re: DLC character growths

[geozeldadude]

[reposting b/c previous thread was locked]

i see the base stats of einherjar documented online, but do they just have base class growths, or do they also have personal growths? anyone know? eggclipse suggested they use the avatar's base growths, but i don't know what she was basing that off of.

[VincentASM]

Hmm, that's a good question. Common consensus is that they have the same growths as an Avatar with specific Asset and Flaw combinations that match their max stat modifiers.

That said, I don't think anybody's conclusively proved it, one way or another.

I can try fiddling around with the code, but I'm a bit busy and Awakening is annoying since the growth rates are encrypted there (thankfully, they gave up encrypting the growths in Fates).

One thing you can try is using the zero growths hack and observing if any Einherjar gain stats. I zero'd out the Asset/Flaw growth contributions and I *think* I zero'd the guest Avatar personal growths, but I'm not 100% sure.

It's also possible that DLC Marth or some variation of Marth has his own separate growths. Well, he does, but dunno if they are used in-game or not.

[geozeldadude]

thanks for the reply. another thing to try would be to take a bunch of low-level unpromoted spotpass units of the same class (e.g. mage), and level them all up a bunch and see if the growths look like they're about the same. not sure who'd have the patience to do that, though.

[VincentASM]

Yeah, that's an option for those who don't want to go under the hood ^^

OK, I'm building a ROM with the following properties:

Avatar Male's HP to Skill growths = 100, 0 otherwise

Avatar Female's Speed to Res growths = 100, 0 otherwise

Avatar Guest's growths = 100

Old Marth's growths = 0

Asset growth bonus = +100 to the specified stat (eg. +100 for HP Asset)

Flaw growth bonus = -100 to the specified stat (eg. -100 for HP Asset)

Hopefully it should be easy to observe the growth behaviour this way : )

Also, this might be my imagination, but I'm wondering if DLC Marth inherits Aptitude from Donnel. I removed Aptitude from Donnel for the 0% growths hack, although I stupidly left in Aptitude for Villager, so Donnel gets Aptitude anyway, when he joins. But Marth joined with just Charm and not Aptitude.

To confirm my suspicion, I've given Donnel Wyrmsbane for kicks.

[geozeldadude]

i'm not exactly sure about your specifics, but i'll assume you know what you're doing. ;) this will test the possible difference between DLC marth vs. regular spotpass marth also, right?

[VincentASM]

So I kind of botched my experiment somehow. Maybe I encrypted my growths incorrectly, but female Avatar still has 0% growth rates across the board.

Also, I was dumb and forgot to add a minus sign for the Flaw bonuses, so they're all positive XD

On the plus side, I leveled up DLC Marth and he gained HP and Luck only for two Levels, which is consistent with a HP and Luck Asset/Flaw, so the Asset and Flaw are almost definitely used.

I'll go train some more Einherjar units and see what's causing the odd lack of growths... In case I forgot to mention, I'm using the 0% growth rates hack as a base.

Oh yeah, despite Donnel having Wyrmsbane, DLC Marth still joined with Charm only. I dunno what's causing his lack of Aptitude (he is supposed to have it, right?). Any ideas? o__o

[eclipse]

What would happen if you turned Aptitude into something like Skill +2/Armsthrift? I suspect the problem might be that Marth can't learn Wyrmsbane normally. Of the two suggested skills, Donnel can learn one of them naturally.

Edited October 26, 2016 by eggclipse

[VincentASM]

Thanks, I was semi-considering that, but wasn't sure if it was feasible. When I'm bored, I'll give it a try, as well as giving Donnel back Aptitude to see if it that solves anything.

It doesn't help it takes around 30 mins to set up a new ROM each time ^^;;;

Anyway, I did a few more tests and these ones were a lot more encouraging. While Avatar F still has 0% growth rates for reasons I can't understand, Avatar M is fine. So he has 100% in the first four stats.

From my tests, it seems all three versions of Marth use the "Old Marth" set of growths. When I levelled them up, they gained no stats except for the stats that matched their Asset/Flaw. The other possibility is that at least one of them is using the Avatar F growths (or another character's growths that I've set to zero).

Next, I'll change the "Old Marth" growths to check if my hypothesis is correct.

In addition, it seems all other Einherjar units (SpotPass, DLC or guest Avatars) use the "Guest Avatar" growths, which are the same as the male/female Avatar's growths. When I leveled up DLC Leif, SpotPass Florina and an Avatar I met via StreetPass, they gained 2 in the stats that matched their Asset/Flaw and 1 in all other stats.

I don't have time to test the other 100+ Einherhar units, but this appears to be a safe bet.

[TheSilentChloey]

Pr. Marth does come with aptitude, I had a quick look on my Awakening F!Robin run. Not sure if that's entirely helpful but he does have it and charm.

Edited October 26, 2016 by TheSilentChloey

[geozeldadude]

I don't have time to test the other 100+ Einherhar units, but this appears to be a safe bet.

great! thanks for taking the time to verify this. btw, i'm sure this gets asked a lot, but do you know of an easy way to check what asset/flaw you had picked? i started up an old save and i don't remember what i picked at all.

[VincentASM]

Pr. Marth does come with aptitude, I had a quick look on my Awakening F!Robin run. Not sure if that's entirely helpful but he does have it and charm.

Thanks. Hmm, not sure what I did to make Aptitude disappear, but I suppose it's not terribly important. Maybe I was just sloppy when I edited the file or maybe something more sinister, I'll have to figure it out later.

great! thanks for taking the time to verify this. btw, i'm sure this gets asked a lot, but do you know of an easy way to check what asset/flaw you had picked? i started up an old save and i don't remember what i picked at all.

Haha, I have no idea either besides capping your Avatar's stats and working backwards.

Anyway, I ran some more tests and for some darn reason, the Speed, Luck, Defence and Resistance growth rates for both Avatar male and female are bugged (not 100% as I calculated, closer to 0% or maybe even negative). No idea why. I'll probably need to try again using a fresh ROM later.

Good news: The three Marths indeed use the "Old Marth" growth rates.

Assuming I calibrated the numbers properly, they should be:

45    40    20    45    45    80    35    25

So unless there are some more exceptions, the growth rates for Einherjars are calculated like you would with the Avatar, using the Asset and Flaws listed here.

If the Einherjar is one of the three Marths, replace the Avatar's base growth rates with the set listed above.

DLC Marth should theoretically be able to gain 2 points in Luck with Aptitude. 80 base Luck + 15 from his Luck Asset + 20 from Aptitude = 115 Luck growth. I believe I once saw a screenshot where this happened as well.

Edited October 26, 2016 by VincentASM

[VincentASM]

DLC and SpotPass characters added to the growth rates page.

If anybody wants to update the FE wikis or give them a heads up (if they don't already know), be my guest ^^