Korath88 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, DehNutCase said: Dragon Fang Alm fails 19 KOs versus the TA 3, Sword Breaker combo. That's not 1 less KO, that's 10 less. (And I used Life & Death in place of Fury, Fury fails 23, death blow does best at 17 failed KOs) Basically: Rather than the majority of blues dying anyway, the majority of blues now live. Edit: +Def/-Res Fury 3 Lucina, +Spd/-Res Fury 3 Chrom, and +Def/-Res Fury 3 Marth also have 0 losing matchups on offense. (There's more builds that work, of course.) Not losing isn't exactly hard to do. Double Edit: That said, I guess the main issue I have with your build is that you've turned Alm into Marth-lite. Nothing wrong with Marth-lite, but it does completely ignore Alm's own niche. Chrom has the fact that he's the least disadvantaged breakers and TA3, he has the Atk to brute force through TA, and is slow enough that breakers don't change anything. Lucina is the 'just bulky enough' glass cannon, even L&D it's hard to 1HKO her, meaning she has the best turn 1 offenses. Marth is basically Wo Dao Selena, fair bulk, decent offenses. Good for off-tanking and taking the occasional KO. Alm has his own niche as an off-tank and chipper---worse offenses than Marth, but much better at providing sustained damage since he doesn't pay HP to attack people. Again, nothing wrong with the build, just... very slightly grating, I suppose. It may well be that Marth-lite is the best build for Alm in the meta, but it's not a niche only Alm can fill, if you know what I mean. (I mean, technically Marth can rob Alm and take his role, but that's quite pricey---something that often matters. Takumi might be the best archer, but I'm not going to run him as my Brave Bow user over Klein, because it's just too much investment.) Where are you getting those numbers from? I don't see any way to input enemy skill combinations into the mass duel calculator. Edit: never mind, found it By no losses, I meant no losses with an optimal nature. The other 3 require redundant or suboptimal natures in order to achieve 0 losses against the neutral cast. Also, turning a +Spd unit with 37 spd into a chipper is a waste of potential IMO, and not worth the ORKOs he misses out on. Not to mention that chippers don't really have a place in serious arena teams. I tried doing that at first to little effect, as my other units can easily ORKO without needing chip damage. Marth lite means nothing if I don't even own marth in the first place. I'm not a whale, remember? I don't even have any of the other falchion users for that matter. Edited April 19, 2017 by Korath88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) ...Why. Why is that skill even available to armors? Edited April 19, 2017 by Othin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaden Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) @eclipse, you could just get her loaded with SP and wait until you get the right units to inherit skills from. It's going to be annoying knowing she won't have a lot of skills or any skills depending on what you're doing. Right now, I'm training the quest Sophia since I want to merge the -Atk 4* Sophia to get her default skills and add in whatever else I'd want. Neither quest Sophia or spare Oboro have gotten any of their default skills since I want as much SP as possible. Gonna hold off until Zephiel's done since if Sophia's a key player, then I'm screwed as quest Sophia is only level 27. Edit: Now I'm curious if it's possible to do a Lunatic GHB with 3* units and no skills outside of "necessary" ones like weapons and maybe dance for dancers. It'd be insane, but amazing. Edited April 19, 2017 by Kaden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Korath88 said: Where are you getting those numbers from? I don't see any way to input enemy skill combinations into the mass duel calculator. Also, turning a +Spd unit with 37 spd into a chipper is a waste of potential IMO, and not worth the ORKOs he misses out on. Not to mention that chippers don't really have a place in serious arena teams. Marth lite means nothing if I don't even own marth in the first place. I'm not a whale, remember? Slower, more defensive builds are perfectly viable in arena. Just ask eclipse about how she manages. Somehow I doubt it's anything close to my 2 S-tier offense + dancer teams. (She uses debuffs and stat manipulation IRRC, which are only useful if people don't die in one turn.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korath88 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: Slower, more defensive builds are perfectly viable in arena. Just ask eclipse about how she manages. Somehow I doubt it's anything close to my 2 S-tier offense + dancer teams. (She uses debuffs and stat manipulation IRRC, which are only useful if people don't die in one turn.) I just edited my previous post with some additional points. My arena team before this week was basically slow units w/ breaker skills/quick riposte + dancer. Adding a relatively fast unit would benefit me more than one that can't double on player phase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Korath88 said: I just edited my previous post with some additional points. My arena team before this week was basically slow units w/ breaker skills/quick riposte + dancer. Adding a relatively fast unit would benefit me more than one that can't double on player phase I mean, I'm not saying he won't work for you. If he's working, he's working, just not in a niche unique to him, or easy for him to fill. (Most people, for example, wouldn't pull a +Spd/-Res Alm. And most people wouldn't try to turn Marth into Alm by inheriting Alm into Marth.) Also, don't look at IVs, look at stat spreads. I'd run -Atk Cordelia over Clair any day, for example, her spread is just that good. -Atk/+Res doesn't mean anything if you have completely bonkers offenses to begin with. Similar story for -Spd Nino, she's still =Tharja tier, and I'd run her over Tharja if I needed green more than red. The 'sub-optimal' spreads still has Lucina with better on offensive than Alm, Marth about the same (slightly worse), and Chrom actually BETTER than Alm, though very slightly (32 Spd does work off his absurd atk stat). Edited April 19, 2017 by DehNutCase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 21 minutes ago, Kaden said: @eclipse, you could just get her loaded with SP and wait until you get the right units to inherit skills from. It's going to be annoying knowing she won't have a lot of skills or any skills depending on what you're doing. Maybe when I have the time! 13 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: Slower, more defensive builds are perfectly viable in arena. Just ask eclipse about how she manages. Somehow I doubt it's anything close to my 2 S-tier offense + dancer teams. (She uses debuffs and stat manipulation IRRC, which are only useful if people don't die in one turn.) It's several things: - Knowing ORKO/OHKO/doubling thresholds, on both my units and the opponent's units - AI manipulation - Seal skill abuse - Lots and lots of mistakes That's what happens when the majority of your units have odd boon/bane combos. Rather than complain, I work around their banes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirp Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 26 minutes ago, Othin said: ...Why. Why is that skill even available to armors? Maybe it combos with Smite to enable a warping Hector ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korath88 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: I mean, I'm not saying he won't work for you. If he's working, he's working, just not in a niche unique to him, or easy for him to fill. (Most people, for example, wouldn't pull a +Spd/-Res Alm. And most people wouldn't try to turn Marth into Alm by inheriting Alm into Marth.) Also, don't look at IVs, look at stat spreads. I'd run -Atk Cordelia over Clair any day, for example, her spread is just that good. -Atk/+Res doesn't mean anything if you have completely bonkers offenses to begin with. Similar story for -Spd Nino, she's still =Tharja tier, and I'd run her over Tharja if I needed green more than red. The 'sub-optimal' spreads still has Lucina better on offensive than Alm, Marth about the same (slightly worse), and Chrom actually BETTER than Alm, though very slightly (32 Spd does work off his absurd atk stat). Well, using "good but outclassed" units is my thing after all. I mean, my arena team is Alm, Ninian, Lilina and Ephraim ffs. I still make them work anyways because character>stats for me. Fun fact, all 4 of them have been "bad unit" circlejerked on Reddit at least once before. Edited April 19, 2017 by Korath88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Korath88 said: Well, using "good but outclassed" units is my thing after all. I mean, my arena team is Alm, Ninian, Lilina and Ephraim. I still make them work anyways because character>stats for me. Also all 4 of them have been "bad unit" circlejerked on Reddit at least once before. Reddit thinks Setsuna is S-tier. That's all there is to say about that place. Anyway, out-classed doesn't actually matter that much. What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that your Alm bothers me, but not enough that I'm actually angry at you or anything, and you probably shouldn't be letting me being slightly bothered bother you at all. (Sorry.) Edit: Think of it as me having a mild OCD about unit-builds, your Alm triggers it, but I know it's not actually a bad unit. Edited April 19, 2017 by DehNutCase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korath88 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 minute ago, DehNutCase said: Reddit thinks Setsuna is S-tier. That's all there is to say about that place. Anyway, out-classed doesn't actually matter that much. What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that your Alm bothers me, but not enough that I'm actually angry at you or anything, and you probably shouldn't be letting me being slightly bothered bother you at all. (Sorry.) Never really got the impression that you were annoyed. After all, criticism is what helps us make better skillsets right? No hard feelings, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korath88 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) New quests, and free Pegasus sisters for everyone! No Zephiel though :( Edit: whoops, didn't realise this was a double post Edited April 19, 2017 by Korath88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Lol, I already have all the pegasus sisters, but I needed a spare Catria to pass along Luna to Sharena anyway. And a third Palla for wings of mercy is always a plus. Est, uh ... does anyone want her skills? More orbs though, yay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Oh hey, I've always wanted a Catria :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roflolxp54 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Ooh, the 3 Whitewing Sisters set! ^^ And quests that actually take some time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Yeeeeeee, I always wanted a Catria. I might train her up and promote her eventually, actually. Extra Est doesn't matter, but extra Palla for Wings of Mercy is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExKalibur Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Hmm... looks like everyone wants a Catria (myself included). Neutral IVs are also cool too; can't complain :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyainou Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 well..im glad that est/catria/palla's character art in fe:h wasn't done by the same artist who is doing fe:e.. in comparison, palla especially looks incredibly..bad? anyway, im thankful for the extra palla, since i want to have 5* whitewing sisters eventually! palla is the only 3* one of these girls ive got, so shedding off some extra feathers for her upgrade is nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchi Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 This will be my 3rd Catria now lol ( already have her as a Lvl 39 5* and a 4* version of her ) and my nth Palla. Free Luna/Moonbow for even more skill fodder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, lordcorrin said: well..im glad that est/catria/palla's character art in fe:h wasn't done by the same artist who is doing fe:e.. in comparison, palla especially looks incredibly..bad? anyway, im thankful for the extra palla, since i want to have 5* whitewing sisters eventually! palla is the only 3* one of these girls ive got, so shedding off some extra feathers for her upgrade is nice. I like Hidari's style, but I'll admit, I prefer FEH Palla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 minute ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said: I like Hidari's style, but I'll admit, I prefer FEH Palla. Catria though. That spine twist isn't healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Just now, Vaximillian said: Catria though. That spine twist isn't healthy. Her popularity remains healthy tho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said: Her popularity remains healthy tho! Can't argue there. My queen of skies doesn't have to do such feats to remain popular for me, though. All in all, nice little set of quests brought me to 30 orbs again. Off to the summoning stone I go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 12 minutes ago, Vaximillian said: Catria though. That spine twist isn't healthy. Kind of hard to see anything above her waist when your eyes are constantly being dragged back down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Vaximillian said: Can't argue there. My queen of skies doesn't have to do such feats to remain popular for me, though. All in all, nice little set of quests brought me to 30 orbs again. Off to the summoning stone I go! I think I like Palla better. Apparently no one likes Est though lol. 1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said: Kind of hard to see anything above her waist when your eyes are constantly being dragged back down. The rotating motion generates an inescapable vacuum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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