revelation have an extremely limited cast and they are the most tedious chapters in any Fire Emblem I've played. Not trying to knock your opinion, I just don't understand why limited equals good.

[MCProductions]

Thracia? Are you referring to different Gaidens and characters available if certain characters are dead or unrecruited? Because I can't recall any specific dialogue that changes in that game aside from the ending where you might or might not have saved Evyel.

Thracia Ch.5, as bullshit as it is, legitimately impressed me with the attention to detail that map had. There's at least 5 different cutscenes that can possibly play depending on how that Arena fight goes down, like if Nanna dies, the cutscene is different, if Evyel gets captured and stoned before Leif opens the door to the arena, different cutscene, the attention to detail in that map alone impressed me so damn much about FE5 that while I can't put it in my top 3 due to it's flat out bullshit design at points, it earned it's position as my 5th favorite, lol, entirely due to it's attention to detail.

[Jotari]

Thracia Ch.5, as bullshit as it is, legitimately impressed me with the attention to detail that map had. There's at least 5 different cutscenes that can possibly play depending on how that Arena fight goes down, like if Nanna dies, the cutscene is different, if Evyel gets captured and stoned before Leif opens the door to the arena, different cutscene, the attention to detail in that map alone impressed me so damn much about FE5 that while I can't put it in my top 3 due to it's flat out bullshit design at points, it earned it's position as my 5th favorite, lol, entirely due to it's attention to detail.

Oh yeah. Mother and Child is like the best example of Gameplay Story Integration in the series hands down.

[Jedi]

The strongest? Does that mean fun? The first couple chapters of Revelation have an extremely limited cast and they are the most tedious chapters in any Fire Emblem I've played. Not trying to knock your opinion, I just don't understand why limited equals good.

Well Revelations did everything incredibly wrong, its easy to knock it based on that.

People tend to find early game some of the best gameplay in FE though, like with a weak army in FE6 having to deal with threats as a team, FE12's prologue chapters being like mini puzzles on Lunatic, early game of 5 being generally thought provoking on a first run, 10 having to deal with using the weaker Dawn Brigade etc.

I just see alot of praise for these early games.

[Dunal]

FE9 did a pretty good job in this too, don't forget. At least in its early game (CH1-CH9 or so).

Of course, once you have a certain amount of units, it becomes difficult to keep it up. But at least FE9/10 had base convos.