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10 hours ago, XRay said:

With the recent release of Gambit, Magic Gambit, and Laguz Friend, while you still ideally want to trigger Specials as often as possible, these new skills allow your units to be less reliant on Special triggers for performance. Gambit and Magic Gambit work best with high cooldown Specials, and ideally, you do not want the unit to have Slaying effect on their Weapon since it reduces the effect of those two skills.

Even better, or at least alternatively, you want the unit to have Blade tome's and Lightning Breath's effect that slows Special trigger, so instead of Aether, you can run Ignis or Glacies that can deal more damage when they do trigger (and also assuming the unit has enough Def/Res for that). However, the main issue with that is that those are the only two categories of Weapons that slows Special triggers, and both are quite outdated now. Blade tomes are nice, but raw power alone is not enough these days, and units with exclusive Blade tomes lost the effect that slows Special trigger, and their Def/Res are not particularly high either to take full advantage of Ignis and Glacies. I think Nowi is the only Hero with an exclusive Weapon that slows Special trigger, but there is no Dragon Gambit yet for her yet, and even if there is, her exclusive Weapon is pretty dated by now, and she will probably be better off running an Arcane Weapon with Dragon Wrath to simulate Gambit.

Due to the fact that the Trace 4 skills now grant 7 additional damage in addition to having an upgraded Canto effect and having easier inheritance prerequisites, there isn't really much of a reason to run Gambit on mounted units unless the unit has a weapon or other skill that grants +1 Special charge rate to more reliably activate your Special.

While it's nice getting 15 additional damage on every hit and 50% damage reduction with a non-functional Aether, if you have the option to run +1 Special charge rate with a 4-cooldown Aether or Trace 4 with a strong enough Special, you really should take that option instead.

A 4-cooldown Aether with +1 Special charge rate still gives you 10 additional damage per hit and 40% damage reduction, and the Aether makes up for the lost additional damage as long as the opponent has at least 20 Def or Res, which almost all units have. Trace 4 with a 2-cooldown Luna makes up for the lost additional damage as long as the opponent has 32 Def or Res, which is still pretty common, and while No Quarter requires a much higher 54 Def to break even, it nullifies percentage damage reduction, which still gives it an edge against the tanks that really matter.

 

On infantry units, Gambit 4 has significant competition with the large number of infantry-exclusive skills, like Dodge 4, tier-4 Null Follow-Up skills, and Tempo 4. While Pledge gives infantry units greater access to +1 Special charge rate, this means that even if you're running Gambit 4, it's still better to run a 4-cooldown Special instead of a 5-cooldown Special for the same reason as detailed above unless you're getting Pulse support to make a 5-cooldown Special functional.

On armor, the only reason to run Gambit 4 is if you're running a 4-cooldown Aether with +1 Special charge rate as a source of passive healing. However, you're usually better off running one of the armor-exclusive Specials instead and offloading healing to another skill slot (or team member) since percentage damage reduction from the Special slot cannot be nullified.

The tier-4 Poison Strike skills also deal more than enough damage in combination with a functional Special to compete with Gambit 4 offensively on units that don't need Gambit 4's defensive effects.

 

Units running Laguz Friend 4 exclusively want to be running one of the following:

  • a 2-cooldown defensive Special
  • a 3-cooldown offensive Special
  • a 4-cooldown offensive Special with either +1 Special charge rate or Time's Pulse 4
  • a 5-cooldown offensive Special with both +1 Special charge rate and Time's Pulse 4

Time's Pulse 3, Infantry Pulse 4, and Pulse Up (and team supports with the same effect) are a viable replacements for Time's Pulse 4 in game modes where you can lure out one enemy at a time or on units that fight primarily on player phase.

The offensive Tempo effect is highly recommended on any Laguz Friend 4 build that runs an offensive Special, though you can sacrifice power to run a 2-cooldown Special if you really need the reliability.

+1 Special charge rate will become less reliable as more units get access to the defensive Tempo effect.

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Posted (edited)

I'm pretty sure the last time I was in this thread it was about Ross. Well, I knew what I wanted to do following that, but the fodder didn't end up falling into my hands for a long time. Now things have changed again and a lot of new skills have been introduced and I'd like to hear what could be the best way to make him current today. Laguz Friend seems like the end all B all for most tanks, but I'll share a couple ideas I got right away.

Fe-H-Unit-builder-Ross-His-Father-s-Son.

Weapon: I don't believe there is a better Axe out there for him than his prf. I hear the Axe of Devotion is really good with it's pre-combat damage and boosts to ATK/DEF which seem like they'd be really good for Laguz Friend 4, but he would lose his healing, the boost to his damage from his very high HP, and most importantly the brave effect which really helps him. Even with the +5 SPD he'd get from swapping his prf out. He's not doubling anything in today's meta.

Especially without NFU which is not in the cards without outsourcing. I just don't see any other axe working for him. I'm open to suggestions though, if people know the numbers and other Axes could prove useful, please share.

Assist: Harsh Command+ for Arena. Reposition for everything else. Pretty standard.

Special: The special charge you get from Laguz friend is really helpful here. Even though it only works when the enemy strikes first, it all but guarantees that Ross is going to proc Aether if he survives the initial strike(s) from the enemy. Then, if they don't have any sort of Guard effect Ross will strike immediately with Aether, blow through all DR and get pretty much all his health back. This is why Aether is here instead of something like Ignis or no Quarter which probably have more killing power. I like having the sustain. Emblem Marth is the choice here since Aether is the skill of choice. Otherwise, Emblem Ike would probably be my pick If I was running anything below 5 cooldown.

A-Skill: This is the most flexible slot. I want Ross to be able to tank ranked units, he's always been able to. D Bonus Doubler seems like the way to go here. I don't know if the in combat doubler bonuses to his DEF contribute to Laguz Friend 4, but all the better if they do. Otherwise, Earthfire Boost 4 or ATK/DEF Finish 4 seem like fantastic choices if we're running the DC-M Seal. Between the two of those, Earthfire would be better because of Ross' Prf and high base HP, but that's cream of the crop fodder I most certainly don't have.

B-Skill: This is the skill everyone is raving about, and it lives up to it's name. Now, in Ross' case. He has no native DR and he's losing not half, but all of his DR and 15 points of true damage since he's swapping out Gambit. But the (DEF) bonuses he gets from his A,C and X skills should be around 15 at any given time. Based on my math of his DEF at that point, he should get around 11 additional points of damage when he procs his special, which is a 4 point loss from Gambit when proccing specials, but a huge loss otherwise. But the trade off is that he's pretty reliably killing most things he procs his special against otherwise, which is nice.

As for DR, he's only negating 11 points of damage instead of half of it, but it's non piercable, so he may be able to survive certain rounds of combat he otherwise wouldn't. In walks his C skill to help with this.

C-Skill: Laguz Friend 4 is the reason why this is here instead of ATK/SPD Pledge as it'll help with survivability as well as contribute to true damage when proccing specials. That and it means that he'll always have Bonus Doubler active even if his allies lack bonuses themselves. The special acceleration from Pledge combined with Laguz Friend's Spectrum Rush also means that even if they double him and/or have the Guard/Tempo effect active he'll still proc Aether on his counter on EP (assuming he survives.)

S-Skill: The HP helps with his weapon and more ATK and SPD is always welcome, though maybe ATK/DEF would be better. Or the Guard Seal? I don't really know. This is almost a placeholder at this point. I've had this seal equipped for so long I don't really know what I'd put here to be honest.

X-Skill: ATK Oath Echo allows him to warp and he automatically gets +10 ATK because of Bonus Doubler which is a boon to his damage. We could put Guard Echo here for the special blocking, but he'd only be getting 10% piercable DR on the first hit which is pretty pitiful. Plus the Guard Effect isn't that worthwhile even in this slot when so many units already have their specials ready when combat starts. I'd need something like Veyle/F!Veyle support which I don't currently have at the moment.

This build seems pretty solid overall but I did have another idea to modernize him.

Fe-H-Unit-builder-Ross-His-Father-s-Son-

Weapon: I still see no reason to change the weapon for this build. Arcane Downfall is pretty terrible, Axe of Devotion makes even less sense here and he's too slow to make use of Arcane Prima.

Assist: Same as before.

Special: We could use Aether here as well. But an argument could be make for Ignis. Emblem Marth is here to make proccing Ignis more reliable, but Emblem Ike could be a really good option here as well. For this build I'm more open to suggestion for the special+emblem.

A-Skill: This is the bread and butter of this build. Combined with Laguz Friend 4 we'd be looking at 15-18 points of flat DR at minimum and 21-24 if they have nonsense movement, can warp or HE can warp. This makes Ross really hard to oneshot through his nonsensical HP and he's pretty much gonna oneshot them back when he procs his special.

B-Skill: It does all the same things it does in the other build, only here it stacks with ATK/SPD Excel's flat DR and makes Ross a lot more tanky. He loses maybe a point or so of flat DR after swapping out his A and S skills, but the ATK bonus from Excel helps to alleviate that. Most importantly, less things will oneshot him on EP and he'll still reliably kill most things with a special proc on retaliation.

C-Skill: ATK/SPD Pledge could actually be potentially more beneficial here, because the boost to ATK could help him kill things on initiation and he's not benefiting from Bonus Doubler, still I think the boost to his defensive stats would be helpful for him to not die. Things just hit really hard in the current meta and I'm less worried about him killing things and more worried about getting blown up before he can actually attack.

S-Skill: DC in the Seal slot is pretty much mandatory for what I want him to do. You can suggest something else optimal if I want to just make him a melee only take every now and then, but generally I want him to have DC. Plus it's arena optimal so that's a bonus.

X-Skill: In this case I would take the Guard Effect. Yes, 10% piercable DR is peanuts. But backed by +20 true DR it suddenly becomes a lot more noticeable and that percentage can be the difference between surviving and being oneshot.

Now,  the biggest weakness in this build is that there's no counter to sweep effects. He has no Null-C of any kind and he can pretty much be swept effortlessly. But he's an older unit and he's not a premium one. Can't expect him to do it all. But with this build he should be able to survive a lot of the heavy hitters potentially and kill them on the counter. He'll never survive Ninja Sanaki or Duo Lyon or anything like that, but he should be a pretty dangerous force to be reckoned with.

Once again, any suggestions are welcome. I can pretty realistically get fodder for just about all of this stuff within the week.

Edited by Zeo
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11 minutes ago, Zeo said:

I'm pretty sure the last time I was in this thread it was about Ross. Well, I knew what I wanted to do following that, but the fodder didn't end up falling into my hands for a long time. Now things have changed again and a lot of new skills have been introduced and I'd like to hear what could be the best way to make him current today. Laguz Friend seems like the end all B all for most tanks, but I'll share a couple ideas I got right away.

Ross [+Atk / +Def / +Res]
Father's-Son Axe [unique]
[Assist]
Bonfire / Ignis
Earthfire Boost 3 / Atk/Def Finish 4 / D Bonus Doubler
Laguz Friend 4
Def/Res Pledge
Distant Counter (M) / Atk/Def Finish 3
Atk Oath Echo / Guard Echo

If you're running one of the Distant Counter skills, I recommend Emblem Ike over Emblem Marth. Because Engage effects count as part of the unit's Special, Emblem Ike's percentage damage reduction effect is not affected by Laguz Friend 4 nullifying half of your own percentage damage reduction.

As long as the opponent doesn't have both Guard and Tempo, Bonfire is guaranteed to activate on your first counterattack and Ignis is guaranteed to activate on the Brave hit. If the opponent has neither effect, Ignis will activate on your first counterattack.

If you're running a build without Distant Counter, run Emblem Marth with either Ignis or Aether.

Otherwise, this is basically the same as your first build.

I don't recommend Excel for this build because Laguz Friend 4 is functionally exclusively an enemy-phase skill unless the unit can perform a follow-up on player phase or grants the opponent Vantage, and Excel's first defensive effect is only active on player phase.

You can also substitute Axe of Devotion+ [Def] for the weapon if you want the pre-combat damage from it. Wind Tribe Club+ [Def] is also an option to make Laguz Friend 4 viable on player phase.

 

Ross [+Spd / +Atk]
Arcane Thrima [Spd]
[Assist]
No Quarter
Atk/Spd Finish 4 / Firestorm Boost 3 / D Bonus Doubler
Potent 4
Incite Atk/Spd / Atk/Spd Pledge
Distant Counter (M) / Atk/Spd Ideal 3
Guard Echo / Mercy-Wing Echo

Ross is barely fast enough to make Potent 4 viable as long as he has a Spd-boosting weapon, and Arcane Thrima is currently the best one for this purpose. Ideally, you also want a teammate that can debuff the opponent's Spd to make it easier to activate Potent 4 and synergize with Arcane Thrima's Sabotage effect.

Atk Oath Echo will be an option for this build once we get Spd/Def variants of Incite or Pledge, though Def Oath Echo with the Atk/Spd variants of Incite or Pledge would be ideal if you're running this combination of effects.

Atk/Spd Ideal 3 in the Sacred Seal slot should be replaced with Atk/Spd Finish 3 once it's released.

This build is a bit more generic, though, since all of the skills on this build are inheritable and work on any axe infantry with a similar stat spread (and I literally lifted this build off of my analysis of this Hall of Forms' Summer Ylgr).

 

Ross [+Atk / +Def / +Res]
Father's-Son Axe [unique]
[Assist]
Aether
Earthfire Boost 3 / Atk/Def Finish 4 / D Bonus Doubler
Gambit 4
Def/Res Pledge
Distant Counter (M) / Atk/Def Finish 3
Atk Oath Echo / Guard Echo

Gambit 4 is still pretty good. This build wants Emblem Marth to lower Aether's cooldown to 4 so that it'll activate on the Brave attack on enemy phase.

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Posted (edited)

@Ice Dragon I wanted to say that despite not responding, I did in fact see your post and it ended up being exactly what I went for. Thank you for your help. I went for D Bonus Doubler and LF4 with DEF/RES Pledge on Ross with the Bonus Doubler 3 seal and ATK Oath Echo for the ATK stat doubling. But interestingly enough, It trades quite a bit of survivability and even kill capability as well. For quite a few PP units he survives with Gambit when they don't have DR Piercing or enough pre combat damages but dies with the LF4 build as he has no DR from any other source (unless he Runs Guard Echo for 10% piercable DR).

On the other hand, there are units that he doesn't kill with Gambit's extra damage because of the nonsense DR that he can't chew through, but he kills them with an Aether proc from LF4 due to DR Piercing.

Honestly, I'm not sure what's better for him at this point. It's not even really an upgrade... more of a sidegrade. He's securing a few more kills than he was before, but that was never really the issue. It was people one/two-shotting him through the DR and his huge HP, which they still do with the new build, perhaps even more so. I'm honestly not sure how to proceed at this point with him.

But I'm also onto another Issue. This guy here~

Fe-H-Unit-builder-Edward-Blade-of-Justic

Everyone just sees him as BoL4 fodder, but for me he's the last favorite I've been waiting to come to FEH. He's on the same level of favoritism as Ross/Ilyana/Matthew/Lyn/etc and so he most certainly will be invested to the Max and one day +10'ed. But for now one copy is fine and maybe a 2nd to fodder to a rearmed unit for dupe purposes.

Anyways, the thing. His weapon is fantastic and Godlike Reflexes is a no-brainer. The biggest thing is I'm not sure what to do with his A and B skills.

Weapon/Assist/Special: No reason to ever change the weapon. It gives basically LF3.5 with special jumping, half DR piercing, Flat DR and some stat boosts with the added bonus of damage reflection. Assist is whatever and the special would basically never be anything other that Godlike Reflexes. You could go Aegis or Pavise if you wanted to go all in on one specific type of enemy, but he loses a bit of reliability running Godlike Reflexes to become an all-around more dangerous unit I think.

Ike ring is very valuable, but on Edward it's a no-brainer. 64% un-piercable DR with 8-16 flat DR on top is a no brainer. He's susceptible to brave hits and that's what will kill him most of the time when it comes to ranged threats. That and sweep effects.

A Skill: Distant Counter is a placeholder.

This is the big thing. I'm not entirely sure where to go here. D Bonus Doubler seems like the obvious choice, but he actually does have the option to run DC in the Seal slot which would give him the freedom to do whatever he wants here. ATK/SPD Finish 4 seems like a no brainer if that's the case. +5 true damage, more stats to reliably proc Godlike Reflexes, and a bit of healing. His initial counter is probably going to blow up whatever it is he's attacking, but the extra oomph couldn't hurt at all.

Interestingly enough, I feel like SPD/DEF Finish 4 would actually be his best option here (Come to think of it... I'm not sure that skill exists yet.). As the speed would help with GDR and I think the DEF contributes towards LF4 if I'm not mistaken. It calculates in combat bonuses towards the DR and damage, does it not?

Either way, if there are other/better options, I'd love to hear them. ATK/SPD Excel seems decent since he could initiate because of his ATK/SPD stat, but I don't think it's worth it, especially given it's actually not that easy to give him NFU as an initiator.

B Skill: This is another big thing. Buffer 4 gives him more speed, and piercable DR, but most importantly, it all but guarantees that Godlike Reflexes will proc because of the phantom speed. 

Now, Laguz Friend 4 seems like it would be a nice skill because of what it improves on. His -1 cooldown before the enemy attacks becomes -3 which combats Scowl effects (GDR is a defensive special, which means he still gets the special jump even if it's not 3 cooldown or more) and his 8-16 flat DR from his weapon becomes 20-28 (Based on his DEF we can calculate around 10-12 points of flat DR from LF4, similar to Ross.). 

Finally he goes from 50% DR Piercing on all his to 100% DR piercing on all hits since his special is basically always going to be ready. On top of this he gets extra 10-12 damage from his DEF stat, basically nothing is surviving his counter, provided he survives their first attack/brave hit.

So why am I on the fence, well. First, Buffer 4 gives him a safety net, speedy units and debuffs are everywhere, because of that Godlike Reflexes isn't the most reliable special in the world, and as as one of his biggest layers of DR, if he can't proc it he's in trouble. Buffer 4 basically guarantees he'll proc it every time unless he's up against a faster unit that also has Buffer 4 (or is Lucia). With LF4, there's a chance it won't proc at all, which is a problem.

Additionally, 35-50% DR is quite a bit, even if piercable, in most cases, against an enemy without DR piercing there is a good chance Edward would take less damage with the DR from Buffer rather than the extra 10-12 DR he's getting from LF4. My math could be off, so I'd like a more informed opinion of why this would be a good swap to increase his overall performance. I want to give it to him, but I don't want to me quite as underwhelmed as I am with Ross. 

Oh, I guess I'll also throw in that Null C-Disrupt 4 is an option as well. Though I don't think it's worth giving up everything I just mentioned just to counter a few types of enemies and get a meager 30% piercable DR. Probably just have to take the L and let him have the weakness there.

C Skill: I don't have any real plans to swap out BoL4. It seems like pretty much the best C skill for him. The reason why this is here is because he most notably does not have NFU in his kit. He's one of the very few Godswords not to have that in any fashion. He could run Inf. Null Followup here and get the effect. He'd lose a lot of power and utility from BoL4 though I think, and a little DEF which helps with LF4. ATK/SPD Pledge is also an option, I'll give it to him, but I don't see any reason to use it.

S Skill: So.. his seal slot could go one or two ways. You run a Finish skill or anything else in the A slot and DC becomes mandatory. But if you run DC Bonus Doubler you actually have a lot of options. He wants NFU so he could run that, Hardy Bearing could be used to counter units that have a Desperation effect so Edward doesn't die (perfect example, F!Ursula can double and kill him if he doesn't run this seal) and I'm sure there are other options as well. 

X Skill: I guess Guard Echo would be the choice here. He gets another small source of DR and Guard is something I guess. It's his only real option. He's more of an EP unit so he doesn't care much for Atk Oath Echo or Mercy Echo. Same for Fleeting Echo and DB Echo is just bad.

If we ever get a Null C-Disrupt Echo that will be his best in slot for sure (along with probably... all of the other Omni-Tanks, honestly.

I have pretty much all the fodder I've discussed here except for D Bounus Doubler, so I can pull the trigger on anything, just don't know what to do yet.

Edited by Zeo
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Zeo said:

But I'm also onto another Issue. This guy here~

Caladbolg and Godlike Reflexes are obviously his best-in-slot skills for their respective skill slots. And, as usual, you should run whatever Assist skill makes most sense for your playstyle and the game mode you're in.

It's not worth running Vital Astra on him because his Pulse effect occurs in combat, which means he can't guarantee its damage reduction effect.

If you really, really, really don't want to run Godlike Reflexes for some reason, there's always the usual No Quarter and Ruptured Sky, but I don't really see a reason to do so given that Caladbolg is designed to be run with Godlike Reflexes.

If you're worried about units that can out-speed Godlike Reflexes, you obviously have the option to run pure melee or pure ranged with Pavise or Aegis and cover the other range with Save, Assign Decoy, or positioning.

 

For the A slot, you have the typical options of D Bonus Doubler if you want to run Distant Counter in the A slot and Atk/Spd Finish 4 and Firestorm Boost 3 if you want to run a melee-only build or Distant Counter in the S slot.

Distant A/S Solo is a slightly cheaper alternative to D Bonus Doubler.

 

I personally do not like Buffer 4 due to the fact that it has no secondary effect other than 2 stacks of Quickened Pulse, as that effect can be offloaded to a different unit, especially since Edward only needs 1 stack of Pulse due to his weapon providing the second stack. However, it's obviously the cheapest Dodge 4 skill available to him, and the only Dodge skill that is actually better is Spurn 4 since all of the other Dodge 4 skills also lack an in-combat secondary effect. Additionally, neither of the Dodge skills that are currently missing a tier-4 version (Frenzy and Velocity) would be of much use to him when their tier-4 versions are released unless they add an additional secondary effect since their current secondary effects are unnecessary to him.

Laguz Friend 4 is at best a side-grade for him. If you're using it, you're giving up on his match-ups against fast units that can out-speed his Godlike Reflexes in exchange for more flat damage reduction and percentage damage reduction nullification against slower units.

It's worth noting that Scowl is not actually a threat to him because its Special drain occurs before its opponent's first attack, not at the start of combat, which means it won't prevent Godlike Reflexes from activating on Edward's enemy phase. He is vulnerable to Melancholy and Pulse Smoke effects, but those are much rarer. I believe the most common source of these effects is Legendary Dimitri's Atrocity.

Potent 4 is also a decent side-grade for him. He already gets a gigantic Spd boost from his weapon, so Dodge 4's Phantom Spd will only be missed against opponents with similar gigantic Spd boosts, and even then, it's still feasible to make up for the remaining 3 points with well-placed support effects. Potent 4 provides a smaller maximum damage reduction effect compared to Dodge 4, but can't be nullified by units that can match him in Spd. But because Edward lacks Null Follow-Up on his weapon, Potent Follow grants an alternative means of getting a Null-Follow-Up-like effect at the cost of dealing slightly less damage than a natural follow-up. Additionally, Potent 4 gives him a way to double other fast opponents that can match his Spd. And since he's running Godlike Reflexes, there's no risk of wasting a damaging Special activation on a Potent Follow 40% hit.

 

If you can, I'd also offload Breath of Life 4 to a different unit since it has the same effect whether it's on the unit itself or if it's on a support unit. The primary downside of offloading the effect is that you become vulnerable to Feud. While Feud is becoming less common because the units that have the C skills are being replaced by newer units, it's still a threat in Aether Raids due to Embla inflicting it as a status effect. In game modes like Arena, it also might be worth keeping Breath of Life 4 because the stat bonuses that the alternative options provide are easy to offload to units running Rally+ for score, making the opportunity cost of running Breath of Life 4 less than in other game modes where Reposition is more commonly used.

Otherwise, he has the typical options of Atk/Spd Oath 4 and Incite Atk/Spd. Pledge isn't necessary since his weapon already has the offensive Tempo effect. If you're running Atk Oath Echo in the X slot, you'd ideally switch to either Incite Spd/Def or Incite Spd/Res once they're released.

Pulse Up: Blades is also an option if you can't offload Buffer 4's Pulse effect to a different unit. Infantry Pulse 4 is a slightly cheaper option, but requires you to offload stat bonuses, as well.

If you want Null Follow-Up, but can't offload it to a different unit or the S slot, Inf. Null Follow 4 is an option, though it overlaps with Atk Oath Echo.

 

Atk Oath Echo and Guard Echo are currently his best options in the X slot, but the choices are limited, so it might still be worth waiting for more options to be released if neither of these fit your build well.

 

In the S slot, he can run Distant Counter (M)Null Follow-Up 3Bonus Doubler 3, or any skill that boosts Atk/Spd directly. Atk/Spd Finish 3 will be the optimal skill once it's released, but in the meantime, it'll be one of Atk/Spd Solo 3Atk/Spd Ideal 3, or Atk/Spd Bond 3 depending on which condition is most reliable for the situation.

 

Emblem Ike is ideal for Distant Counter builds since his damage reduction effect cannot be nullified in any way. Emblem Marth can be used if you're worried about things like the Pulse Smoke effect (again, most commonly from Legendary Dimitri), but otherwise shouldn't be necessary.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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  • 2 weeks later...

Two questions:

  1. Spring Maria is going to appear on the new Hall of Forms. What skills should I try to get? Right now, she has Def/Res Catch, Guard Bearing 4, and Atk Def Oath.
  2. Would it be a good idea to use Attuned Micaiah's fodder for Valentia Palla? I assume that the Crux skill will let her hit four times. I don't know if the A Boost skill will be good on her, though.
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Looking to build Caeda in the upcoming HoF. Not looking to use her in any particular mode so I'm mainly aiming to maximize damage. I usually lean towards a dual phase build but the player phase skills are tempting. Are there other skills she would want? 

Kumo Naginata/Harsh Command+/No Quarter

Flared Sparow | Atk/Spd Clash

Assassin's Strike | Potent 4 

Deadly Miasma | Spd/Def Snap 

 

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5 hours ago, GuiltyLove said:

Spring Maria is going to appear on the new Hall of Forms. What skills should I try to get? Right now, she has Def/Res Catch, Guard Bearing 4, and Atk Def Oath.

Spring Maria [+Spd]
Axe of Devotion+ [Spd]
[Assist]
No Quarter
Earthwind Boost 3 / Atk/Spd Prime 4 / Atk/Def Prime 4 / Spd/Def Clash 4 / Spd/Def Catch 4 / Flared Sparrow
Wyvern Rift / Potent 4 / Guard Bearing 4 / Aerial Maneuvers / S/D Near Trace 4
S/D Rein Snap / Deadly Miasma

Spring Maria typically wants to run Spd/Def in the A slot, but Atk/Def and Atk/Spd are still usable if the Spd/Def version doesn't exist or if you don't think you need the extra Spd or Def.

Prime 4 is theoretically the best option for the A slot for a Distant Counter build, but the Spd/Def version doesn't exist yet. Boost 4 and Clash 4 are the best options if you are running a melee-only build or if you're willing to give up the Sacred Seal slot to run Distant Counter (M). Which one you pick depends on which secondary effect is more important to you, though if you're planning on running Guard Echo, it will overlap with Boost 4.

Catch 4 gives a few more points of stats, whereas Flared Sparrow sacrifices the enemy phase for a stronger player phase.

 

Wyvern Rift is the strongest B skill overall, but unlike Potent 4 and Guard Bearing 4, it lacks the percentage damage reduction to pair with her weapon's flat damage reduction, so she'll need Guard Echo or team support for it. Aerial Maneuvers and S/D Near Trace 4 are player-phase options.

Be aware that if you run Flared Sparrow and Deadly Miasma at the same time, any square that both Divine Vein (Flame) and Divine Vein (Haze) would be applied to simultaneously will have neither applied.

 

6 hours ago, GuiltyLove said:

Would it be a good idea to use Attuned Micaiah's fodder for Valentia Palla? I assume that the Crux skill will let her hit four times. I don't know if the A Boost skill will be good on her, though.

While Atk/Res Crux is currently best-in-slot for Echoes Palla, and Fireflood Boost 3 is decent, using Attuned Micaiah on Echoes Palla means passing up on a copy of Far Trace Echo, which is by far the hardest skill to come by that she has, as it is virtually guaranteed to never be made available from any other unit.

If you don't mind passing up on copy of Far Trace Echo, then it's fine, but I'd personally wait for another source of Atk/Res Crux to be released.

 

5 minutes ago, Flying Shogi said:

Looking to build Caeda in the upcoming HoF. Not looking to use her in any particular mode so I'm mainly aiming to maximize damage. I usually lean towards a dual phase build but the player phase skills are tempting. Are there other skills she would want? 

Legendary Caeda [+Spd / +Atk]
Nabata Lance+ [Spd] / Kumo Naginata
[Assist]
No Quarter / Ruptured Sky
Atk/Spd Prime 4 / Flared Sparrow / Atk/Spd Clash 4
Aerial Maneuvers / Flow Desperation / Potent 4 / Guard Bearing 4
S/D Rein Snap

Ruptured Sky is listed here because even if No Quarter is both stronger and harder to get, Caeda doesn't have the Slaying effect on her default weapon and will have trouble actually using No Quarter without support.

Atk/Spd Prime 4 is the best dual-phase skill in her A slot as long as you can reliably get 4 non-stat Bonuses on her to get the full effect. Flared Sparrow is stronger if you only care about player phase, but it also has wider distribution and its tier-3 prerequisite is widely accessible. Atk/Spd Clash 4 nullifies stat penalties and doesn't get completely screwed over by the new units that can remove non-stat Bonuses, but you lose out on the Distant Counter effect from Atk/Spd Prime 4.

The B skill depends on what you want to focus on. Aerial Maneuvers and Flow Desperation are for player phase and give her the Desperation effect to make up for not having any damage reduction on her weapon. However, this makes it even harder for her to activate her Special. Potent 4 and Guard Bearing 4 give her damage reduction and function on both phases. Note that Potent 4 has the risk of activating No Quarter on a Potent Follow 40% attack, and the damage multiplier from Potent Follow is also applied to the Special damage, which can result in a wasted Special activation.

I do not recommend running Deadly Miasma on Caeda because her weapon has Binding Necklace's effect on it, which relies on the opponent having stat bonuses to steal.

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14 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Spring Maria [+Spd]
Axe of Devotion+ [Spd]
[Assist]
No Quarter
Earthwind Boost 3 / Atk/Spd Prime 4 / Atk/Def Prime 4 / Spd/Def Clash 4 / Spd/Def Catch 4 / Flared Sparrow
Wyvern Rift / Potent 4 / Guard Bearing 4 / Aerial Maneuvers / S/D Near Trace 4
S/D Rein Snap / Deadly Miasma

Spring Maria typically wants to run Spd/Def in the A slot, but Atk/Def and Atk/Spd are still usable if the Spd/Def version doesn't exist or if you don't think you need the extra Spd or Def.

Prime 4 is theoretically the best option for the A slot for a Distant Counter build, but the Spd/Def version doesn't exist yet. Boost 4 and Clash 4 are the best options if you are running a melee-only build or if you're willing to give up the Sacred Seal slot to run Distant Counter (M). Which one you pick depends on which secondary effect is more important to you, though if you're planning on running Guard Echo, it will overlap with Boost 4.

Catch 4 gives a few more points of stats, whereas Flared Sparrow sacrifices the enemy phase for a stronger player phase.

 

Wyvern Rift is the strongest B skill overall, but unlike Potent 4 and Guard Bearing 4, it lacks the percentage damage reduction to pair with her weapon's flat damage reduction, so she'll need Guard Echo or team support for it. Aerial Maneuvers and S/D Near Trace 4 are player-phase options.

Be aware that if you run Flared Sparrow and Deadly Miasma at the same time, any square that both Divine Vein (Flame) and Divine Vein (Haze) would be applied to simultaneously will have neither applied.

 

While Atk/Res Crux is currently best-in-slot for Echoes Palla, and Fireflood Boost 3 is decent, using Attuned Micaiah on Echoes Palla means passing up on a copy of Far Trace Echo, which is by far the hardest skill to come by that she has, as it is virtually guaranteed to never be made available from any other unit.

If you don't mind passing up on copy of Far Trace Echo, then it's fine, but I'd personally wait for another source of Atk/Res Crux to be released.

Thanks. I will aim for Boost 4 or Clash 4, then. I don't have too many units who give bonuses, so Prime 4 might be hard to use. Since I already have Guard Bearing 4, I will look for Potent 4 or Wyvern Rift. As for Far Trace Echo, that's a good point. I will find someone else for that skill!

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On 6/17/2024 at 5:35 PM, Ice Dragon said:

Potent 4 and Guard Bearing 4 give her damage reduction and function on both phases. Note that Potent 4 has the risk of activating No Quarter on a Potent Follow 40% attack, and the damage multiplier from Potent Follow is also applied to the Special damage, which can result in a wasted Special activation.

Thanks for pointing this out. Assuming she isn't hit with 2 consecutive hits or a follow attack, Potent Follow will unfortunately nerf No Quarter's damage output since she doesn't have the Slaying effect in her kit.

ex1: Vantage active: Counterattack 1 (CD3 -> CD2) -> Enemy attack (CD2 -> CD1) -> Counterattack 2 (Special ready) -> Potent Follow(NQ activates)   

ex2: No Vantage: Enemy attack (CD3 -> CD2) -> Counterattack 1 (CD2 -> CD1) -> Counterattack 2 (Special ready) -> Potent Follow(NQ activates)     

Luckily this can be worked around by giving her Marth's ring.

On 6/17/2024 at 5:35 PM, Ice Dragon said:

I do not recommend running Deadly Miasma on Caeda because her weapon has Binding Necklace's effect on it, which relies on the opponent having stat bonuses to steal.

Thanks for catching this.

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So, how bonkers is the healing on Summer Hrid's "Prince's Lance" if he has Aether equipped? Aether already heals by half the damage dealt when it activates, and it has a cooldown count of 5. "...and also, if unit deals damage to foe using a Special during combat, restores a percentage of unit's max HP = 10 + unit's max Special  cooldown count value x 20 (max 100%; triggers even if 0 damage is dealt)." So, before doing the math, I thought that this was just a good idea. However... (5+10=15) x 20 = 300. But since it caps off at 100%, doesn't this basically mean that any special would do the trick? I wanted to run an experiment to see which special would be the most effective on him (leaning towards Ignis since he has crazy def. Mine's def is currently at 51) but it looks like it doesn't matter that much for the purpose of reaching that 100% healing cap?

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58 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

So, how bonkers is the healing on Summer Hrid's "Prince's Lance" if he has Aether equipped? Aether already heals by half the damage dealt when it activates, and it has a cooldown count of 5. "...and also, if unit deals damage to foe using a Special during combat, restores a percentage of unit's max HP = 10 + unit's max Special  cooldown count value x 20 (max 100%; triggers even if 0 damage is dealt)." So, before doing the math, I thought that this was just a good idea. However... (5+10=15) x 20 = 300. But since it caps off at 100%, doesn't this basically mean that any special would do the trick? I wanted to run an experiment to see which special would be the most effective on him (leaning towards Ignis since he has crazy def. Mine's def is currently at 51) but it looks like it doesn't matter that much for the purpose of reaching that 100% healing cap?

You have the order of operations wrong. It's [10 + 4 × 20]% = [10 + 80]% = 90% with Aether.

Additionally, the cooldown of Aether is only 4 due to the weapon's slaying effect, so 90% is the soft cap on the weapon's effect since Hrid doesn't have access any of the few skills that increase a Special's max cooldown.

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11 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

You have the order of operations wrong. It's [10 + 4 × 20]% = [10 + 80]% = 90% with Aether.

Additionally, the cooldown of Aether is only 4 due to the weapon's slaying effect, so 90% is the soft cap on the weapon's effect since Hrid doesn't have access any of the few skills that increase a Special's max cooldown.

Oh? So, is that how it works according to the wording "unit's max Special cooldown?" I thought it meant the Special's max cooldown before slaying effects and such were taken into account. I'm also confused about the wording of "% = 10+x" (where x = max Special cooldown count) being listed first, then followed by "x20," which would seem to mean that the multiplication by 20 happens after you add the max Special cooldown count to 10. Did they just not explain it very well in the description, or am I missing something? (I'd rather have a firm understanding of how to properly calculate this and how to decode the wording here than to just take the correction and run since then I'm not really learning from it.)

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3 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Oh? So, is that how it works according to the wording "unit's max Special cooldown?" I thought it meant the Special's max cooldown before slaying effects and such were taken into account. I'm also confused about the wording of "% = 10+x" (where x = max Special cooldown count) being listed first, then followed by "x20," which would seem to mean that the multiplication by 20 happens after you add the max Special cooldown count to 10. Did they just not explain it very well in the description, or am I missing something? (I'd rather have a firm understanding of how to properly calculate this and how to decode the wording here than to just take the correction and run since then I'm not really learning from it.)

"Max Special cooldown" refers to the value that the cooldown returns to immediately after the Special activates, which includes all effects that lower or raise that value when viewed on the unit's stat screen (on the stat screen itself, not during skill selection) or on the top ribbon on the map screen by tapping on the skill. For example, Aether + Slaying weapon + Emblem Marth would have a max Special cooldown of 3, whereas Aether + Lightning Breath would have a max Special cooldown of 6.

Notably, outside of calculations, you'll see this wording on skills that increase a unit's current Special cooldown (like the Pulse Tie skills) to indicate that the effect cannot cause the cooldown to go above the maximum cooldown, which would only make sense when referring to the max cooldown after accounting for modifiers. This is also used on skills with the Time's Pulse effect, which only activates when the cooldown is at maximum and also wouldn't make sense if it didn't include modifiers.

 

Mathematical calculations in skill descriptions aren't always clear in English due to how lengthy some of the text names of the values get, but they still obey order of operations. In cases where the calculations are performed sequentially instead of following order of operations, there will be a comma in between the operations indicating to finish all of the calculations in front of the comma before continuing on.

From Gambit 4's description, noting the comma in the bolded part for multiplication occurring last:

Inflicts Spd/Def-4 on foe during combat, and also, if unit's or foe's attack can trigger unit's Special, deals damage during combat = unit's max Special cooldown count value - 2, × 5 (min 0; max 15; excluding area-of-effect Specials) and reduces damage from attacks during combat and from area-of-effect Specials (excluding Røkkr area-of-effect Specials) by percentage = unit's max Special cooldown count value × 10 (max 50%).

Also from Brave Eirika's Moonlight Bangle's description. The comma isn't necessary, but I believe all calculations that have addition or subtraction last will still have the comma (see Love of Nerthuz and Caladbolg for more recent examples):

Neutralizes effects that inflict "Special cooldown charge -X" on unit during combat. Deals damage = X% of foe's Def when Special triggers (X = unit's max Special cooldown count value × 10, + 20).

Contrast with Duo Gullveig's Golden Sunlight's description, which has no comma and where it is clear that order of operations should be followed since the result of calculating sequentially would always exceed the maximum:

If unit initiates combat or if foe's HP ≥ 75% at start of combat, grants bonus to unit's Atk/Spd/Def/Res = 5 + number of foes within 3 rows or 3 columns centered on unit × 3 (max 14; treated as 14 starting in unit's second combat in player phase and enemy phase), deals damage = 20% of unit's Spd (excluding area-of-effect Specials), and reduces the percentage of foe's non-Special "reduce damage by X%" skills by 50% during combat (excluding area-of-effect Specials).

Cases like Golden Sunlight and Prince's Lance seem to be more recent due to the fact that more skill descriptions are lumping in their flat stat boosts and conditional stat boosts into a single effect instead of splitting them up.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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@Ice Dragon

I see! Thanks for breaking that down so thoroughly! I understand how they code their calculations in their descriptions now (though I wish they'd just write it in the order they want the calculations to be done in since it's already in a sentence format instead of an equation. Better yet, I wish they'd write it as a mathematical expression and only include description where clarification is needed.)

Anyway, as I said, that was really helpful! Thank you!

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firestorm boost or atk/spd prime for L!Shiida? originally thought of grabbing the second, but ended up grabbing the first and she’s been doing well with it + distant counter seal in HoF.

i don’t plan to use her in a particular mode, she also has no quarter, spd/def snap and guard bearing 4. thoughts? thanks!

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13 minutes ago, Karuu30 said:

firestorm boost or atk/spd prime for L!Shiida? originally thought of grabbing the second, but ended up grabbing the first and she’s been doing well with it + distant counter seal in HoF.

i don’t plan to use her in a particular mode, she also has no quarter, spd/def snap and guard bearing 4. thoughts? thanks!

It depends on whether or not you have teammates capable of giving Caeda the 4 non-stat Bonuses necessary to fully activate Prime 4.

It's worth noting that Firestorm Boost 3 is strictly better than Atk/Spd Prime 4 if you can only get 3 non-stat Bonuses, so you need all 4 Bonuses for Prime 4 to be worth it.

 

EDIT: If you aren't planning on investing too much more into her, you probably shouldn't need to worry about how hard it is to get each skill. But if you are planning on continuing to invest resources into her, it's also worth noting that Atk/Spd Prime 4 is harder to get than Firestorm Boost 3 due to the fact that there are currently no easy sources of the prerequisite Atk/Spd Prime 3.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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If I Engage an Emblem Hero to another hero's special and lock the team he is in, can I engage the same Emblem to another unit and still use the locked team's unit with the engaged special or does it lose the effect even with the team locked?

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1 hour ago, Rinco said:

If I Engage an Emblem Hero to another hero's special and lock the team he is in, can I engage the same Emblem to another unit and still use the locked team's unit with the engaged special or does it lose the effect even with the team locked?

Yep! Emblem Engages work just like Sacred Seals, so you can lock them into a team, and then switch Engages right afterwards, but the locked team will still have it. Very useful for Arena Assault, and I think Aether Raids too.

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